Giants ok with third round pick in exchange for Osi Umenyiora

[Ring 6]

No but Carter was.

That doesn't justify obtaining a player to play his role in order to revert back to a scheme that didn't work, and is out of character with how the defense was built. Not to mention Carter is a much better base 43 DE.

 

[muslimman]

Im surprised no one has posted this yet...


Osi: If you trade for me, you wont have renegotiate my contract

Basically he will be a one year rental for the price of a 3rd round pick. And the cost of this will be a reasonable 3.975 million. Based on this new information I think a lot of people might reconsider their opinion of this potential trade.

I for one am all for it. We have given more for less in the past.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I'd give up pick 93 and not lose any sleep about it. It's not like the 3rd round has been good to the Patriots lately in the draft anyway.

I'm with Andy on this one. I would do my best to resign Carter and rotate these two guys all season long. Both players being fresh and healthy for the playoffs would be huge.

Bringing him in increases the likelihood of close games going in our favor. Game changing athletes do not effect every play on the field, but they have the chance of making 1,2,3 plays a game that effect the outcome. Osi is one of those guys still.

 

[Big-T]

Im surprised no one has posted this yet...


Osi: If you trade for me, you wont have renegotiate my contract

Basically he will be a one year rental for the price of a 3rd round pick. And the cost of this will be a reasonable 3.975 million. Based on this new information I think a lot of people might reconsider their opinion of this potential trade.

I for one am all for it. We have given more for less in the past.

It was, post 9:

Osi Umenyiora: If you trade for me, you won’t have to redo my contract | ProFootballTalk

He's may be just saying that, but at this point he's interested mostly in playing time--which will help him get a contract later. For a 3rd round pick and less than $4M, it's worth considering.

Even if it was for one year, I'd give up a 3rd for a pass rusher as good as Osi.

 

[Mr.Kraft]

If you can't beat them , then sign'em or trade for them!

 

[Shockt327]

A lot. You are saying we used an undersized DE in the base all year last year so we can do it this year, and I am saying we did it last year isn't a good reason.


Because we are a 34 team that was forced into a 43 last year, and we willl be a better defense in 34. Also beause Uminyeora is injury prone and playing him 30 snaps a game instead of 60 willl actually make him a more productive player for us, because he can go all out in the situaitons he is best suited for and be fresh both late in games and late in the season, and be less of an injury risk at his advanced age.


Probably more than that.


Only if we play the same scheme as last year, which failed, and do it with a player who is not as good as Carter, especially in run defense.



I could care less about what contract he wants.
I only want him in a nickel/dime 30-35 snap a game role.
I see him as a guy with a huge ego who won't accept the role I would like to sign him for.



Its a real dilemma, you just misunderstood it.

You say Carter and Osi are "undersized" for the DE position. But, you really aren't speaking of the one-gap role we employed last year. Rather, I suspect you are trying to allude to someone who can play in a two gap D, no? A 3-4? Well, ok. But on that same token, I'd point out that just because last year's D featured a DE who was put in a more traditional weakside 4-3 role (which Osi isn't undersized to play); does not mean that there is something inherently wrong with that scheme. Rather, it's personnel. Carter was a bright spot. Osi will be an upgrade (especially after Carter's injury). We've made other, relative, upgrades in personnel too....

So, on that note; I find your assertion -- that the Pats are a 3-4 team -- to be very questionable. Our two biggest acquisitions on D, Fanene and Scott, have never played in a 3-4 before. Neither fit; at least not in the base 3-4. So you want to imply that Osi won't fit in the 3-4? Well, I'd say that all three players fit into the 4-3 better, and have all their experience in 4-3; so I'd assume that we're moving further and further towards the 4-3. Or at least Bill's version of it, like last year. Multiple fronts that mix one-gap and two-gap assignments. But not our traditional 3-4.

So, if you want to say that last year's scheme failed; I'd agree. But schemes fail due to personnel. Compared to Carter (and his current injury), Osi would be a much needed upgrade in personnel. Personnel that's is becoming more and more suited towards what we employed last year.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

If you can't beat them , then sign'em or trade for them!

Eli, a NE Patriot?!?

Please, Mr Kraft. Please nol!

 

[TheComeback]

Then he'd be a one-year rental. Nobody is going to give up a 3rd round pick for that.

You're kidding, right?

 

[Sciz]

You're kidding, right?

Apparently I underestimated how much people like Umenyiora. I'd be awfully worried about adding a guy who's missed 23 of his last 64 possible games and thanks to Strahan, Tuck, and Pierre-Paul, has never really been "the guy" on that DL like he'd be most places.

 

[Ring 6]

You say Carter and Osi are "undersized" for the DE position. But, you really aren't speaking of the one-gap role we employed last year. Rather, I suspect you are trying to allude to someone who can play in a two gap D, no? A 3-4? Well, ok. But on that same token, I'd point out that just because last year's D featured a DE who was put in a more traditional weakside 4-3 role (which Osi isn't undersized to play); does not mean that there is something inherently wrong with that scheme. Rather, it's personnel. Carter was a bright spot. Osi will be an upgrade (especially after Carter's injury). We've made other, relative, upgrades in personnel too....

We are a 34 2 gap team. That is what we have and will play best. We played a different scheme last year out of necessity, and it failed.

So, on that note; I find your assertion -- that the Pats are a 3-4 team -- to be very questionable.

Its what we have been for years, and it is what our personell are best suited for.

Our two biggest acquisitions on D, Fanene and Scott, have never played in a 3-4 before. Neither fit; at least not in the base 3-4.

Scott has played 34. Fanene is a good fit as a 34 DE. Both, however figure to play most prominently in the sub packages.

So you want to imply that Osi won't fit in the 3-4? Well, I'd say that all three players fit into the 4-3 better, and have all their experience in 4-3; so I'd assume that we're moving further and further towards the 4-3.

I disagree.

Or at least Bill's version of it, like last year. Multiple fronts that mix one-gap and two-gap assignments. But not our traditional 3-4.

I disagree

So, if you want to say that last year's scheme failed; I'd agree. But schemes fail due to personnel.

And our personell is best suited to the 34.

Compared to Carter (and his current injury), Osi would be a much needed upgrade in personnel. Personnel that's is becoming more and more suited towards what we employed last year.

The 3 players who were most suited to the 2011 defense, Haynesworth, Anderson and Carter are gone.
Regardless of 34 or 43, Umenyoura would be best used as a pass rusher playing 50-60% of the snaps in the sub package. He will be 31 this year, has an injury history, is not a good run defender, and is a streaky pass rusher who would help this team the most in that role.
We are a 34 base team, and he has no role in a 34, but what this team needs more than anything is a more effective sub package defense. This would be a fantastic pickup, but wearing him down while he struggles to play the run isn't the best use of the player.

 

[Aßßynormal]

That's a great point that I hadn't considered. The Pats are sure to get back a LEAST a 4th rounder as a comp pick if they couldn't work out a deal and a 3rd is likely. I'm starting to like this more and more

That would mean we were (more or less) inactive in Free Agency next year, else the offset would lower the value of the awarded pick.

I want a pass rusher for this year and would pay the one year cost. If we draft a Pass Rusher he'd have one year to develop as well as a potential Comp Pick (in whatever round).

On another note, cap strapped Dallas saw Spencer sign his Franchise Tender. He may be available and cost less. He's also more of our style of DE/LB, in that he contains and drives the QB as opposed to being flashy. Just a consideration. I've heard nothing about it though, still why did he sign the Tender?

 

[jcdavey]

i think the chargers may try for osi in a draft day trade

i don't think he's worth what he wants to get paid because he wants to be compensated on past performance, and i don't think he's going to live up to it in the future.

i see sd trying for him though because they wanted him badly as part of the eli rivers trade

 

[JimJohns]

i think the chargers may try for osi in a draft day trade

i don't think he's worth what he wants to get paid because he wants to be compensated on past performance, and i don't think he's going to live up to it in the future.

i see sd trying for him though because they wanted him badly as part of the eli rivers trade

He sounds like the defensive version of Welker, but you know, actually has rings to show for it. :bricks:

 

[jcdavey]

He sounds like the defensive version of Welker, but you know, actually has rings to show for it. :bricks:

he's someone who will more thank likely cash in eventually, if he has a solid 2012 wherever he ends up

i just wouldn't feel comfortable about my team paying alot for him right now, because i'm not sold he'll keep putting up solid numbers once he gets paid

i thought he was worth it when he proved himself after his year off , but right now he's just older and we've seen how well players play in NY's system, which seems to hurt his argument as well.

 

[ronbo80]

There's no way the giants deal Osi for a third round pick. They stand to gain nothing by doing that. The giants are gonna make Osi play out his existing contract knowing they'll be getting a highly motivated player trying to prove his worth to other teams next season....and when/if Osi signs with another team at the end of next year and the giants refuse to match the offer they'll probably be looking at a 4th or 5th round comp pick in return (depending on how well Osi performs in 2012-13). The way I see it there's zero upside for the giants in dealing Osi or working out a long term deal with him.

 

[patman52]

Then he'd be a one-year rental. Nobody is going to give up a 3rd round pick for that.

I would. You have to remember if he moves on we get the comp pick in 2014, which is most likely a late forth so that diminishes the price to a 4th value in my eyes.

I will go as far as to say this is a no brainer. Maybe the giants will be open to giving up our 62 for osi and the 94th.

 

[Hok]

You have to remember if he moves on we get the comp pick in 2014, which is most likely a late forth...

Comp picks are not awarded for individual players, but rather are given out based on total player movement. So, if we lost Osi but signed a comparable player, we'd get no comp pick.

 

[patman52]

There's no way the giants deal Osi for a third round pick. They stand to gain nothing by doing that. The giants are gonna make Osi play out his existing contract knowing they'll be getting a highly motivated player trying to prove his worth to other teams next season....and when/if Osi signs with another team at the end of next year and the giants refuse to match the offer they'll probably be looking at a 4th or 5th round comp pick in return (depending on how well Osi performs in 2012-13). The way I see it there's zero upside for the giants in dealing Osi or working out a long term deal with him.

They rid them selves of the headache and improve the locker room dynamic.
At this time they are 3.4 mill under the cap which is just enough to sign the rookies, and with no money for a practice squad or a contigency fund if a player needs to be added during the year. Trading Osi will allow both a practice squad and the ability to add a couple of street FA during the year.

 

[eagle eye]

Personally I'm a bit skeptical of this hitting the media just before the draft. Would the Giants be capable of using something like this as a strategy to fend off teams just ahead of them(i.e. Patriots) from trading out of their position and risking losing a DE? Most pundits believe that Coby Fleener will get picked at 32 or higher if the Colts move up.