If Brady expects to be "considered" the best.....

[fgssand]

As far as didn't have much time I guess he didn't...

Go home little seachicken. Come back when you can bring something intelligent to the discussion.

It will be great when TB wins two more so that this discussion will never, ever have to happen again.

7 superbowls 5 wins.....GOAT

 

[BananaRepublican]

Does he have to get that 4th superbowl?

No because SB trophies are team accomplishments. Anybody counting SB trophies and applying them to a QB is just bean-counting so that they can win some water cooler arguments.

Honestly I don't know how anybody could say there was ever a better QB than Dan Marino or John Elway, just to name a couple of the later-era types. Do you realize that for years Elway was called a loser by bean-counters? That is how much of an illusion this bean-counting game is. QBs don't win SBs - their teams do. It's a team sport and a team accomplishment that includes the coaches and front office and ownership. It includes every single player that contributed along the way. That includes Drew Bledsoe my bean counting friends because without Drew we never got that one in 2001. See how it works now? That is not "Tom's SB trophy".

 

[SHOWTIME15]

It will be great when TB wins two more so that this discussion will never, ever have to happen again.

7 superbowls 5 wins.....GOAT

But all the detractors will still say montana is undefeated in SBs

 

[ALP]

But all the detractors will still say montana is undefeated in SBs

i hope down the line, 10 years after brady is done playing or so, the people who see him with such jealousy/hatred for defeating their teams so much, will loosen up a little bit and accept it

but Brady's playoffs accomplishments right now are enough to match Montana really, with another SB win, brady will be clearly ahead, with two more only idiots/homers would say otherwise


though SB's can only be taken into account so much (like every other category), and its a complete look at everything that will decide GOAT at the end of the day

 

[Fixit]

Honestly I don't know how anybody could say there was ever a better QB than Dan Marino or John Elway ...

Ugh. I don't understand how anyone can consider Elway to be a great QB.

56.9% completion, 300 touchdowns, 226 picks, 79.9 rating. Even when I watched him, I never though he was great. I thought he had a knack for sometimes digging out of the holes that he helped create. He was Eli Manning 1.0.

 

[ausbacker]

Please not this again and again and again...:bricks:

And who says what his expectations are. Certainly not a message board poster who thinks he has three years left max. We do know because he has told us so that he anticipates playing for at least 5 more seasons if not longer. And he has shown no signs of his personal window closing...any more than his team has. He's been in the hunt for league MVP for the last 3 seasons...

It's not a proper messageboard if you don't repeat the same thread item at least 6 times a year.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

i think he's already there...he didn't lose the past 2 SBs for them..and they could have easily gone the pats way

 

[BananaRepublican]

Ugh. I don't understand how anyone can consider Elway to be a great QB.

56.9% completion, 300 touchdowns, 226 picks, 79.9 rating. Even when I watched him, I never though he was great. I thought he had a knack for sometimes digging out of the holes that he helped create. He was Eli Manning 1.0.

He had to carry the team, took a lot of risks, etc. He was their only elite weapon (until TD and Rod Smith came along.)

And then things got very different, which was the point about teams and SB trophies.

It's not necessarily a bad comparison to Eli but I'd have to say that Eli has had more elite weapons at his disposal and had much better teams to play on than Elway ever did until the Shanahan era. I'd even say that Eli would never have been in a SB without playing on superior teams with elite defenses. That's the way it should be though. QBs can't carry crappy teams to the SB or they end up getting creamed like the earlier Elway.

 

[PATS16N0]

Didn't read the entire thread but...

I think when it's all said and done, when Brady retires, he will get his due.

Tom Brady will go down in history as the greatest quarterback ever.

Rivals will forgive him. NY journalists will forgive him. Opposing fans will forgive him.

There's a lot of hate for Brady because for fans of other teams, he's the quarterback from the arrogant Patriots offense that rolls into their stadium and drops 52 points on their defense and has been doing it for over a decade.
Time heals all wounds. Eventually even Steeler fans and Jet fans will admit, when he's gone, that Brady was the GOAT.

 

[Deus Irae]

He had to carry the team, took a lot of risks, etc. He was their only elite weapon (until TD and Rod Smith came along.)

And then things got very different, which was the point about teams and SB trophies.

It's not necessarily a bad comparison to Eli but I'd have to say that Eli has had more elite weapons at his disposal and had much better teams to play on than Elway ever did until the Shanahan era. I'd even say that Eli would never have been in a SB without playing on superior teams with elite defenses. That's the way it should be though. QBs can't carry crappy teams to the SB or they end up getting creamed like the earlier Elway.

What you're really doing is making excuses for Elway and Marino. It's very easy to say that other QBs were better than them. Marino's not even a top 10 QB, and Elway is only arguably one.

Here's one take, from back in 2008:

The definitive list: Top 10 NFL quarterbacks

Neither of your mentioned QBs cracks the top 10.

 

[PatriotSeven]

I'm quite happy and content with Tom simply being one of the greatest of all time, not necessarily the undisputed GOAT.

 

[BananaRepublican]

Neither of your mentioned QBs cracks the top 10.

I just dropped a couple of names to make a point about great QBs getting stiffed in the SB Derby because of incomplete or unbalanced teams.

Now you also think I'm making excuses for Elway or Marino but I think it's pretty obvious that Elway didn't suddenly get better at age 36. What he got was Shanahan, Rod Smith, TD, a great OL and a very good defense.

 

[BananaRepublican]

I'm quite happy and content with Tom simply being one of the greatest of all time, not necessarily the undisputed GOAT.

Thank you! To be mentioned as a member of this Pantheon of Great QBs is a high honor. It's as high as it gets and there is no need to push it further.

 

[Yehoodi]

Wow, we're talking about Tom Brady, and you attack the Seahawks? Awesome.

As far as "didn't have much time"...let's see...

Superbowl XLII - Drive started at their own 26 with 29 seconds left. They just needed to get in FG range. Difficult, yes. Impossible, no.

Superbowl XL - Drive started at their own 20 with 57 seconds left. Need to go 80 yds and TD to win the game.

In both scenarios, it's not like the game was completely out of reach. That's all I'm saying.

Please find me a playoff game in which a team has scored a FG with 29 seconds to go . . .

Then please find me a playoff game in which a team scored a TD with 57 secs or less to play . . .

take as much time as you need . . . if you can find one, then don't expect TB to do it . . .

 

[Deus Irae]

I just dropped a couple of names to make a point about great QBs getting stiffed in the SB Derby because of incomplete or unbalanced teams.

Now you also think I'm making excuses for Elway or Marino but I think it's pretty obvious that Elway didn't suddenly get better at age 36. What he got was Shanahan, Rod Smith, TD, a great OL and a very good defense.

You are making excuses for Elway and Marino. As far as Elway goes, it's telling that he didn't get over the hump until they took the ball out of his hands.

In an era where the NFC was dominant and the AFC was weak:

Elway missed the playoffs 6 times
Elway once had a 5-11 season
Elway has a career passer rating of just under 80
Elway is 96th in career passing percentage, which would be fine if not for...
Elway is 97th in career yards/completion

Elway's a great. He's borderline top 10. He's not competing for the top spot, though.

 

[Yehoodi]

No because SB trophies are team accomplishments. Anybody counting SB trophies and applying them to a QB is just bean-counting so that they can win some water cooler arguments.

Honestly I don't know how anybody could say there was ever a better QB than Dan Marino or John Elway, just to name a couple of the later-era types. Do you realize that for years Elway was called a loser by bean-counters? That is how much of an illusion this bean-counting game is. QBs don't win SBs - their teams do. It's a team sport and a team accomplishment that includes the coaches and front office and ownership. It includes every single player that contributed along the way. That includes Drew Bledsoe my bean counting friends because without Drew we never got that one in 2001. See how it works now? That is not "Tom's SB trophy".

you fall in the same trap as all of those who solely focus on SB as being the only "team" accomplishments . . .

what you failed to understand, or wish not to recognize, is that ALL of the QBs "stats" are team related . . . afterall passing yards and passing TDs are a team offense stats that ends up in the QBs columns, but they are no the less a team stat than a SB win . . .

for passing yards and passing TDs, you need good WRs, OL, TEs, and RBs that all work together to help the passing game, and same is true for passing TDs . . .and I would add play calling to them too, for example, do you give the ball to the RB at first and goal at the 2 or do you run 3 play action plays giving the QB the opportunity to get a passing TD . . .

even the MVP award has a team element, specifically team wins (the same win as a SB win, a win is a win) and your team needs to bascially be in the playoffs (12 out of 32 teams), look at the AP MVP race this year and Brees in 2008 on an 8-8 saints team with 5000+ yards . . . so even the more "individual" accomplishment, the MVP, has a very strong team element to it, namely, you don't win it unless you are on one of the top 12 teams . . .

so we can go around and around all day long, but the bottom line is that all of the QB stats have a team element . . .

so to single out SBs as a team stat and ignore the rest is not fully analyzing the whole picture

 

[supafly]

I think that Brady will always be mentioned as being one of the top QBs of all time, as will Peyton Manning too.

I also think that those who may be on the fence could very easily be convinced by Tom getting that elusive 4th SB ring, especially after the past 2 SB's, which unfortunately may have tainted some of the average or rival fans in a negative way.

In other words--yes he'll always be mentioned as being great, probably in the top 5 QBs of all time. Everyone will always have their own opinion, some who even think that Manning is just as good or even better; however, that elusive 4th SB ring would certainly without a doubt put him arguably as the greatest of all-time, at least until the next guy does it...

 

[BananaRepublican]

what you failed to understand, or wish not to recognize, is that ALL of the QBs "stats" are team related . . .

Thank you. This is precisely why I don't believe in the concept of GOAT.

 

[BananaRepublican]

that elusive 4th SB ring would certainly without a doubt put him arguably as the greatest of all-time.

Well, it's great to see the word "arguably" since that's exactly what it is.

 

[patsfan13]

Well, it's great to see the word "arguably" since that's exactly what it is.

Currently it is arguable that Brady is the GOAT based on his career so far.

IF Brady gets SB ting #4 it id no longer arguable.

He will have more playoff wins than any QB of the modern era, he will have a MUCH higher winning % than any Qb of the modern era.

While true that football is a team game it is also true that the QB position in professional football is the most important position in any team sport.