Julian Edelman

[BB4PRez]

Edelman will be on the team. He is versatile and still young. I do not think we have seen what his ceiling is at this point, but I understand where others see things differently. I think he can be a solid slot reciever.

Given Welker's age and contract situation Edelman will be given an opportunity to see what he can do in the slot again this year. In my opinion, he is not in Welker's class and will never get to that level, but if the team decides it can get a significant percentage of Welker's projected production at a small fraction of Welker's cost they could choose to go that way and spend dollars on younger guys like Hernandez. As much as I like Welker it is hard to see how he can keep playing as well as he has at his age and given the beating he takes.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's always difficult to attempt to bring balanced perspective into discussion on a message board with passionate fans. The claims on both sides are invariably exaggerated often until they become polar opposites. Yes, this can be a useful debating technique but it only serves to obscure truth and prevent reasoned analysis.

Thanks for trying to get this thread more on track. However, I'm not sure you'll succeed.

Where is the balance in the notion that a guy who couldn't beat out Brandon Tate is going to beat out Gaffney because of 1 preseason game and a few decent camp reports?

 

[patfanken]

Andy, this is getting exhausting. I am tired of answering your posts with the same arguments we've been stating for the last month. I'm sure you feel the same in my direction, though I think you enjoy the battle more than I. Which might be why you have a mere 12,000 more posts than I.

Despite that I disagree with most of your points of view, the fact is that your are right until proven wrong. Just as it can be said that I am right until proven wrong. Until Edelman is deemed worthy of a starting role or inherits one due to injury,and gets consistent looks in the regular offense, neither of us knows for certain what the outcome will be.

And believe me, if I am proven to be right, I would hope that I would be man enough NOT to throw it back in your face......though its not likely THAT's gonna happen. (btw - if eventually you are proven right....feel free.to reciprocate. )

If we can at least agree on that then an awful lot of bandwidth will be saved.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I don't buy the past production argument. If it were so then youngsters wouldn't ever beat out vets. Moving forward, if Edelman is more productive than other wideouts he'll play and they won't. Simple as that.

My personal feeling is that Edelman will be very hard presses to beat out either Lloyd or Welker. But I could easily see him vaulting past Gaffney, and especially Stallworth and Branch, who are nothing special despite their years of experience.

Bob, I would never suggest that young players can't improve and turn themselves into really good players, it happens all the time, i just wouldn't lock it in as fact when there has been ample opportunity and it hasn't occured. I actually like Edelman and hope he makes the team and contributes as much as possible, I just don't see him as a better receiver than the others at this point, and i believe the talk that he can easily replace Welker is the stuff crackheads are made of, it's crazy.

At this point Gaffney and Stallworth are clearly better receivers, and Branch, while a better receiver is the one Edelman will have to get by to gain a receiving spot, because he can't play ST's and is fragile. I think there is a realistic chance he beats Branch out for a roster spot because of his limitations and injury concerns, and i would be fine with that, i just think the hype is way over the top and out of touch with recent history. If he somehow manages to catch 50 balls this season for 600-700 yards i will be really happy because it means another project has panned out for the Patriots, and in the end all I really care about is how well the team does. Rooting against any of them makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, this is getting exhausting. I am tired of answering your posts with the same arguments we've been stating for the last month. I'm sure you feel the same in my direction, though I think you enjoy the battle more than I. Which might be why you have a mere 12,000 more posts than I.

Despite that I disagree with most of your points of view, the fact is that your are right until proven wrong. Just as it can be said that I am right until proven wrong. Until Edelman is deemed worthy of a starting role or inherits one due to injury,and gets consistent looks in the regular offense, neither of us knows for certain what the outcome will be.

And believe me, if I am proven to be right, I would hope that I would be man enough NOT to throw it back in your face......though its not likely THAT's gonna happen. (btw - if eventually you are proven right....feel free.to reciprocate. )

If we can at least agree on that then an awful lot of bandwidth will be saved.

I'm not sure why you find disagreement exhausting. I mean did you really think I was going to change my criteria for evaluating a player because you put on a positive spin?
But sure, dropping the conversation is fine. The only thing you said that I dispute is that you are continuing to act as if the fact that the coaching staff has determined they don't want him on the field has nothing to do with assessing his ablity. Playing time is earned, and I find it very frustrating when people try to argue the guy on the bench is 50% likely to be better than the guy the coach puts on the field ahead of him, because he was not afforded a chance, when the fact is he didn't earn it.
That is probably the piece of your argument that I find the most inexplicably obstinate.

 

[Ring 6]

Only true if you believe a player never gets any better than the level at which they (didn't) produce previously. It might well be the case that Edelman has improved such that, today, he is better than he was previously. If so then, obviously, past production, or lack thereof, means diddly squat.

I am not saying he couldn't improve, I am saying the liklihood of being better than players who have outperformed him for years is slim. If you want to latch on to it being possible, by all means do, and perhaps Hoyer can be a HOF QB too.

I can't speak for others but, in my case, I see/read/hear that Edelman, despite not producing to lofty standards in the past, is currently making plays in camp which might project him as a possible contributor on the team come September.

Again, to what end is this critical information. If there were a long track record of fringe players getting positive reports from camp showing up in the regular season it would have value but in fact the track record is fringe players getting positive reports in camp, and not doing anything in the season, by a very wide margin.

I make this projection much like I would for someone like Brace or Cunningham or Carpenter or Hoyer or Scott or Gregory or any other player who hasn't produced to lofty standards in the past but who has had productive camps which might translate into a spot on this team moving forward.

But each player has a different prognosis based on their level of ability.
If you want to have a discussion that every player who has never produced has a chance to get better and produce, great, but thats not what this one was.

Not sure why this would be far fecthed.

If you are saying some player will surprise at some point the odds are in your favor. If you are saying one particular player who has not produced in 3 years, nor shown the skills that would get him on the field, will produce then it is far fetched.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Indeed, this has been Edelman's real downfall - too many drops. He does so much so well but if he's not holding on to the ball consistently in practice, he's not going to get many opportunities in games.

I love Julian Edelman and truly believe that if he got better at catching, he could become not only a starting NFL receiver but a true impact player. Unfortunately, I expect the drops to continue and a career as a special teams force.

Agree completely. I really don't think any of us can gain too much from what we see in the practices and don't put too much stock in what i saw the day I was there because so much more is going on that we don't know anything at all about. Edelman had two drops on easy balls in a matter of about 20 minutes when i saw him, but on my way out I was talking with a lady who was raving about him but had missed that part of the practice, and what she saw was how explosive he was on a number of plays later in the practice, which was also true. So much is taken into account when it comes to the final roster that taking bits and pieces of practices and trying to extrapolate from them is really futile. One thing is certain however, and that is that the Patriots are going to be cutting a bunch of really good football players over the next few weeks, and hopefully they can trade some of these guys to teams with needs for later round picks they can use down the road. I don't think I have ever seen them with so many guys who really should be on an NFL roster, they are really loaded, especially in terms of depth.

 

[Ring 6]

Where is the balance in the notion that a guy who couldn't beat out Brandon Tate is going to beat out Gaffney because of 1 preseason game and a few decent camp reports?

Or that a picture of his face indicates a "reshaping his body in the offseason"

 

[rookBoston]

To find out which players on the bubble will make it and which won't.

I saw Edelman in practice a week ago Monday and he had 2 drops on easy receptions, hardly something that would make him a primary target. He may well make the team because of his versatilty but it is hard to see him vaulting into a primary receiver role over guys like Gaffney and Stallworth when they have years of production to lean on and he doesn't.

Gaffney and Stallworth were on the field running routes with the 2s, same snap count as Edelman. Are you saying that the QBs intentionally targeted Edelman because he's on the bubble, instead of Gaffney, because he's a lock?

 

[rookBoston]

Where is the balance in the notion that a guy who couldn't beat out Brandon Tate is going to beat out Gaffney because of 1 preseason game and a few decent camp reports?

Brandon Tate is gone. Edelman is in camp. By definition, Edelman is outperforming Tate.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Gaffney and Stallworth were on the field running routes with the 2s, same snap count as Edelman. Are you saying that the QBs intentionally targeted Edelman because he's on the bubble, instead of Gaffney, because he's a lock?

I'm saying both are better receivers than Edelman and preseason is to find out what players have to offer, and edelman has much more to prove than either. Seriously, people are so frigging delusional about Edelman that it is ridiculous. Edelman is on the bubble, as is Stallworth, that much is obvious.

 

[mgteich]

Edelman is NOT on the bubble unless we sign a returner. Oops!

 

[Deus Irae]

Brandon Tate is gone. Edelman is in camp. By definition, Edelman is outperforming Tate.

Edelman is in Patriots camp producing at some level. Tate is in Bengals camp producing at some level. The question of who is performing better is not definitional.

 

[supafly]

Seriously, people are so frigging delusional about Edelman that it is ridiculous. Edelman is on the bubble, as is Stallworth, that much is obvious.

'Some' people are delusional about Edelman. Others have him pegged as a shifty returner with moves who is only 3 yrs removed from playing a different position entirely.

There are some things that people just don't take into acct, like the fact that he has played scout team QB/other important skill positions depending upon the opponent. That, coupled with the fact that he is a solid ST guy with at least some versatility on a cheap rookie deal makes him a solid lock in my opinion.

There's only 2 reasons why you'd see the situation as "being obvious."

1. You are ONLY seeing him as a WR and taking the perceived "great WR battle of 2012" into account.

2. You are somehow privy to more knowledge than the rest of us and are expecting a discipline move/cut based on some kind of speculation about not following team rules, etc.

Otherwise, Edelman has had one of the best TC's of any player out there this year, and you'd be following the exact opposite of what many of the thoughts are.

Edelman may/may not be able to carve himself a permanent niche playing ST without showing good skills as a WR in the future (I'm guessing NOT), but I think that he's safe this year and has certainly earned another year of opportunities.

Whether or not Belichick has any intention of using him as a slot guy in the future remains to be seen.

 

[Huckleberry1]

'Some' people are delusional about Edelman. Others have him pegged as a shifty returner with moves who is only 3 yrs removed from playing a different position entirely.

There are some things that people just don't take into acct, like the fact that he has played scout team QB/other important skill positions depending upon the opponent. That, coupled with the fact that he is a solid ST guy with at least some versatility on a cheap rookie deal makes him a solid lock in my opinion.

There's only 2 reasons why you'd see the situation as "being obvious."

1. You are ONLY seeing him as a WR and taking the perceived "great WR battle of 2012" into account.

2. You are somehow privy to more knowledge than the rest of us and are expecting a discipline move/cut based on some kind of speculation about not following team rules, etc.

Otherwise, Edelman has had one of the best TC's of any player out there this year, and you'd be following the exact opposite of what many of the thoughts are.

Edelman may/may not be able to carve himself a permanent niche playing ST without showing good skills as a WR in the future (I'm guessing NOT), but I think that he's safe this year and has certainly earned another year of opportunities.

Whether or not Belichick has any intention of using him as a slot guy in the future remains to be seen.

Actually the reason I see it as "obvious" is because he clearly isn't a lock to make this team, which by definition puts him on the bubble. Do you honestly believe Edelman is a loc kto make this team?


My mistake, i initially missed where you called him a lock.

 

[Huckleberry1]

'

There's only 2 reasons why you'd see the situation as "being obvious."

1. You are ONLY seeing him as a WR and taking the perceived "great WR battle of 2012" into account.

.

I don't see him solely as WR, in fact if I did I would give him no chance of making this team. Edelman's greatest strength is his versatility, which is exceptional, however he isn't great at anything, and when they fill up with better players in all of his roles, which they may have done, then he becomes much more expendable.

 

[supafly]

Edelman is NOT on the bubble unless we sign a returner. Oops!

Your point has validity and I see the obvious humor, but I think that some here are taking the whole Demps thing a bit too far.

In one thread he is replacing Danny Woodhead, in the other--Julian Edelman.

Let's remember that Demps was likely a 5th/6th/7th rd prospect who has been out of football for quite awhile, not to mention that he's a very small scat back with no knowledge of...anything here.

I agree with bringing him in this year and giving him a shot, and I certainly hope that he ends up being a diamond in the rough.

 

[supafly]

I don't see him solely as WR, in fact if I did I would give him no chance of making this team. Edelman's greatest strength is his versatility, which is exceptional, however he isn't great at anything, and when they fill up with better players in all of his roles, which they may have done, then he becomes much more expendable.

It's all up to the coach(es) in the matter obviously. As fans we can speculate all day about what's going on, and that's what keeps the board going 'round, and also what keeps us happy throughout the year.

It seems to me that a guy like Edelman who has multiple uses in different areas both practice and gameday is definitely a valuable part of a Bill Belichick ST-based team.

We really don't know how much the other variables are coming into play, and whether or not Edelman has indeed been making strides with his assignments as a WR or not.

I would respectfully disagree in the fact that Edelman, who is young and shows tendencies to add more to the team--cannot beat out old ass Branch, or washed up Stallworth too, just for what it's worth.

My guess is that ONE of Branch/Stallworth do make it, but that Edelman's role has already been defined and secured at the same time. I certainly could be way off.

Edit: And I certainly do recognize Branch's rapport with Brady and the good things that he does, and I'd be one of the first to point that out. It was more of a tongue in cheek comment showing an example of what Branch can no longer do.

 

[Huckleberry1]

'

2. You are somehow privy to more knowledge than the rest of us and are expecting a discipline move/cut based on some kind of speculation about not following team rules, etc.

.

lmao-I didn't even know Gallery had retired let alone have any sort of "inside" knowledge. My views on Edelman are based upon his roster spot in relation to all of the depth they have added at his various roles. To me they have 5 CB's, so no spot there, 5 WR's, so no spot there. A KR specialist, so no spot there. I think Slater wins a ST spot over him.

I like Edelman I just think they are getting too deep across the board and running out of room for him, same goes for Woodhead who i am a big fan of.

 

[Huckleberry1]

It's all up to the coach(es) in the matter obviously. As fans we can speculate all day about what's going on, and that's what keeps the board going 'round, and also what keeps us happy throughout the year.

It seems to me that a guy like Edelman who has multiple uses in different areas both practice and gameday is definitely a valuable part of a Bill Belichick ST-based team.

We really don't know how much the other variables are coming into play, and whether or not Edelman has indeed been making strides with his assignments as a WR or not.

I would respectfully disagree in the fact that Edelman, who is young and shows tendencies to add more to the team--cannot beat out old ass Branch, or washed up Stallworth too, just for what it's worth.

My guess is that ONE of Branch/Stallworth do make it, but that Edelman's role has already been defined and secured at the same time. I certainly could be way off.

Edit: And I certainly do recognize Branch's rapport with Brady and the good things that he does, and I'd be one of the first to point that out. It was more of a tongue in cheek comment showing an example of what Branch can no longer do.

I agree that he could beat out Branch but if they keep Slater and only go with 5 Wr's then the only place left for Edelman imo is as the PR, and I actually cannot think of anyone who they have who is better in that role. Whether Belichick is willing to go with that many specialists is really questionable. I also agree on edelman's versatility however if they have a better player in every role then he becomes the odd man out. he still may make the roster and i'm fine with it if he does, however it has become increasingly difficult for him.