It Looks Like No Long term Deal between Pats and Welker

[patfanken]

Yeah, well... you're wrong.

Given its now 3 pages later....you are right....emphatically.

And Fransico Franco is STILL dead.

 

[Kontradiction]

Given that the primary argument would be not-resigning Welker due to the fact that we have to re-sign Hernandez, let's apply this logic toward A-Hern...

Aaron Hernandez (since '10 Divisional Round): 20 rec, 192 yards, 2 TD's
Wes Welker (same time period): 26 rec, 225 yds, 1 TD

This is added to the fact that Welker has been keyed on MUCH more than Hernandez has in all of the above games mentioned. I love Hernandez, but he's not the guy that Brady looks toward most when the chips are down, nor does he demand the kind of attention when it comes to double coverage that Welker does. If anything, Welker opens things up for Hernandez.

 

[treeclimber]

That would explain the Mankins and Mayo deals.

Mankins and Mayo are both far more valuable to this team than Wes "Butterfingers" Welker. That explains why they have contracts. Also, the Patriots agree with me, evidence by them not extending Welker past this year.

 

[treeclimber]

Given that the primary argument would be not-resigning Welker due to the fact that we have to re-sign Hernandez, let's apply this logic toward A-Hern...

Aaron Hernandez (since '10 Divisional Round): 20 rec, 192 yards, 2 TD's
Wes Welker (same time period): 26 rec, 225 yds, 1 TD

This is added to the fact that Welker has been keyed on MUCH more than Hernandez has in all of the above games mentioned. I love Hernandez, but he's not the guy that Brady looks toward most when the chips are down, nor does he demand the kind of attention when it comes to double coverage that Welker does. If anything, Welker opens things up for Hernandez.

Wow, 6 more receptions for 33 yards and one less touchdown. So you're saying you don't count Hernandez's Superbowl TD catch as Brady looking towards him when, "the chips are down?" Riiiigggghhhttt... And teams were doubling Gronkowski more than Welker by the end of the year. Welker got doubled up in the Superbowl, had an average game (like usual in the playoffs), and lost us the game. Hernandez is 21. I'll take him and a deep threat over extending an old, overrated receiver any day of the week.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Not at all, given that those 7 games don't prove your point, as has been noted time and again..

And you are wrong. They do show WW's YAC, YPC and 1st down % are less in the playoffs.

I'm not contorting anything. Now you're just clowning yourself. The game I was referring to was the 2009 game against the Ravens, where Welker didn't play...

Put a date in front of the team. You wern't clear. Thats you problem. Not mine. Go read your post.

You've demonstrated, time and again, that you don't understand context. This response of yours demonstrates it once again, as a matter of fact....

Just to prove it, i provided context.

Catches up. Touchdowns even/up. That's not containment. You've put out other numbers which support your claim. Instead of reconciling the two by looking to context, you've just spouted off a bunch of gibberish.....

What other numbers? ive stated the same three numbers that show he isn't as productive in the post season. You are making things up now.

And Brady made, by his own admission, bad reads and throws in that game. It's not an example of the opposite, at all. Once again, you show an inability to analyze that makes your arguments absolutely worthless.

Like Brady will throw WW under the bus publically. Please.

I've provided context to my argument by calling out a game that clearly shows a defense without pressuring Brady a ton that limits the Pats offense and holds Welker below his season average for catches, yards, yards per catch, 1st down %. Do you think if WW was open more Brady would have had better numbers? yes or no?

The simple fact is you have a worthless counter-argument by claiming my stats are meaningless and I can't add context which I have.

Simply put, you can't accept it and you have done nothing tangible to dismiss my argument.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Wow, 6 more receptions for 33 yards and one less touchdown. So you're saying you don't count Hernandez's Superbowl TD catch as Brady looking towards him when, "the chips are down?" Riiiigggghhhttt... And teams were doubling Gronkowski more than Welker by the end of the year. Welker got doubled up in the Superbowl, had an average game (like usual in the playoffs), and lost us the game. Hernandez is 21. I'll take him and a deep threat over extending an old, overrated receiver any day of the week.

By this point, you sound less like a Patriots fan and more like Welker stole your girlfriend.

 

[treeclimber]

By this point, you sound less like a Patriots fan and more like Welker stole your girlfriend.

Only thing he stole from me was watching Brady and this team win another ring. At least that's better than some of the posters on here who act like they want to be his girlfriend.

 

[DaBruinz]

Only thing he stole from me was watching Brady and this team win another ring. At least that's better than some of the posters on here who act like they want to be his girlfriend.

Could have sworn you were banned. Your spiel sounds so familiar...

Do yourself a favor. Go learn about the game. You might actually realize that the pass not being caught was as much Brady's fault (thrown to wrong shoulder) as it was Welker's.

BTW, why don't we see you complaining about Hernandez's drop that occurred before Welker's? Or Branch's drop that also occurred before Welker's?

And another thing, Welker was being doubled just as much as Gronkowski and more in most cases through the entire year. This idea that Gronk was doubled more at any point is ridiculous.

 

[treeclimber]

Could have sworn you were banned. Your spiel sounds so familiar...

Do yourself a favor. Go learn about the game. You might actually realize that the pass not being caught was as much Brady's fault (thrown to wrong shoulder) as it was Welker's.

BTW, why don't we see you complaining about Hernandez's drop that occurred before Welker's? Or Branch's drop that also occurred before Welker's?

And another thing, Welker was being doubled just as much as Gronkowski and more in most cases through the entire year. This idea that Gronk was doubled more at any point is ridiculous.

1. Hit him in the hands, should've caught it. It doesn't matter how bad Brady throws it mechanically. He could've did a back flip and thrown it off his ass. If it hits you in the hands you better catch it. Case in point: Welker's fault.

2. Maybe you're the one who needs to do a favor for yourself and rewatch some football. Hernandez and Branch drops were not even remotely close to Welker's. He pooped his pants on live television, curled up in the fetal position on the field, and then admitted after the game it was his fault.

3. Please prove with stats.

 

[JackBauer]

Only thing he stole from me was watching Brady and this team win another ring. At least that's better than some of the posters on here who act like they want to be his girlfriend.

This guy's posts are a facsimile of another troll (whose name escapes me) who was banned recently.

 

[Kontradiction]

Wow, 6 more receptions for 33 yards and one less touchdown.

With a considerable amount more attention being afforded to Welker than Hernandez, Jets fan.

So you're saying you don't count Hernandez's Superbowl TD catch as Brady looking towards him when, "the chips are down?" Riiiigggghhhttt...

Only the chips weren't down at that point. The saying "when the chips are down" usually applies in crunch time in the 4th quarter. That pass, while good for Hernandez to get open, was not in crunch time. Brady looked to Welker on that play, as he will continue to do on similar plays this season, and as he has done dating back to '07.

And teams were doubling Gronkowski more than Welker by the end of the year.

Yes, this was evidenced in the AFCCG when a wide open, streaking Gronk had a pass hover over his wide open head. Or when he was single covered in open field by safeties like Pollard or LB's like Suggs. Yes, Gronk does get double covered. He's a 6'7 behemoth of a TE. Of course he's going to get double covered. But it's not with the frequency that Welker has. Go back and watch all of the postseason games again. You'll see how apparent it is that teams were more game plan specific with the Welker match-up than they were with the Gronk match-up.

Welker got doubled up in the Superbowl, had an average game (like usual in the playoffs), and lost us the game.

I wasn't aware that Welker allowed Eli to go 30-40 and allowed the game winning drive. I also wasn't aware that Welker started our first possession with an intentional grounding that became a safety. Please, enlighten me more.

Hernandez is 21. I'll take him and a deep threat over extending an old, overrated receiver any day of the week.

Thanks for proving to everyone that your opinion cannot be taken seriously in the slightest bit.

 

[Deus Irae]

And you are wrong. They do show WW's YAC, YPC and 1st down % are less in the playoffs.

No, I'm not, as has been demonstrated to you time and again. Your own "And you are wrong" comment deliberately ignores the data that runs counter to your claim. Look, it's clear that you don't understand how context works, and it's clear that you can't analyze worth a damn. That being the case, further discussion here is usless.

 

[RobertWeathers]

No, I'm not, as has been demonstrated to you time and again. Your own "And you are wrong" comment deliberately ignores the data that runs counter to your claim. Look, it's clear that you don't understand how context works, and it's clear that you can't analyze worth a damn. That being the case, further discussion here is usless.

All you've really said is that my numbers are worthless and accuse me of not comprehending what context means. In acutallity I've produced a trend that demonstrates this over 7 games and provided and actual game that shows WW being contained.

Face it, Deus, teams do focus on WW in the playoffs and his main role (move chains) in the offense suffers.

 

[Ring 6]

Sorry, dude. It is what it is:

Wes Welker Playoffs Game Log - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Sorry dude, it isnt what it isnt. First downs are not in those stats.

 

[Ring 6]

I will admit that I used a poor choice of words.

What is clearly glaring is your failure to admit that for multiple reasons, WW compared to the regular season, is not as productive in the playoffs.

How do I fail to admit Welker produces less in the playoffs when I have said numerous times that Welker LIKE EVERYONE ELSE produces less statistically vs good defenses in the playoffs?
You seem to think pointing out that your argument is misapplied is 'failing to admit' to something. You are wrong.

 

[RobertWeathers]

How do I fail to admit Welker produces less in the playoffs when I have said numerous times that Welker LIKE EVERYONE ELSE produces less statistically vs good defenses in the playoffs?
You seem to think pointing out that your argument is misapplied is 'failing to admit' to something. You are wrong.

Thats fine, Andy. I know you know football. My earlier belief was that you did not think WW's performance in the playoffs dropped off at all and that was what I was trying to articulate.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Oddly neither are a lot of players on this team (and probably a few others). Maybe it's the nature of the beast. Overall Gronkowski and Hernandez weren't as productive in the playoffs as in the regular season.

Actually Gronks ypc, ypg were higher in the playoffs. I threw out the Sb as he was hurt. AH ave more catches and yards per game but his ypc was lower. Haven't looked at 1st downs %. I threw out the '10 game vs NYJ as he was hurt. Only a 3 game sample so I'm hesitant to say its a real trend.

Probably some reasons for that. Otherwise...we could just blame Brady...with maybe a nod to his metaphors. Now there's an entire unit that collectively isn't as productive in the playoffs that possibly goes a long way towards explaining lots of things.

:bricks:

I blame the defense putting the offense in a position that NEEDS to score and the lack of a running game that forces the defense to play the passing game honestly.

 

[Boomer B]

People are forgetting the most important stat in this whole ordeal.

5 years played for the Patriots, 0 Superbowl Rings.

Seymour and Law had a right to complain about their contracts. They actually got their work accomplished. Welker? Not so much.

What a lame post.

None of the Patriots has won a Super Bowl in the last 5 years. Do you want to get rid of the whole team? Start all over?

Welker hasn't won a ring and hasn't lit up the playoffs, but there are many factors. He's playing against the best D's. They aren't gonna put up 40 pts against teams like the Ravens. Also, the weather in January is a lot different then it is in September and October. Pats rarely hang up huge points in the playoffs, even in their Super Bowl seasons.

I think Welker can step up an play better in the playoffs just like a lot of the team could (Brady, O-Line, the D at key times), but to pin the Super Bowl loss on him is complete B.S.

 

[ausbacker]

Jets aren't really relevant. I expect this current franchise, head coach, and QB to hold themselves to much higher standards than preseason victories and back to back AFC championship losses.

Fact is, if Welker wants to be paid like a top 5 receiver maybe he should play like one for once (playoffs especially). Unless you're only a fantasy football fan (which I'm assuming no one on this board is) then sure, he's lived up to expectations with his 1500 regular season yards. 122 catches but drops the most important one. Who cares about his regular season stats, he doesn't show up when it matters.

Troll, Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald are 0-5 in the same time frame.

 

[Deus Irae]

All you've really said is that my numbers are worthless and accuse me of not comprehending what context means. In acutallity I've produced a trend that demonstrates this over 7 games and provided and actual game that shows WW being contained.

Face it, Deus, teams do focus on WW in the playoffs and his main role (move chains) in the offense suffers.

Welker's main role is not to "move the chains". Welker's main role is to catch short/medium passes.
This is a perfect example of what I'm talking about with you and why this is useless.

And you've not produced what you claim you've produced. I'm sorry that you're unwilling to admit something that obvious, but when Andy and I are both pointing that out to you (and he and I haven't been agreeing on all that much in recent years), that should be a clue that you may be overrating your claims.