What can the Pats learn from Indy.

[PatsMyBoyz!]

Hold on to as much of your own talent as possible.

What the Pats are beginning to experience is the result of losing

some of their talented players thru free agency, retirement, and

just being too old to play effectively any longer.

We stayed on top for a long time because we retained most of our good

players. We did not lose a whole bunch of players at once like the

other Super Bowl winners but now our losses are starting to

accumulate.

I think you hit upon one big advantage,maybe the biggest advantage,the Colts (Manning) had over the Pats(Brady),and that is having the luxury of a consistent team that's continued to play and develop together as time went on. Some of our real core,cohesive guys are beginning to age and/or fall to injury,and obviously we've made a lot of changes.
I'm not saying the Pats made bad decisions;I'm saying the Colts,especially Manning,had that particular advantage over us this year,an advantage which imo is huge. That said,I think the Pats will acheive that rhythm again with a lot of the newly acquired players we have in place right now,plus we aren't looking forward to cap hell like they are.
I also think the Pats already realize how important staying together is to winning games;they just won't overpay.

 

[PatsMyBoyz!]

1) Yes.
2) Yes.
3) Yes.... and God no. I will explain further below.
4) Yes.
5) Yes.

The Colt defensive improvement was a complete fallacy. I can assure you that if the Colts faced a stretch of teams like NY, SD, NE, NO the Colts would have averaged letting up 24+ points per game. Indy faced an intellectually neutered team in KC, a tream devoid of offensive playmakers in Balt, a team that lost the two players that had the most success in the first half for most of the second half against NE and a team that they were tailor-made to stop in Chicago.

What Indy accomplished this year is truly special because it really was a 20:1 shot, at best, for everything to fall completely into place for them. They still are a team that cannot stop a decent offense and can be run over by a good one. SD would have put up no less than 30 points on them. Probably around 40. I am not exaggerating or complaining, I am just saying it how I see it.

As muich as I hate them, I respect Pitt's run last year far more than Indy's because Pitt actually faced some quality opposition. Cincy of last year was better than every team Indy faced save for NE. Same for Seattle and last year's Indy team was very good as well.

I am not saying that Indy is not a very good team. They are a great, great offense, that after rolling their dice for the past several years finally came up snake eyes. That doesn't change the fact that, unless they change their dynamic, they will need dozens of things to fall into place for another improbable SB run.

Re the Colts defense,I didn't buy it either but this is an interesting stat I caught on ESPN: a total of four teams completely abandoned their run game against the Colts. I find that interesting because like you,I still find it so hard to believe that defense suddenly morphed from bottom-feeders into the Steel Curtain. Maybe that's the biggest thing the Pats should try and learn from the Colts lol-"how'd you do that?".

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

There's nothing to learn. Both teams are competitive every year and have a chance. Why did Indy beat us ? They played well in the second half and got every break you could dream of. But they were there and on the field. I probably sound stupid but we win that game 19 times out of 20. They made it to the AFCCG and got the 1 out of 20 (I'm talking about 1/20 after we're up 20-3).

There's no secret, be good every year, be in the playoffs and maybe the coin will flip in your direction.

I agree. I feel New England is a far superior team as witness in that first half and the team just ran out of gas. They didn't have the personnel to matchup.

get homefield and the Pats will be back on top.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I agree. I feel New England is a far superior team as witness in that first half and the team just ran out of gas. They didn't have the personnel to matchup.

And even with that, the Colts still needed about 4 calls all to go their way to "pull it out".

BASTARD.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

And even with that, the Colts still needed about 4 calls all to go their way to "pull it out".

BASTARD.

Believe me I know, I'm bitter. And I imagine the players and coaches are and they'll be on a mission to get to the big game.

 

[Patriot Missile]

And even with that, the Colts still needed about 4 calls all to go their way to "pull it out".

BASTARD.

I'm still disturbed by those calls. I thought I would be ok with them,but I'm not. Injuries and bad calls. Crappy way to end a great season. San Diego must be bitter too. What a great team they were.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Believe me I know, I'm bitter. And I imagine the players and coaches are and they'll be on a mission to get to the big game.

I'm sure they are. Seriously, I will NEVER get over it. It'll get WAY better with time but it will never go away. When I turned out the lights last night all I could see in my head was Caldwell being pushed in the end zone before the ball was there, the ensuing first and goal on the one and what a difference 7 points would have made there instead of 3.

:bricks:

If it's still burning in us so bad, imagine how Tommy, Tedy and Rodney feel . . .

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I'm sure they are. Seriously, I will NEVER get over it. It'll get WAY better with time but it will never go away. When I turned out the lights last night all I could see in my head was Caldwell being pushed in the end zone before the ball was there, the ensuing first and goal on the one and what a difference 7 points would have made there instead of 3.

:bricks:

If it's still burning in us so bad, imagine how Tommy, Tedy and Rodney feel . . .

Watching that on NFL replay shortly after the Hobbs phantom call burns everybody. And Caldwell dropping the ball.

 

[PatsMyBoyz!]

I agree. I feel New England is a far superior team as witness in that first half and the team just ran out of gas. They didn't have the personnel to matchup.

get homefield and the Pats will be back on top.

Exactly right. There's nothing the Pats need to learn from the Colts,the Colts simply had 2 or 3 advantages this year: time together as a team,HFA, and the league pulling for them.The biggest advantage of all is that they studied how the Pats do things and learned from us,not the other way around.
Frauds.

 

[PatsMyBoyz!]

I'm sure they are. Seriously, I will NEVER get over it. It'll get WAY better with time but it will never go away. When I turned out the lights last night all I could see in my head was Caldwell being pushed in the end zone before the ball was there, the ensuing first and goal on the one and what a difference 7 points would have made there instead of 3.

:bricks:

If it's still burning in us so bad, imagine how Tommy, Tedy and Rodney feel . . .

The Pats would never say much publicly,but you know inside they're sick about it. It's been this way for years,too. Maybe the good thing to come out of all of this is that the league/refs will finally stop kissing their azzes and consider the SB goal a done deal.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

The Pats would never say much publicly,but you know inside they're sick about it. It's been this way for years,too. Maybe the good thing to come out of all of this is that the league/refs will finally stop kissing their azzes and consider the SB goal a done deal.

The killer is Polian whines about defensive PI then the Colts don't get called for it on an obvious call :bricks:

 

[PatsMyBoyz!]

The killer is Polian whines about defensive PI then the Colts don't get called for it on an obvious call :bricks:

I wonder if Bears fans noticed the (one) holding call (singular) during garbage time Sunday night.

 

[RayClay]

Re the Colts defense,I didn't buy it either but this is an interesting stat I caught on ESPN: a total of four teams completely abandoned their run game against the Colts. I find that interesting because like you,I still find it so hard to believe that defense suddenly morphed from bottom-feeders into the Steel Curtain. Maybe that's the biggest thing the Pats should try and learn from the Colts lol-"how'd you do that?".

Scheme to cover that one weakness. Pats secondary last year is a prime example. If you key on one aspect, (run for them, long pass for us) any defense can stop it.

It's up to the offenses to change and sometimes they are so prepared to exploit that weakness they don't find the hole you leave open.

 

[RayClay]

I think you hit upon one big advantage,maybe the biggest advantage,the Colts (Manning) had over the Pats(Brady),and that is having the luxury of a consistent team that's continued to play and develop together as time went on. Some of our real core,cohesive guys are beginning to age and/or fall to injury,and obviously we've made a lot of changes.
I'm not saying the Pats made bad decisions;I'm saying the Colts,especially Manning,had that particular advantage over us this year,an advantage which imo is huge. That said,I think the Pats will acheive that rhythm again with a lot of the newly acquired players we have in place right now,plus we aren't looking forward to cap hell like they are.
I also think the Pats already realize how important staying together is to winning games;they just won't overpay.

Our playmakers on defense are old or gone. Only the DLine is young and of superior talent.

Mcginest is gone, Bruschi on the downside and Vrabel not far away if he doesn't get help.

If Rodney's back, it won't be for long and Artrell is an older vet too.

The DLine will lead the way while we transition to new leaders.

 

[sieglo]

Pats need a defensive makeover a la 2003 and they need one good receiver. Then they'll be unstoppable.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Hire a top Offensive Coordinator who will work wwll with Brady and adjust during the game, especially at half time.

We each have our strengths and weaknesses. The biggest pluses for Indy are: OC and receivers.

mark

We already have the top offensive coordinator raised in the system. BB has no desire to change to an unfamiliar outside coordinator or system.

Indy learned a lot from us about playing defense with gap discipline and taking what the opposition gives you on offense.

What we hopefully learned from Indy and others this season is you do need sufficiently talented receivers defenses will respect sufficiently to double and/or or leave their safeties back in coverage to favoarably skewer the balance in the matchup battle as well open up the running game so you can move the chains on third down and control TOP so your defense doesn't get gassed.

Individual game plans let alone philosophical changes in overall approach aren't decided by OC's or in a vacuum. Dungy and probably Moore finally sat Peyton down and convinced him that being a successful championship QB was going to require other than a lazer rocket arm. We saw the seeds of that change last season but Manning wasn't yet ready to face down a defense like Pittsburgh's on terms that even now remain just a little foreign and uncomfortable to him. Against a Chiefs and Ravens and Bears offense, each of which folded like a cheap shirt, he grew increasingly just comfortable enough.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Hire a top Offensive Coordinator

Saying we need a new OC is the same as saying Belichick doesn't know what he's doing and/or he scared to replace as assistant.

 

[Oswlek]

Scheme to cover that one weakness. Pats secondary last year is a prime example. If you key on one aspect, (run for them, long pass for us) any defense can stop it.

It's up to the offenses to change and sometimes they are so prepared to exploit that weakness they don't find the hole you leave open.

Which is precisely what happened against KC and Balitmore.

Against NE, the loss of Dillon and Faulk as well as Maroney's ineffectiveness forced them to be a predictible pass offense. Add either of those guys back in and Indy never has the chance to make their drive at the end.

Chicago was a different animal. Indy's D in the playoffs was all about stopping the run and the long ball. That is all Chicago knows how to do. Their passing offense absent the long toss is abysmal.

I am not saying that Indy didn't deserve to win the SB. In fact, sometimes it makes it sweeter when you know that you overcame long odds to pull something off. The luster of the 2001 SB will never go away for me precisely because of this.

But it is still the truth that Indy will need a perfect combination of opposition quality and health to have any chance of winning another SB as they are currently constituted.

 

[mgteich]

I have called many things because of my uwavering support for patriot FO decisions. However, In Bill We Trust should not be the answer to all discussions, with the discussions revolving about why bb is right to do what he does.

I personally believe that Belichick is the best coach in the history of the merged NFL. I also believe that the Krafts are the best owners, and that Scotty is the best executive (or Jonathan is depending on how you define your categories).

It is not a matter of Belichick not knowing what he is doing, nor is it a matter of him being scared.

Maybe the FO values Josh so much that they promoted him to prevented soemone else from scoping him up as a OC elsewhere. I understand that there are tradeoffs. I also believe that Brady is NOT the best playcaller in the league. He needs an OC, a quarterback coach and a veteran quarterback to work with. This is not a knock on Brady, or a deficiency in any way. I personally don't think that we have enough "gravitas", enough coaches, enough talent on the offensive coaching side of the ball. We are at least one veteran coach short. Maybe we just need a veteran assistant OC to help out, call the plays and to help make adjustments at halftime.

I have no question in my mind that the braintrust will review this issue in depth and make the best decision for the team. Jonathan, Bill and Scotty will work this out.

My bottom line is I think that 2nd half playcalling, and 2nd half adjustments have been decidedly below what the FO has a right to expect from the OC position. I don't look at this evaluation any different than evaluating production from the wide receiver position. Do you disagree with this analysis of OC performance?

Saying we need a new OC is the same as saying Belichick doesn't know what he's doing and/or he scared to replace as assistant.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I think if you take a step back and look at it in hindsight on a game by game basis you will find that lack of talent, unfamiliarity with WR's, inconsistent player availability, and uneven execution - and not the game plan or failure to adjust which those situations directly impacted an ability to - were at the root of the problem in 2006. And I firmly believe that 12-4 and three minutes from a 19th game in Miami under the circumstances was a moral victory for the coaches and the system so to speak.