Defensive Front 7

[mgteich]

DEFENSIVE FRONT SEVEN (14 of 15)
widebodies: Wilfork, Love, Deaderick, Fanene
DE/OLB: Ninkovich, Jones, Bequette, Cunningham, Scott/Francis/Carter
ILB: Mayo, Hightower, Spikes
LB/ST: Carpenter, Fletcher

OPTIONS FOR #15
another widebody (this is my choice; Warren or Prior or Brace)
another special teamer

 

[mayoclinic]

DEFENSIVE FRONT SEVEN (14 of 15)
widebodies: Wilfork, Love, Deaderick, Fanene
DE/OLB: Ninkovich, Jones, Bequette, Cunningham, Scott/Francis/Carter
ILB: Mayo, Hightower, Spikes
LB/ST: Carpenter, Fletcher

OPTIONS FOR #15
another widebody (this is my choice; Warren or Prior or Brace)
another special teamer

I don't think it's a given that it will be 15 rather than 16. I could also see Jeff Tarpinian playing a hybrid LB/DB/ST role (competing directly with Josh Barrett). I think at least one more "widebody" is likely, and possibly 2.

 

[supafly]

I don't think it's a given that it will be 15 rather than 16. I could also see Jeff Tarpinian playing a hybrid LB/DB/ST role (competing directly with Josh Barrett). I think at least one more "widebody" is likely, and possibly 2.

It may not be the best year for Tarpinian to make the squad with the increased competition from Carpenter, Fletcher (depending upon where you put him, I certainly think he's a lock myself), White, and even Barrett as you said. I do think that we have to acct for him and include him though, but the others likely hold a decent edge in my opinion.

I certainly agree that 16 may be quite reasonable, with 2 more 'wide bodies' at the helm. Those guys may/should (IMO) include 2 of the following 4 options:

--Pryor
--Brace
--G.Warren
--a less likely choice of a vet pickup due to roster cuts, but you never know

That would leave 9 DB's to make the approximation of the magic "25" number. With many of those 9 DB's having the ability to change positions in the secondary due to need/injury, 9 should be okay. It also includes a combo of some of the ST only guys such as Carpenter/White/Fletcher/Tarpinian/Barrett, which is another positive for sure.

 

[signbabybrady]

IMO Vince, Love, Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, and Jones look like a sick group to me. Leaving one DE spot remaining and a solid group to chose from. Maybe we get Carter back too. Sure maybe Hightower and Jones don't start from game one but they both look good so far and there is a real solid group behind them too. Front seven looks solid, versatile, and deep to me.

 

[supafly]

Front seven looks solid, versatile, and deep to me.

I agree. I also think that it's a given that we need to add 2 more players in the front too though, such as Pryor/Brace/Warren/other. That would certainly be adequate enough, and our depth should be looking quite good then. With so many different rotations/looks/injuries/etc, Belichick likes to have some decent depth up front to cover all the bases--and rightfully so.

It could shape up to be a formidable group for sure.

 

[Ring 6]

DEFENSIVE FRONT SEVEN (14 of 15)
widebodies: Wilfork, Love, Deaderick, Fanene
DE/OLB: Ninkovich, Jones, Bequette, Cunningham, Scott/Francis/Carter
ILB: Mayo, Hightower, Spikes
LB/ST: Carpenter, Fletcher

OPTIONS FOR #15
another widebody (this is my choice; Warren or Prior or Brace)
another special teamer

I think you are very light up front. You have last years starting LDE,DT,DT with only one backup. We need at least 2 more.
I'm not sold on Carpenter yet.
I think it has to be 16.

 

[supafly]

I think you are very light up front. You have last years starting LDE,DT,DT with only one backup. We need at least 2 more.
I'm not sold on Carpenter yet.
I think it has to be 16.

Any thoughts on possible frontrunners, Andy?

I am guessing that it will be a nice competition for the final 2 spots with one of Brace/Warren (could play both DE/DT if needed), and one of Pryor/other for more of an interior push/backup role.

One could also argue that BOTH Brace/Warren should get the nod over Pryor/other at this point too, especially if he doesn't come back soon--although I think he is on the track back from injury myself. That scenario could also possibly provide more versatility, although effectiveness remains a question mark of course.

 

[BBass]

Pryor will start on PUP just about a certainty.

I actually think it will be 16

Big's - Wilfork, Love, Brace, Fanene, Deaderick, Francis
DE/OLB - Jones, Ninkovich, Cunningham, Scott, Bequette
LB - Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Carpenter, Fletcher

I think Tarpinian would make it only if we decided not to keep a true FB, but if we keep Larsen there really isn't much that Tarpinian is going to bring that he can't provide in special teams.

I also see Francis making the squad he continues to impress and seems to be used inside and out Jarvis Green style. 6'2 275 isn't ideal but if he could beef up 10-15lbs could be a sold inside rush option in sub packages.

 

[Sciz]

16 seems like a good number. Five bigs, 5 edge guys, 6 total linebackers. I like Brace as the last DT with Warren a phone call away and Pryor available off PUP midseason. Last DE spot goes to Carter if he's back or Francis otherwise. Seems like they're about ready to give up on Scott. White/Tarp as the last LB.

As for what White/Tarp have on Larsen, it's straight-line speed. If there's a play in football where 40 speed matters the most, it's kickoff coverage. Both White and Tarp are 4.55 40 guys. Larsen ran 4.82.

 

[BBass]

16 seems like a good number. Five bigs, 5 edge guys, 6 total linebackers. I like Brace as the last DT with Warren a phone call away and Pryor available off PUP midseason. Last DE spot goes to Carter if he's back or Francis otherwise. Seems like they're about ready to give up on Scott. White/Tarp as the last LB.

As for what White/Tarp have on Larsen, it's straight-line speed. If there's a play in football where 40 speed matters the most, it's kickoff coverage. Both White and Tarp are 4.55 40 guys. Larsen ran 4.82.

I really don't see the need to keep a FB. Hernandez can play out of that H-Back position and give us so much more. Larsen is a nice all around end of roster player but to cut one of these players with huge upside doesn't make sense. With the exception of Warren I cannot see a player that is on the roster bubble that won't be picked up by another team same day.

How many players do we need for ST? Edelman, Carpenter, Tarp, White, Slater, Wilson and Ebner all have strong ST ability. In your opinion how many of those players make the cut? I know Wilson and Carpenter bring things in other areas so they will make it but who else do you see making it?

 

[supafly]

How many players do we need for ST? Edelman, Carpenter, Tarp, White, Slater, Wilson and Ebner all have strong ST ability. In your opinion how many of those players make the cut? I know Wilson and Carpenter bring things in other areas so they will make it but who else do you see making it?

As you said, Wilson and Carpenter bring something to other areas. Edelman and Slater do on a much lesser extreme, so there's 4 right there. I think that it may come down to ONE of Tarpinian/White/Barrett also. I do not see Ebner being fully ready, not to mention the increased competition factor. I see Ebner as a pure PS candidate who should have no problem at all clearing waivers. Some will surely differ on that opinion however.

 

[rookBoston]

I count 16, too:

RDE/DE - Jones, Carter/*Francis, *Bequette
DT/NT - Wilfork, Love, Brace
DT/DE - Fanene, Deaderick
LDE/OLB - Ninkovich, Cunningham
WLB/ILB - Mayo, *Fletcher
MLB/ILB - Spikes, *Tarpinian/*White
SLB/OLB - Hightower, *Carpenter
* ST role

Our starting 7 looks elite for the first time in years, with Jones, Wilfork, Fanene, Ninkovich, Hightower, Spikes and Mayo. Fast and explosive. No obvious weak links. No more Guyton! No more Banta-Cain! Thank hoodie.

Case:
Ninkovich lines up in a down position, but drops into coverage post snap. Mayo picks up the RB releasing through the middle and Spikes rolls into the flat to fill for Hightower who is rushing from his LB spot. Love and Jones play a twist on the right side to get the LT flustered enough that he doesn't notice Hightower coming off the edge. The QB panics, reading the extra rusher from the left, lobs it to the TE on that side where he figures the defense has cleared out. Spikes steps under it for a clear sailing pick-six.

The positional versatility across all seven players means that, even tho everyone is stunting or filling a different role than their normal assignment, they're all still doing something they're good at, have done in the past, and have trained for. What defensive coordinator wouldn't be drooling at the different looks you can create with the same base personnel? You can create all kinds of match-up problems. You can run 4-3 or 3-4 without substituting a single player.

 

[mgteich]

DEFENSIVE BACKS
All seem ready to go with 9 defensive backs. I'm not so sure all would agree when we see who the #10 defensive back turns out to be. We already know that most of us have different players as the bottom 4 defensive backs.
===========================
WIDE BODIES
OK, I'm on board with andy, mayo and supafly. Let's keep 16, including TWO more 300 plus widebodies. Warren, Pryor and Brace come to mind (or a TBA vet free agent signing).
=========================
SPECIAL TEAMS
I would not sacrifice a wide body position for a LB/STer. After all, we already have Carpenter and Fletcher. IMHO, Carpenter is this year's White/Izzo. If we keep one fewer DT, then I agree that we would keep a STer, but IMHO that player could be Cole (a top gunner), or Barrett or Ihedigbo rather than yet another LB/STer.

BOTTOM LINE
We all agree on ne more wide body. I'm not sure that we would need more than Wilfork, Fanene, Love, Deaderick and Warren. However, I'm always fine with more depth on the DL.

 

[Avenger]

A LB/ST might lose a spot to a fullback like say Spencer Larsen. The interview with Belichick pretty much said he was competing with them for a spot in the kicking game.

It Is What It Is » Will Patriots get back to fullbacks in 2012?

 

[Fencer]

DEFENSIVE FRONT SEVEN (14 of 15)
widebodies: Wilfork, Love, Deaderick, Fanene
DE/OLB: Ninkovich, Jones, Bequette, Cunningham, Scott/Francis/Carter
ILB: Mayo, Hightower, Spikes
LB/ST: Carpenter, Fletcher

OPTIONS FOR #15
another widebody (this is my choice; Warren or Prior or Brace)
another special teamer

Well, yes. You have a lot of tough cuts in there:

• Warren
• Brace
• Francis
• White/Koutivides/Tarpinian

 

[BlueThunder]

Well, yes. You have a lot of tough cuts in there:

• Warren
• Brace
• Francis
• White/Koutivides/Tarpinian

Warren- on speed dial
Brace- meh
Francis- tough to cut..can he clear waivers to PS? Keep him over Scott?
White/Koutivides/Tarp- would like to see what Tarp can do. The rest are pretty much knowns.

 

[patfanken]

Nice numbers talk.

Here's the quandary as I see it so far in this discussion. It comes down to a couple of factors. Do the Pats keep 10 DBs or 9. If they decide to keep 10 then with only 15 slots for the front 7 there are going to be some very recognizable names going to be cut, ESPECIALLY if Carter gets the call.

I think, when it comes, the most damage will be done with the ILBs. It just makes more sense because in today's game its the position of LEAST need. Even when you go to 3-4 alignments, its an ILB who gets replaced when the team goes to a dime. Of course when you are in a 4-3 alignment there IS only one ILB by definition. So the question is do you really need more than 4 ILBs. In fact the number might drop to 3 when you consider that both Mayo and Hightower's position flexibility allows them to be more than strictly ILBs

All that being said, in the spirit of this thread its important to make hard and firm uninformed and speculative decisions. So first I believe we will keep 10 DBs so I will only keep 15 front 7 players.

DL only - Wilfolk, Love, Deadrick, Fanene, Brace

DE/OLB - Ninkovich, Jones, Cunningham, Carter, Bequette

ILB - Spikes, Fletcher, Carpenter

3-4 ILB/ 4-3 OLB - Mayo, Hightower

Coverage LB/ST - Tarpanian

I'll get wishy washy enough to say that if Scott begins to show something, then Carter might be the odd man out. The other iffy thing is if the Pats decide that they need more than just 5 true DLmen and Warren gets the nod over Carpenter or Tarp.

 

[patfanken]

BTW- if Francis continues to flash through the first 2 preseason games, then I'd suggest that he get the Patriot flu for the rest of camp so he can get to the PS

 

[patsfaninpa]

I think you are very light up front. You have last years starting LDE,DT,DT with only one backup. We need at least 2 more.
I'm not sold on Carpenter yet.
I think it has to be 16.

Agree with you and Mayo. Need more widebodies. I want 6 so that we have enough to play a lot of 3-4. Or, fatties as I call them. Get G. Warren on the field. Big Money can still play. My 6th fatty right now is between R. Brace and M. Pryor. I would like to see us sign Andre Carter. He's not a fatty by a long stretch. But, he played de in a 3man quite a bit in passing situations. Maybe it was our dime package.

Bobby Carpenter is as slow as molasses. I'd rather have Fletch as our 4th ILB. And, if we want an extra lb/st it's either Tarpinian or White. Not Carpenter. Prob only 9 db's in this scenario. I'd prefer 10 after the last couple of seasons watching Edelman and Slater try to cover people.

 

[rookBoston]

BTW- if Francis continues to flash through the first 2 preseason games, then I'd suggest that he get the Patriot flu for the rest of camp so he can get to the PS

Screw that. If he continues to flash, then give him the job.