Salas, Rivera, Hilliard Released

[Sciz]

We should not be tossing them around for looks at guys who aren't going to hold a spot on are 46 man roster 16 games a year baring injury.

The Pats should instead toss them around for rookies who likely aren't going to hold a spot on the 46 man roster ever?

 

[1%er]

It's pretty universally understood, amongst football fans and other football people (coaches, players, etc...), that a seventh round pick is a cheaper pick than a first, second, third, fourth, fifth or sixth round pick, and that pick from a later year is a cheaper pick than a pick from an earlier year. In this case, it's reportedly a conditional 7th round pick, years down the road.

When it comes to trades for players, it doesn't get a whole lot cheaper than that.

except for Troy Brown he was an 8th. That aside you missed my point completely. We should not be giving up picks period, whether they be "rich", "expensive", "cheap" or what ever other terms are generally used amongst football fans and other football people (coaches, players, etc...) for a player simply to take a look and then cut him 2 weeks later.

Draft picks provide value on draft day. Look at this year Alfonzo Dennard and Nate Ebner could both end up being good players.

 

[Deus Irae]

except for Troy Brown he was an 8th. That aside you missed my point completely.

I didn't miss your point. I rejected your point.

 

[1%er]

The Pats should instead toss them around for rookies who likely aren't going to hold a spot on the 46 man roster ever?

2012 Alfonzo Dennard
2011 Malcom Williams (PS)
2010 Brandon Deaderick
2009 Julien Edelman

I think we have proof that isn't an accurate statement.

 

[Sciz]

2012 Alfonzo Dennard
2011 Malcom Williams (PS)
2010 Brandon Deaderick
2009 Julien Edelman

I think we have proof that isn't an accurate statement.

There were nine 7th round picks. You named 4 that did something. That means there are 5 that did nothing. So using your sample, a seventh round pick for the Patriots is more likely to accomplish nothing than to accomplish anything at all.

 

[1%er]

I didn't miss your point. I rejected your point.

That's good, your rejecting it with absolutely nothing to support doing so. Shows exactly why a man who loves football as much as you do will never do any to contribute to the sport other then continue to add to his 30K post count in patsfans.com speculating about football people who he dreams of being like.

I really thought when I first saw you in this forum you would be the most intelligent resource in this forum man was I off point.

 

[1%er]

There were nine 7th round picks. You named 4 that did something. That means there are 5 that did nothing. So using your sample, a seventh round pick for the Patriots is more likely to accomplish nothing than to accomplish anything at all.

sure but a 45% chance is much higher then what you had suggested.

 

[ausbacker]

That's good, your rejecting it with absolutely nothing to support doing so. Shows exactly why a man who loves football as much as you do will never do any to contribute to the sport other then continue to add to his 30K post count in patsfans.com speculating about football people who he dreams of being like.

I really thought when I first saw you in this forum you would be the most intelligent resource in this forum man was I off point.

If you're going to argue with Deus, you should probably find out what the success rates of early, mid and late round draft picks are as a basic comparative. That would either strengthen or dismiss your position.

 

[manxman2601]

It's pretty universally understood, amongst football fans and other football people (coaches, players, etc...), that a seventh round pick is a cheaper pick than a first, second, third, fourth, fifth or sixth round pick, and that pick from a later year is a cheaper pick than a pick from an earlier year. In this case, it's reportedly a conditional 7th round pick, years down the road.

When it comes to trades for players, it doesn't get a whole lot cheaper than that.

Of course it co names cheaper than that. We could have had Jeff Fuller as a FA pickup rather than spend a draft pick for someone to occupy a roster spot for a couple of weeks. I'm sure there's a logic to the way the Pats have approached the WR spot since last spring but it's getting a little hard to understand.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

7th round picks can be contributors, but they are more likely to amount to not much:

Kade Weston
Oscar Lua
Jeremy Ebert
Thomas Welch

as just a few examples

It's a low hit rate round, but low is indeed not zero. Not much better than the hit rate on undrafted free agents that are signed.

Seems a reasonably small asset to use if you have insights on a player you think has potential

 

[mgteich]

Are you saying that Salas is a vested veteran?

My bad. We are only on the hook for a couple of game checks.

If a vested player, with four or more years of NFL experience is on the roster for week 1, his salary is guaranteed for the year.

 

[Deus Irae]

Of course it co names cheaper than that. We could have had Jeff Fuller as a FA pickup rather than spend a draft pick for someone to occupy a roster spot for a couple of weeks. I'm sure there's a logic to the way the Pats have approached the WR spot since last spring but it's getting a little hard to understand.

You're right that FAs cost nothing but the signing, but this was a trade. For a trade, this was thrift store pricing.

 

[part-timer]

except for Troy Brown he was an 8th. That aside you missed my point completely. We should not be giving up picks period, whether they be "rich", "expensive", "cheap" or what ever other terms are generally used amongst football fans and other football people (coaches, players, etc...) for a player simply to take a look and then cut him 2 weeks later.

Draft picks provide value on draft day. Look at this year Alfonzo Dennard and Nate Ebner could both end up being good players.

The reality of the point is most likely moot. The chances that the conditions of the 2015 7th round pick have not been met are highly likely.

 

[Deus Irae]

That's good, your rejecting it with absolutely nothing to support doing so. Shows exactly why a man who loves football as much as you do will never do any to contribute to the sport other then continue to add to his 30K post count in patsfans.com speculating about football people who he dreams of being like.

I really thought when I first saw you in this forum you would be the most intelligent resource in this forum man was I off point.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You jumped into something over a 7th round pick, saying that wasn't a cheap look. Now, you may not like trading picks, but that doesn't mean that a 7th round pick isn't a cheap look. It's not my fault, or the fault of anyone but you, that you confused your preference with a more objective analysis. However, since you wish to continue this, here you go:

I did a 10-year study on the draft to judge the success rate of players selected in each round. I defined a successful player as one who is starting four years after being drafted. Four years gives him a chance to prove himself, and if you are not starting after four years you will probably be replaced on the roster. The results were as follows:

Round 1 -- 75 percent
Round 2 -- 50 percent
Round 3 -- 30 percent
Round 4 -- 25 percent
Round 5 -- 20 percent
Round 6 -- 9 percent
Round 7 -- 9 percent

Team-by-team analysis: Judging without grades - NFL - CBSSports.com News, Rumors, Scores, Stats, Fantasy

So, you're complaining about a pick, reportedly a conditional 7th round pick three years down the road, when that pick has less than a 10% statistical likelihood of becoming a starter four years down the road, according to at least one study.

I may, or may not, be "the most intelligent resource in this forum". I'll leave that for others to opine on, either publicly or privately. However, I know enough about the sport to know that a conditional 7th round pick 3 years down the road is considered a very small price to pay in a trade. Depending upon what the conditions to the deal were, this move may not have cost the Patriots anything more than a briefly held roster spot.

 

[ATippett56]

Are you saying that Salas is a vested veteran?

My bad. We are only on the hook for a couple of game checks.

LOL!

Looks like you modified your post just as I was about to reply.

New England Patriots Salary Cap 2012

The St Louis Rams actually "eat" the rookie signing bonus, as well.

 

[Urgent]

The release of Rivera is the most impactful.
He was the fourth LB. Salas was the 6th or so receiver; Hilliard the 5th RB.

The way Spikes plays and his history yields a high expectation that he will miss time.

The team needs a fourth LB that is capable of playing on defense.
I would hope for more of a Bobby Carpenter than Koutovides.

 

[zeroakuma]

Just how bad was Salas?

 

[Ring 6]

The release of Rivera is the most impactful.
He was the fourth LB. Salas was the 6th or so receiver; Hilliard the 5th RB.

The way Spikes plays and his history yields a high expectation that he will miss time.

The team needs a fourth LB that is capable of playing on defense.
I would hope for more of a Bobby Carpenter than Koutovides.

Rivera was never the 4th LB. Ninkovich is the 4th LB.

 

[HowardRoark]

Just how bad was Salas?

We may never know...

 

[goheels22002]

All three of those guys should stay near the telephone. My sense is that Belichick is building depth for a 16-plus game season by giving players practice reps and some game experience.

Branch, Winslow, Jr., and Koutouvides each represents a different type of experienced player going into the Ravens game.

Branch is exactly what this team needed when Hernandez went down - a sure-handed route runner who has chemistry with Brady. Winslow may not play, but if he does, he's not there to block, he's there to catch the ball or draw a linebacker into coverage away from the 1st option. Koutouvides is a solid 4th/5th linebacker who is very tough on special teams.

The guys they let go have a few weeks of camp and two weeks of regular season experience that can be extremely helpful down the road in the event of injuries.