Julian Edelman

[Off The Grid]

A few thoughts...

1 ~ I absolutely love the kid.

2 ~ Julian Edelman is truly a Riddle, wrapped up in a Mystery, embedded in an Enigma.

3 ~ The hard thing to admit, it seems to me, is that we simply don't know what to expect'f'm, this year.

4 ~ The Argument that his dearth of production so far is due to his only having had 3 years of his life to learn this job is a very valid one, especially when you consider the notorious difficulty of mastering our System.

5 ~ I think it's very important to remember that Wide Outs frequently produce explosive improvement in their 3rd or 4th years. It often takes that long for them to attain a level of Fluency with their System such that they run routes reliably and consistently, thus earning the QB's trust, which of course translates into a dramatic increase in Targets ~ all the more around here, obviously, where the Casualty Rate of young ~ and experienced!! ~ Receivers has been epidemic.

6 ~ And Edelman has given every indication of the Intelligence, Athleticism, and Work Ethic required ~ not least of which is the prominent presence of "QuarterBack" on his resume!! ~ to suggest that he is fully capable of mastering the System reliably enough to earn a solid chunk of Market Share ~ of Targets.

7 ~ Most compelling of all, perhaps, is that the one time he was given an Opportunity to play the majority of the Snaps at Slot ~ in 2009, at season's end ~ he performed very effectively, despite having all of 4 months of experience at the position!!

8 ~ But since that extraordinary Cameo, he has all but disappeared from our Offense...And considering that Wes Welker's absence hadn't been necessary for Edelman to get plenty of Targets as a Rookie before that injury...Edelman's subsequent two year absence strongly suggests that he dramatically regressed.

9 ~ And yet: Week 17 in 2010, he picks up 72 Yards against the Fish, when we finally play'm...and another 13 on a Reverse. That right there strongly suggests the opposite: That Mad Bill simply doesn't have room on the field for'm, with Welker, Rob Gronkowski, and Aaron The Navigator tearing it up in the middle...and that he is, somehow, the equivalent of a talented yet rarely deployed back up QuarterBack.

10 ~ Personally, I don't believe so, much as I'd like to: As compelling as that angle is, I find it far more likely that Mad Bill's entire history of rewarding hard work and precision with Market Share ~ Snaps ~ strongly suggests that he would have made room in the rotation for'm, over the last couple years, had Edelman's precision, consistency, and reliability warranted it.

But I'd be lying my @$$ off if I said I was sure, one way or the other!!

Either way, it by no means means he isn't about to have a big year!! Here's hoping!!

 

[Off The Grid]

Hey Drama Queen, I'm not going to lose sleep whether he makes the team or not. Nor am I "clinging" or "desperate". Really! I pointed out that your sweetheart made what could have been a costly mistake in a real game, and that *I THINK* his hands are about average, maybe a little less. I am still allowed to have an opinion, right K-K-Ken?

I also said

Clearly pointing that that he had good plays, but this wasn't one of them. Good with the bad. Bad with the good. Now go pop a nitroglycerine, and have a coke and a G-D smile.

A Fish Called Wanda References are always appreciated!! :rocker:

And MotörHead is always The Correct Choice.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

10 ~ Personally, I don't believe so, much as I'd like to: As compelling as that angle is, I find it far more likely that Mad Bill's entire history of rewarding hard work and precision with Market Share ~ Snaps ~ strongly suggests that he would have made room in the rotation for'm, over the last couple years, had Edelman's precision, consistency, and reliability warranted it.

The basic issue is this: in 2009, when Edelman was on the field in the playoff game, he might have been the second-best receiving option that Brady had, after Moss.

Then this little thing called GRONKnandez happened. . . .

 

[ATippett56]

Hey Drama Queen, I'm not going to lose sleep whether he makes the team or not. Nor am I "clinging" or "desperate". Really! I pointed out that your sweetheart made what could have been a costly mistake in a real game, and that *I THINK* his hands are about average, maybe a little less. I am still allowed to have an opinion, right K-K-Ken?

I also said

Clearly pointing that that he had good plays, but this wasn't one of them. Good with the bad. Bad with the good. Now go pop a nitroglycerine, and have a coke and a G-D smile.

Remove the bolded section and replace with the following:

"No hassle. There's plenty of time. I'll just sit here and eat my chips till you tell me. The English contribution to world cuisine: the chip. What do the English usually eat with chips to make them more interesting? Wait a moment! It's fish. Isn't it? [Dipping into the fish tank with a net] Oh! Here, boy. Down the hatch. [Eats the fish] Delicious!"

 

[condon84]

Actually the reason I see it as "obvious" is because he clearly isn't a lock to make this team, which by definition puts him on the bubble. Do you honestly believe Edelman is a loc kto make this team?


My mistake, i initially missed where you called him a lock.

After Lloyd and Welker, he is the closest lock WR to make this team. He's our best returner, a solid backup WR and special teams player. Gaffney and Branch fill the same spot, so I can see one of them getting cut. I think Stallworth is definitely on the outside looking in.

 

[The Scrizz]

Knowing OTG has my back on Edelman makes me feel good because at the very least he is going to bury you with words and smilies.

 

[patfanken]

A few thoughts...

1 ~ I absolutely love the kid.

2 ~ Julian Edelman is truly a Riddle, wrapped up in a Mystery, embedded in an Enigma.

3 ~ The hard thing to admit, it seems to me, is that we simply don't know what to expect'f'm, this year.

4 ~ The Argument that his dearth of production so far is due to his only having had 3 years of his life to learn this job is a very valid one, especially when you consider the notorious difficulty of mastering our System.

5 ~ I think it's very important to remember that Wide Outs frequently produce explosive improvement in their 3rd or 4th years. It often takes that long for them to attain a level of Fluency with their System such that they run routes reliably and consistently, thus earning the QB's trust, which of course translates into a dramatic increase in Targets ~ all the more around here, obviously, where the Casualty Rate of young ~ and experienced!! ~ Receivers has been epidemic.

6 ~ And Edelman has given every indication of the Intelligence, Athleticism, and Work Ethic required ~ not least of which is the prominent presence of "QuarterBack" on his resume!! ~ to suggest that he is fully capable of mastering the System reliably enough to earn a solid chunk of Market Share ~ of Targets.

7 ~ Most compelling of all, perhaps, is that the one time he was given an Opportunity to play the majority of the Snaps at Slot ~ in 2009, at season's end ~ he performed very effectively, despite having all of 4 months of experience at the position!!

8 ~ But since that extraordinary Cameo, he has all but disappeared from our Offense...And considering that Wes Welker's absence hadn't been necessary for Edelman to get plenty of Targets as a Rookie before that injury...Edelman's subsequent two year absence strongly suggests that he dramatically regressed.

9 ~ And yet: Week 17 in 2010, he picks up 72 Yards against the Fish, when we finally play'm...and another 13 on a Reverse. That right there strongly suggests the opposite: That Mad Bill simply doesn't have room on the field for'm, with Welker, Rob Gronkowski, and Aaron The Navigator tearing it up in the middle...and that he is, somehow, the equivalent of a talented yet rarely deployed back up QuarterBack.

10 ~ Personally, I don't believe so, much as I'd like to: As compelling as that angle is, I find it far more likely that Mad Bill's entire history of rewarding hard work and precision with Market Share ~ Snaps ~ strongly suggests that he would have made room in the rotation for'm, over the last couple years, had Edelman's precision, consistency, and reliability warranted it.

But I'd be lying my @$$ off if I said I was sure, one way or the other!!

Either way, it by no means means he isn't about to have a big year!! Here's hoping!!

OTG, a well written and thought out post. You made strong posts and backed them up. I've written a few very similar posts over the last few months. But here's the problem Grid. It DOESN'T matter to the haters. They just don't care.

Edelman is garbage. A waste of a roster space as a receiver. He'd be gone already without his so called "versatility", according to them. Bad routes, average hands, and can't understand the offense. 4 receptions last season. Any of this sound familiar? Its not only familiar its a constant and consistent refrain, and nothing you can write is going to change their opinions. They are all going to go down swimming against the tide.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Don't you understand that it is very likely that Wes Welker is going to see a significant drop off in his production this year....and it won't have anything to do with is play. There is only one ball and more options simply mean fewer targets, and fewer targets means lower production. Plus its likely we will run the ball a bit more, creating even fewer opportunities for receiving production.

You mean like when you guys said exactly the same thing before last season?

Brady decides who gets the ball, and since Welker is the one guy who is almost always open he sees more of it than anyone else. You guys can continue to make the same arguments that have been proven wrong repeatedly but until the day comes where you are actually right you shouldn't expect others to buy them.

I think Edelman makes the team because he is their primary PR and Belichick won't go into the season with a question mark at the position, he's also extremely versatile and can contribute in a variety of ways, but pretending he is some great receiving option when he hasn't proven anything as one is foolish. If Edelman had shown himself as a WR he would have seen much more time as one, getting that time is his responsibility.

 

[Huckleberry1]

OTG, a well written and thought out post. You made strong posts and backed them up. I've written a few very similar posts over the last few months. But here's the problem Grid. It DOESN'T matter to the haters. They just don't care.

Edelman is garbage. A waste of a roster space as a receiver. He'd be gone already without his so called "versatility", according to them. Bad routes, average hands, and can't understand the offense. 4 receptions last season. Any of this sound familiar? Its not only familiar its a constant and consistent refrain, and nothing you can write is going to change their opinions. They are all going to go down swimming against the tide.

No Ken, none of that sounds familiar because virtually no one is saying that, and when pressed to come up with the posts showing people saying that you have refused to do so. You are making a strawman argument because your case is so weak you have no other choice. Are there people who don't think Edelman is a great receiver, yes, are there a bunch of people claiming he sucks and should be cut immediately, or "garbage" as you claim, NO, there aren't, and until you provide us with some evidence there are we aren't going to buy it.

Let's see all those posts calling him "garbage" Ken.

 

[Huckleberry1]

OTG, a well written and thought out post. You made strong posts and backed them up. I've written a few very similar posts over the last few months. But here's the problem Grid. It DOESN'T matter to the haters. They just don't care.

Actually Ken what you have been claiming is that the Patriots offense wouldn't miss a beat without Welker and that Edelman could replace him "seamlessly," and you have provided absolutely nothing to support those claims. That is what everyone is rejecting, not the idea that Edelman can contribute, which is what Grid argued. they are very different arguments and glomming onto a reasonable argument made by Grid to support an unreasonable argument you make doesn't fly for anyone paying attention.

 

[patfanken]

Hey Drama Queen, I'm not going to lose sleep whether he makes the team or not. Nor am I "clinging" or "desperate"

I am NOT a drama queen, and if you keep on saying so I'm going to break something or burst into tears. If anything I'm a drama :"king".

Listen Red, I'm not so much an Edelman "supporter". than an Edelman "defender". There IS a difference. If you go back most of my posts were predicated on the "absolute" opinions of those who thought that Edelman was a total bust as receiver. No people who "think" this way, but haters who KNOW.

I THINK he'd be able to give us good production from the slot receiver position if/when he gets the chance. I THINK, within the context of the total offense, he'd do it seamlessly. But that is just my opinion, based on observable facts. I COULD be dead wrong.

The reason I defend him so strongly is my objection to the absolute certainty that the haters use when making their opinions known, and their dismissal of any dissenting ones. Grid just made my position perfectly clear. But it won't matter to the haters....and THAT's why I post when they do.

If I lumped you in with them because of your "muff" comment, I apologize from my late night knee jerk reaction.

BTW- FYI, when I went to the stats to check on Edelman's fumbling record, I had no idea if it was good, decent or bad compared with Welker and Jackson. I just wanted to see how he was doing against our former PR, and one of the best in the league. Turns out its about the same.

 

[Gronkandez]

I find it far more likely that Mad Bill's entire history of rewarding hard work and precision with Market Share ~ Snaps ~ strongly suggests that he would have made room in the rotation for'm, over the last couple years, had Edelman's precision, consistency, and reliability warranted it.

But I'd be lying my @$$ off if I said I was sure, one way or the other!!

Ken, please focus on #10. His conclusion is closer to siding with the "haters" than he is with you.

 

[patfanken]

Ken, please focus on #10. His conclusion is closer to siding with the "haters" than he is with you.

Yeh, but at least Grid is stating that its his OPINION. He's not stating it as a fact.

BTW- Its still my opinion that even if Edelman ran his routes perfectly (assuming he had trouble in the first place), he STILL wouldn't have seen the field much because he was playing behind Welker. He STILL wouldn't have seen much playing time at WR because he didn't have the skill set to play that position.

And last year in particular, even BB would have been hard pressed to give Edelman WR snaps when he was playing so much defense.

Nothing's change GH, including your attempts to defend that opinion....which you keep stating as fact.

 

[AzPatsFan]

A few thoughts...

1 ~ I absolutely love the kid.

2 ~ Julian Edelman is truly a Riddle, wrapped up in a Mystery, embedded in an Enigma.

3 ~ The hard thing to admit, it seems to me, is that we simply don't know what to expect'f'm, this year.

4 ~ The Argument that his dearth of production so far is due to his only having had 3 years of his life to learn this job is a very valid one, especially when you consider the notorious difficulty of mastering our System.

5 ~ I think it's very important to remember that Wide Outs frequently produce explosive improvement in their 3rd or 4th years. It often takes that long for them to attain a level of Fluency with their System such that they run routes reliably and consistently, thus earning the QB's trust, which of course translates into a dramatic increase in Targets ~ all the more around here, obviously, where the Casualty Rate of young ~ and experienced!! ~ Receivers has been epidemic.

6 ~ And Edelman has given every indication of the Intelligence, Athleticism, and Work Ethic required ~ not least of which is the prominent presence of "QuarterBack" on his resume!! ~ to suggest that he is fully capable of mastering the System reliably enough to earn a solid chunk of Market Share ~ of Targets.

7 ~ Most compelling of all, perhaps, is that the one time he was given an Opportunity to play the majority of the Snaps at Slot ~ in 2009, at season's end ~ he performed very effectively, despite having all of 4 months of experience at the position!!

8 ~ But since that extraordinary Cameo, he has all but disappeared from our Offense...And considering that Wes Welker's absence hadn't been necessary for Edelman to get plenty of Targets as a Rookie before that injury...Edelman's subsequent two year absence strongly suggests that he dramatically regressed.

9 ~ And yet: Week 17 in 2010, he picks up 72 Yards against the Fish, when we finally play'm...and another 13 on a Reverse. That right there strongly suggests the opposite: That Mad Bill simply doesn't have room on the field for'm, with Welker, Rob Gronkowski, and Aaron The Navigator tearing it up in the middle...and that he is, somehow, the equivalent of a talented yet rarely deployed back up QuarterBack.

10 ~ Personally, I don't believe so, much as I'd like to: As compelling as that angle is, I find it far more likely that Mad Bill's entire history of rewarding hard work and precision with Market Share ~ Snaps ~ strongly suggests that he would have made room in the rotation for'm, over the last couple years, had Edelman's precision, consistency, and reliability warranted it.

But I'd be lying my @$$ off if I said I was sure, one way or the other!!

Either way, it by no means means he isn't about to have a big year!! Here's hoping!!

I would like to paraphrase one of your points:

2 ~ [Some Fans opposition to] Julian Edelman is truly a Riddle, wrapped up in a Mystery, embedded in an Enigma.:snob:

 

[Mainefan]

I really wonder why Edelman is such a lightning rod for controversy. There are some 80-odd other players on the roster and very few, if any, get this much notice here. What is it about him that so riles up some people? Anyone have any ideas?

 

[Jackson 2]

I really wonder why Edelman is such a lightning rod for controversy. There are some 80-odd other players on the roster and very few, if any, get this much notice here. What is it about him that so riles up some people? Anyone have any ideas?

Only that I think some are put off by the idea/contention that he can replace and duplicate Welker's production. I don't believe he can, but I really like him and think he's very valuable. But, for sure he's a polarizing figure.

 

[Ring 6]

Because saying the same thing over and over again IS tiresome, especially when you get the SAME responses over and over again. Clearly with over 15,000 post you don't mind repeating yourself, but I don't.

Then why do you keep repeating yourself? You are saying that I am at fault for us disagreeing because I am sticking to my opinion, while you are sticking to yours.

No, that would require having an open mind and respect for some else's opinion. So of course I didn't think you'd change your mind.

I have a very open mind, and if I didn't respect your opinion I wouldn't respond to you. Nice pity party though.

Why try and make is sound like a capitulation. That's childish. Weeks ago I make this same point. You feel that all the WR position require the same skill set. You believe if you are good in the slot, your should be good outside the numbers. I, on the other hand believe that the slot receiver requires a different skill set. Just because a guy plays G very well, doesn't mean he will be a great tackle. They are two DIFFERENT positions. I believe the same hold true for slot receivers.

So we have a difference of opinion, and you are repeating yourself over an over as if you think your opinion is fact.

But it you want you can continue to say (as you have for the last few months) that the fact Edelman can't beat out outside WR's last season, he can't possibly be a good slot receiver, feel free.

Why must you twist my argument? Why not adddress what it really is?
He hasn't beaten out any other receivers for playing time. I have never said can't possibly, I have said the evidence and my eyes say he isn't.

This argument would have merit ONLY if I had opined that Edelman was better than Welker or that I wanted Edelman to start over him. Which just hasn't been the case. I am comfortable that if Edelman had to play the slot WR position, the offense wouldn't be impared. You clearly are not.

I am not even close to comfortable with that. You seem to want to make it fact that a guy who has never produced will make a seamless replacement for the best ever at that role. You also ignore that Welkers job is much more than just running slot routes. Again.

Like I said earlier, UNTIL he has that opportunity, by injury or Welker moving on, NEITHER of us knows for sure who is right. But since in your mind, you think you are ALWAYS right, this last sentence won't mean anything to you.

And here you have stated your opinion with certainty right up until the end when you obliterate every point you made above by saying you have no idea, and then decide to create a new rule that I somehow state my opinion as fact. Please show me one place where I have said I am always right, or expressed my opinion on Edelman as fact.
You ignore the facts that contribute to the formation of my opinion then try to distract the argument, not by having a good one, but by creating this pretend world where your opinion is better because you declare mind as stubborn.
Bizarre world you live in there Ken.

 

[Huckleberry1]

By impaired I believe he meant crippled. Going from Welker to Edelman would be a downgrade but at least he's capable. It wouldn't be going from Brady to Sanchez.

Actually Ken has claimed the transition would be "seamless." It is a bizarre conclusion with no basis in reality but he maintains it nonetheless, and calls those who say otherwise "haters."

 

[patfanken]

Actually Ken has claimed the transition would be "seamless." It is a bizarre conclusion with no basis in reality but he maintains it nonetheless, and calls those who say otherwise "haters."

Once again just reading what you want to see, rather than what is written.

"I THINK he'd be able to give us good production from the slot receiver position if/when he gets the chance. I THINK, within the context of the total offense, he'd do it seamlessly. But that is just my opinion, based on observable facts. I COULD be dead wrong."

This is from just 8 posts ago

 

[Huckleberry1]

Once again just reading what you want to see, rather than what is written.

"I THINK he'd be able to give us good production from the slot receiver position if/when he gets the chance. I THINK, within the context of the total offense, he'd do it seamlessly. But that is just my opinion, based on observable facts. I COULD be dead wrong."

This is from just 8 posts ago

And it is exactly what i said it was. You are claiming he could replace Welker "seamlessly" and claim it is based upon "observable facts." What "observable facts" are you referring to, as there is nothing in his production that even comes close to suggesting he could replace Welker.

Furthermore Ken you have been making a strawman argument about "Welker haters" who think he is "garbage" without producing any relevant posts that support that take. I.E....you are making up an opponent to have an argument with, as no one is saying that, what they are saying is that there is a huge dropoff from Welker to Edelman, and that is actually what is fact based.