It Looks Like No Long term Deal between Pats and Welker

[PatsBoy12]

You have to admit the guys consistent, 6-8rec's and 60+yds a game almost guaranteed.

This isn't a bad point; however, I have seen teams negate him for large stretches of games the past few seasons. That, however, is the exception and not the rule with Welk. I really want to see an extension. He's earned it three times over (no matter his age).

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Two years $16M isn't a benchmark for anything beyond the 3 years $18.5M they were actually willing to pay him a year ago since that 2 year $16M offer wasn't on the table this spring.

Under the new CBA those rookies aren't putting any pressure on the payroll. They tagged Welker on the last day they could.

The window has not yet begun to close on the Brady era.

Welker wasn't signed for the same reason neither Givens nor Branch were and Gaffney wasn't retained. Because Belichick doesn't value the WR position at anything approaching market value despite the near insurmountable difficulty encountered in locating anyone who can play the position within this system the way it demands. And because the one time he did pay a guy top of the market to remain here at age 31 that guy failed to deliver the same production value thereafter and eventually he became a sufficient organizational headache that they had to move on from him. And because at the moment Belichick is in posession of every WR still playing who ever had success within the system. Albeit all at age 31 or older.

Next season if Welker is gone and Branch is gone and Gaffney and Stallworth (if he even makes the roster) and Lloyd all end up hitting that wall at 32 everyone insists exists, while Wes doesn't somewhere else, the same people presently defending their decision and downplaying Welker's value will be berserk because teams will be having a comparative field day limiting the two shiny young TE's...and Edleman if he's-re signed... Well, let's just say they won't be championing Belichick the GM... Not to mention they will probably be screaming for the head of McDaniels the once again incompetent coordinator. And they will likely be lobbying for the Mallett era to commence.

And anyone who points this thread out to them will or how easily he could have been retained will be attacked for trying to play the told you so card. Because that's kind of the way it always goes here.

If, if, if, if..........

What if events turn out exactly opposite of what you want and the team excels?

Does that mean that "Belichick" will turn to "Bill"?

Will you leave patsfans.com and follow Wes to his new team?

Will you apologize for 50+ pages of well.......?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't know, maybe I'll just start talking in the third person and hurling personal insults. Nah, that's way too lame.

 

[robbomango]

2009- blows out knee
2010- "Feet" comments require disciplinary action.
2011- Drops ball to seal game.

I read that 2nd point as,

patsfaninpittsburgh is just as puzzled as everyone else over the recent contract situation.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

I read that 2nd point as,

patsfaninpittsburgh is just as puzzled as everyone else over the recent contract situation.:confused2:

The point is the "feet" interview prior to the Jet's game (Ryan's video) was in direct violation of BB policy.

Does the critical first drive end different?

Is that the type of example veterans who are leaders and deserve special extra contract treatment set?

patsfaninpittsburgh isn't puzzled in the least. Why should anyone be puzzled? It's what's been happening for the last decade.

What's confusing is why anyone would think this would be different and why it should be different?

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

I don't know, maybe I'll just start talking in the third person and hurling personal insults. Nah, that's way too lame.

Beats sitting in the corner making Eyore' look like Richard Simmons because someone didn't get contract demands met.

Maybe you should consider something more dramatic.

There's always the petrol/ Buddist Monk thing.

How about dragging a cross to training camp? That would get someone's attention.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Nah, I'm not the drama queen type. Those are the folks who post incessantly in a thread they proclaim is a waste of bandwidth while adding nothing but gibberish and insults in persuit of attention.

I won't even sink to calling a insult baitor names let alone suggest he self immolate... Because that's never more than the mark of a really weak debater or an insecure poster looking for attention.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Nah, I'm not the drama queen type. Those are the folks who post incessantly in a thread they proclaim is a waste of bandwidth while adding nothing but gibberish and insults in persuit of attention.

I won't even sink to calling a insult baitor names let alone suggest he self immolate... Because that's never more than the mark of a really weak debater or an insecure poster looking for attention.

Completely agree.

Your time can best be used sitting at the computer sulking over the Welker contract saga.

The natural talent for that is certainly evident.

 

[robbomango]

The point is the "feet" interview prior to the Jet's game (Ryan's video) was in direct violation of BB policy.

Does the critical first drive end different?

Is that the type of example veterans who are leaders and deserve special extra contract treatment set?

patsfaninpittsburgh isn't puzzled in the least. Why should anyone be puzzled? It's what's been happening for the last decade.

What's confusing is why anyone would think this would be different and why it should be different?

The disciplinary problem and drop are 2 isolated incidents and not a big issue, IMO.

I'm not sure how they factor in injuries coupled with age, you could be right.

Over all Welker's a hard working, over achieving, productive player with 5 1200+yd seasons behind him and a great team mate to boot. Can he produce at that level beyond 1 or 2 more years and would the potential drop off be so bad that a 3 year deal wasn't worth a whisper?

If that's the case then I disagree with their evaluation or maybe just the cold nature of the business.

 

[goheels22002]

Next season if Welker is gone and Branch is gone and Gaffney and Stallworth (if he even makes the roster) and Lloyd all end up hitting that wall at 32 everyone insists exists, while Wes doesn't somewhere else, the same people presently defending their decision and downplaying Welker's value will be berserk because teams will be having a comparative field day limiting the two shiny young TE's...and Edleman if he's-re signed... Well, let's just say they won't be championing Belichick the GM... Not to mention they will probably be screaming for the head of McDaniels the once again incompetent coordinator. And they will likely be lobbying for the Mallett era to commence.

You make an excellent point about the WR position. If the players on the 2012 opening day roster are Welker 31, Lloyd 31, Branch 33, Gaffney 31, Stallworth 31, and Slater 26, it will be the oldest position - by far - on the team.

(I'm including Slater, as a WR because that is what he is listed as.)

I love that group for what it does in 2012 in the slot and outside for the offense, as well as what it means for Brady to have five/six WRs he knows and can trust (presuming Llloyd works out.) I do not think anyone will criticize Belichick, the GM, for putting that receiving corps on the field this year.

It creates the need for an overhaul in 2013 at that position. It is conceivable, but not likely, that the only two guys on the 2013 roster would be Lloyd and Slater. I doubt Branch and Stallworth would still be around so the draft and free agency become WR-centric, and Brady would have to adapt to a new set of guys.

The other wrinkle in this is Hernandez. He's a big slot receiver in my estimation. Brady's comfortable with him and he could move into Welker's role.

The Pats have replenished the other major position groups with youth the past three years, so maybe the plan is to focus on WR in 2013. A rookie wideout in the first round is more affordable than ever, and there will always be talented veterans who would love to come and play with Brady, so veteran options will be abundant.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

The disciplinary problem and drop are 2 isolated incidents and not a big issue, IMO.

I'm not sure how they factor in injuries coupled with age, you could be right.

Over all Welker's a hard working, over achieving, productive player with 5 1200+yd seasons behind him and a great team mate to boot. Can he produce at that level beyond 1 or 2 more years and would the potential drop off be so bad that a 3 year deal wasn't worth a whisper?

If that's the case then I disagree with their evaluation or maybe just the cold nature of the business.

So you think Welker deserves special contract treatment?

He's been an outstanding player but 2 years/ $16 million is also a serious offer.

If it works, it works...if not, then not.

Some sort of outside the body preferential treatment would be based on the totality of everything.

Ya just can't say only the good is applicable and then ignore the rest because it doesn't corform to what someone wants to believe.

 

[Kontradiction]

KontradictioN thinks that patsfaninpittsburgh is losing his mind.

 

[RobertWeathers]

The other wrinkle in this is Hernandez. He's a big slot receiver in my estimation. Brady's comfortable with him and he could move into Welker's role.

To me, this is an important point.

Beyond the age and contract stuff, the Pats might just think that AH is the heir-apprarant to WW's role with the team and along with a great 2012 campaign, he just might be the one getting the big-money extension- thus WWs $$.

The only issue is that he is not as good of a player as WW and who knows if he will ever be as productive.

 

[BradyManny]

Completely agree.

Your time can best be used sitting at the computer sulking over the Welker contract saga.

The natural talent for that is certainly evident.

While I realize MoLewisRocks probably doesn't need other people fighting his battles for him, I just gotta say...

A) He's clearly not "sulking".
B) You're "sitting at a computer" attacking him over the Welker contract saga, how does that make you better?
C) Have you lost the ability to disagree with someone without attacking them?

I think you need to take a look at your posting of late and determine whether it could be considered "trolling."

 

[English Patriot]

Don't see why people are sweating this so much, who was Wes Welker exactly before he came to NE? Nobody that's who.

What we should really be concerned about is keeping the man who made Welker into who he is today, healthy and protected. (Its' Brady incase you haven't got the jist of my comment)

For that kind of money that Wes is asking for you can get Larry Fitzgerald type talent.

Don't get me wrong i like Wes and not saying he doesn't work hard, but you always get this feeling he is who he is because TB throws the ball right between his numbers almost every time. Same way Peyton did to Austin Collie for example.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You make an excellent point about the WR position. If the players on the 2012 opening day roster are Welker 31, Lloyd 31, Branch 33, Gaffney 31, Stallworth 31, and Slater 26, it will be the oldest position - by far - on the team.

(I'm including Slater, as a WR because that is what he is listed as.)

I love that group for what it does in 2012 in the slot and outside for the offense, as well as what it means for Brady to have five/six WRs he knows and can trust (presuming Llloyd works out.) I do not think anyone will criticize Belichick, the GM, for putting that receiving corps on the field this year.

It creates the need for an overhaul in 2013 at that position. It is conceivable, but not likely, that the only two guys on the 2013 roster would be Lloyd and Slater. I doubt Branch and Stallworth would still be around so the draft and free agency become WR-centric, and Brady would have to adapt to a new set of guys.

The other wrinkle in this is Hernandez. He's a big slot receiver in my estimation. Brady's comfortable with him and he could move into Welker's role.

The Pats have replenished the other major position groups with youth the past three years, so maybe the plan is to focus on WR in 2013. A rookie wideout in the first round is more affordable than ever, and there will always be talented veterans who would love to come and play with Brady, so veteran options will be abundant.

Hernandez may well be persuing WR money, and I doubt it will be slot WR money he's looking for (at least by NEP standards which seems to be between $3-6M). He can make more money than that just remaining a TE... As for the draft...they haven't hit on a WR who could stick on the roster past ST in a long time. I think the track record of the veteran WR's who come here in FA will actually give FA pause in the future, especially if Ocho does much of anything in Miami. Nobody wants to end up looking like an idiot because they couldn't pick up this system and actually play with Brady. And the downside generally is you're out of the league or playing somewhere else at veteran minumum until or unless you prove you can still contribute in a less demanding offense. The options have never been abundant and they could be less so from here on out as well if most of the handful of guys you might have considered (like Wayne this offseason) wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole (because if he has a tough season in Indy a lot of that will fall on a rookie QB).

 

[RobertWeathers]

Don't see why people are sweating this so much, who was Wes Welker exactly before he came to NE? Nobody that's who.

He was a very good WR who caught 67 passes from Joey Harrington who the best coach on the planet hated facing.

What we should really be concerned about is keeping the man who made Welker into who he is today, healthy and protected. (Its' Brady incase you haven't got the jist of my comment).

Brady's numbers have improved across the board since WWs arrival. Not THE reason but a reason.

For that kind of money that Wes is asking for you can get Larry Fitzgerald type talent..

8yrs/$128m w/ $50m in guarantees. I dont think so.

Don't get me wrong i like Wes and not saying he doesn't work hard, but you always get this feeling he is who he is because TB throws the ball right between his numbers almost every time. Same way Peyton did to Austin Collie for example.

Granted he missed some time in 2010 when he was on a pace to catch about 100 balls but Collie's numbers have been pretty much the same w/ w/o Peyton and caught 54 balls from a pathetic array of QBs last year. But c'mon, Collie couldn't carry WWs jock on his best day.

 

[English Patriot]

He was a very good WR who caught 67 passes from Joey Harrington who the best coach on the planet hated facing.

You know what i mean, compared to who he is today and back then.

Brady's numbers have improved across the board since WWs arrival. Not THE reason but a reason.

I won't budge on this, Brady is a one of a kind that has made countless scrub type receivers become SB champions and put up record numbers. Welker wasn't a scrub but wasn't exactly a number 1 receiver because he did it all himself.

8yrs/$128m w/ $50m in guarantees. I dont think so.

I didn't mean Fitz LITERALLY. I was merely stating that top tier deep field receiver talent can be bought with that money.

Collie's numbers have been pretty much the same w/ w/o Peyton and caught 54 balls from a pathetic array of QBs last year. But c'mon, Collie couldn't carry WWs jock on his best day.

Collie and Blair White are proof of what a Peyton like QB can do for you, they called it the 'Blair White project' for a reason and that was for him to be the Colts' Welker.

 

[Deus Irae]

You know what i mean, compared to who he is today and back then.



I won't budge on this, Brady is a one of a kind that has made countless scrub type receivers become SB champions and put up record numbers.



I didn't mean Fitz LITERALLY. I was merely stating that top tier deep field receiver talent can be bought with that money.



Collie and Blair White are proof of what a Peyton like QB can do for you, they called it the 'Blair White project' for a reason and that was for him to be the Colts' Welker.

Prior to last year, Collie's reception numbers were 60 and 58. Peyton Manning didn't play a snap last year. Collie had 54 receptions playing with the likes of Curtis Painter.

 

[English Patriot]

Prior to last year, Collie's reception numbers were 60 and 58. Peyton Manning didn't play a snap last year. Collie had 54 receptions playing with the likes of Curtis Painter.

They kinda had to go to him as apart from Wayne there wasn't much option, but what about Blair White?