A little early, but: should the Patriots try to re-sign Wes Welker?

[RobertWeathers]

On the first point, maybe I'm missing how Woodhead is different than any other player on the roster? If another team wants to pay more than the Pats, then usually that player will be gone.

For cost containment, financial planning and overall value to your team reasons, there are some players that you let test the market and some you don't. For example, you don't let Gronk, AH, Brady, Wilfork, Mankins test the market because they are high-value players. Guys like Woody and Arrington you do.

On the second point, I think some people here are definitely underrating Welker. And Woodhead, to a lesser extent. No question. The two issues of payment are really the same thing, actually.

Perhaps people are underrating WW and they don't know what they are talking about.

But I disagree with your point. I view wanting to pay someone what they are worth and can't (cap reasons) and not wanting to pay someone because their is a delta in the assessment of value b/t/w the two sides (Vrabel, BJGE, etc) are different and how they are handled are different (traded, cut) respectfully let the player shop themselves in FA or RFA.

 

[Ring 6]

I think some of us are secrectly putting Wes Welker in Calvin Johnson's territory!! I like Wes too but I dont think the Patriots is going to give a WR on the wrong side of 30 a four year contract. Yes Wes have Great short area quickness but that's all folks. A WR with different skill sets adds a dimension that Wes doesn't have.

We don't need a different dimension. Why would you change the best offense in the NFL, and arguably since 2007 the best in NFL history. Aside from Logan Mankins, the only 2 constants are Brady and Welker.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Looking at the big picture, the wide receiver position is the greater need at this point in time based upon New England Patriots currently under contract for the 2013 NFL Season.

Running Backs under contract:

Ridley
Vereen
Bolden
Demps
Larsen (fullback)

Wide Receivers under contract:

Lloyd
Slater (wide receiver in designation only)

Agree 100%. It scares the crap out of me. Unless I'm missing something I really don't think that they can franchise WW if they only have $14m in 2013 available cap space thus signing Edelman and yes....drafting a WR is a priority

 

[Ring 6]

The Patriots have numbers for values at each position. I can't tell you a precise number that's overpaying, because I don't have their books. However, Woodead is essentially the new Faulk, albeit with fewer snaps, so we've at least got a starting point.

I think conceptually you are kind of right here, but there certainly isn't a book with dollars per position. That is way, way too stringent to effectively implement. And of course, certain players throw that out, as we have seen with Brady, Mankins, Moss to name a few who clearly earned a lot more than the team had historically paid for their position.

 

[ATippett56]

Agree 100%. It scares the crap out of me. Unless I'm missing something I really don't think that they can franchise WW if they only have $14m in 2013 available cap space thus signing Edelman and yes....drafting a WR is a priority

Furthermore, I assume the New England Patriots retain the rights of fullback Tony Fiammetta since he is still listed on the reserve/exempt list.

Official Website of the New England Patriots | Team - Players

 

[ATippett56]

Agree 100%. It scares the crap out of me. Unless I'm missing something I really don't think that they can franchise WW if they only have $14m in 2013 available cap space thus signing Edelman and yes....drafting a WR is a priority

In terms of offensive priorities for the New England Patriots applicable to the 2013 NFL Season with regard to unrestricted free agency:

Welker (the straw that stirs the drink in the pass offense)
Edelman (wide receiver/primary punt returner/special teams contributor)
Woodhead (primary third down halfback)
Vollmer (chronic back issues are a major concern)

I trust the New England Patriots organization's ability to select and develop an offensive tackle in the 2013 NFL Draft far more than wide receiver.

 

[aluminum seats]

For cost containment, financial planning and overall value to your team reasons, there are some players that you let test the market and some you don't. For example, you don't let Gronk, AH, Brady, Wilfork, Mankins test the market because they are high-value players. Guys like Woody and Arrington you do.



Perhaps people are underrating WW and they don't know what they are talking about.

But I disagree with your point. I view wanting to pay someone what they are worth and can't (cap reasons) and not wanting to pay someone because their is a delta in the assessment of value b/t/w the two sides (Vrabel, BJGE, etc) are different and how they are handled are different (traded, cut) respectfully let the player shop themselves in FA or RFA.

Fair enough on the first point. I would say that's something the Pats have gotten better at over the years--if they had been proactive with Branch back in the day, they probably would have beaten the Colts and won another Super Bowl that year.

The second point might just be a question of semantics. Doesn't seem worth quibbling about, at any rate.

 

[RobertWeathers]

In terms of offensive priorities for the New England Patriots applicable to the 2013 NFL Season with regard to unrestricted free agency:

Welker (the straw that stirs the drink in the pass offense)
Edelman (wide receiver/primary punt returner/special teams contributor)
Woodhead (primary third down halfback)
Vollmer (chronic back issues are a major concern)

I trust the New England Patriots organization's ability to select and develop an offensive tackle in the 2013 NFL Draft far more than wide receiver.

I'd put Vollmer over Woody and suggest that a 100% healthy Gronk & AH would have been the straws that stir the offense which is why they paid them as such, but needed to rely on WW more than I think they wanted to.

 

[ATippett56]

I'd put Vollmer over Woody and suggest that a 100% healthy Gronk & AH would have been the straws that stir the offense which is why they paid them as such, but needed to rely on WW more than I think they wanted to.

Wes Welker has out performed Hernandez and Gronkowski in each of the last three seasons in terms of pass receptions and pass receiving yards. Wes Welker also has missed only four regular season games in his entire career.

 

[ATippett56]

I'd put Vollmer over Woody.

I disagree.

Procedure on ailing back affecting Patriots’ Sebastian Vollmer | ProFootballTalk

Back ailment sidelines Patriots lineman Vollmer - The Boston Globe

 

[RobertWeathers]

Wes Welker has out performed Hernandez and Gronkowski in each of the last three seasons in terms of pass receptions and pass receiving yards. Wes Welker also has missed only four regular season games in his entire career.

All true however I think 2011 showed that the Pats are just as interested in throwing to Gronk and AH as they are to WW.

In terms of stats, Gronk has averaged more YPC and has almost twice as many TDs as WW which tells you that the team would rather see the ball in Gronk's hands more than WW because of his big-play ability...

 

[JackBauer]

With Vereen, Demps, Ridley and Bolden already slated to be in the 2013 backfield? If he wants more than what the Pats value him for then he will be gone.

Given that Woodhead's better than everyone on that list not named Ridley, yes.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I disagree.

Procedure on ailing back affecting Patriots’ Sebastian Vollmer | ProFootballTalk

Back ailment sidelines Patriots lineman Vollmer - The Boston Globe

I'm well aware of Seabass's back woes. However as long as they can correct his issue and it is not degenerative, he is a potential Pro-Bowl RT whose value to the team is superior to Woody's where at the position is a tremendous amount of depth.

For any reason if they do let Seabass walk (health or $$), that doesn't necessarily mean that he is a lower priority signing. It means that they can't or won't bring him back.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Fair enough on the first point. I would say that's something the Pats have gotten better at over the years--if they had been proactive with Branch back in the day, they probably would have beaten the Colts and won another Super Bowl that year.

Sadly, you are spot on in both comments...

The second point might just be a question of semantics. Doesn't seem worth quibbling about, at any rate.

Yep thats cool.

 

[ATippett56]

All true however I think 2011 showed that the Pats are just as interested in throwing to Gronk and AH as they are to WW.

Oh really?

Wes Welker led the NFL in receptions during the 2011 NFL Season.

Wes Welker NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

 

[Creative Username]

We should be able to re-sign Welker

In order for this team to make a run at the Superbowl for years to come, we need a stable offense, run by a happy Tom Brady. A happy Tom Brady needs Wes Welker. He moves the chains better than anyone and he's the go-to guy on third down when we need a conversion (although you could argue Woodhead has been amazingly clutch for us in 3rd and forever situations multiple times this year). He had 118 catches for 1351 yards and 6 TDs for a team with 5 receivers who had over 40 catches, (Welker, Gronk, AHern, Lloyd and Woody) which is amazing production taking into account how much TB spreads the ball around. Plus, after posting his record-breaking 6th season with 100+ catches and passing Michael Irvin for career receptions (as a measure of his greatness) the league pays him no mind. You hear about Cutler and Marshall's great chemistry, and Wayne's revival in Indy with Andrew Luck, and Megatron's record breaking season. All of these guys have made Welker's season seem like small potatoes, and it doesn't help that he's done it for the past five years. This kind of output is expected, so it's not a huge deal. If Welker's looking for huge money, and tries to find it outside of NE, I doubt he'll have much success just because of the recognition that no one's giving him. He puts up the numbers year after year, and does so quietly. In the end, that might be best for us.

I'm thinking 3-4 years 28-36M

 

[RobertWeathers]

Oh really?

Wes Welker led the NFL in receptions during the 2011 NFL Season.

Wes Welker NFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

They are just as interested in throwing to AH and Gronk as both players caught 79 and 90 balls respectfully and were highly productive. If they weren't, then they wouldn't have received big-money extensions or given major roles in the offense. I didn't say they were more productive although you can argue that Gronk was in 2011.

 

[ATippett56]

For any reason if they do let Seabass walk (health or $$), that doesn't necessarily mean that he is a lower priority signing. It means that they can't or won't bring him back.

Provided the New England Patriots re-sign Welker and Edelman, the New England Patriots do not have overwhelming needs on offense with regard to the 2013 NFL Draft aside from potentially an offensive tackle (who has experience in college playing both left tackle and right tackle).

The following denotes offensive players currently contract for the 2013 NFL Season:

Quarterbacks

Brady
Mallett

Halfbacks

Ridley
Vereen
Bolden
Demps (currently on Injured Reserve)

Fullbacks

Larsen (currently on Injured Reserve)
Fiammetta (currently on Reserve/Exempt)

Tight Ends

Gronkowski
Hernandez
Fells
Ballard (currently on PUP)
Herman (currently on Injured Reserve)
Hoomanawanui (RFA)

Wide Receivers

Lloyd
Slater

Offensive Tackles

Solder
Cannon
Zusevics
Hix (currently on Injured Reserve)

Offensive Guards

Mankins
Connolly

Offensive Centers

Wendell
McDonald

 

[supafly]

What are they?

What are the alternatives to parting with Talib, you ask?

There are certainly plenty of possibilities. They could draft another CB or even 2 in the upcoming draft. They could seek out a more cap friendly free agent CB to pair outside with Dennard. They could essentially even make a trade if it came down to it (admittedly not likely).

They could draft a safety or 2 in the deep safety class of the 2013 draft and pair him up with McCourty. They could move McCourty back to CB and pair the newly drafted safety up with anyone of Wilson, Gregory, or even an additional safety who isn't even on the team yet. They can acquire another safety via the free agency route.

They could even retain Arrington and have him as a starter capable player in a pinch, although we'd all rather see him in the slot of course.

They can even (gasp) try and utilize their #33rd overall pick in the 2011 draft in Ras-I-Dowling if they feel an additional year may be beneficial to his growth.

We've certainly made due with worse in the past, and although I am not really wanting to part with Talib, if the price isn't right you've got to consider the alternatives...and I would imagine that they will certainly do so in every way possible should they not be able to reach a fair deal.

Stating that there are not alternatives is incorrect, there certainly are.

The defense improved to the point where they allowed approx.17 pts per game in the month of December, yet Aqib Talib didn't even play 50% of those reps in this past month. He played vs MIA, and only the first half vs HOU. He also played a little in the 49'ers game before he couldn't go anymore IIRC. Either way, he didn't play all that much this month and yet they somehow still managed.

I am not meaning to undervalue him either, I think he'd be great for the future. I am only stating that we could get by, and that there certainly are alternatives.

 

[PatsFan2]

Provided the New England Patriots re-sign Welker and Edelman, the New England Patriots do not have overwhelming needs on offense with regard to the 2013 NFL Draft aside from potentially an offensive tackle (who has experience in college playing both left tackle and right tackle).

How about WR who can consistently threaten the deep part of the field or a consistent outside the numbers Threat? Brandon Lloyd is a complementary WR at best...in 2013 I woudn't feel comfortable with him alone as our lone outside threat. The Pats Offense do most of their damage over the middle, we need to mix it up more on the outsides...Our Offense is Very Good but Not complete. As good we are inside the numbes some Teams like Greenbay -Atlanta and the Saints are Great outside the numbers.