Belichick + Patriots leagues best at drafting All-Pro Talent

[patfanken]

2006-2009 has Yielded Gostkowski, Meriweather, Mayo and Vollmer. BB jettisoned Meriweather when he was coming off of a Pro Bowl appearance, so we can assume that BB didn't consider him Pro Bowl caliber.
.

What I found interesting from your post was the number of "All Pro'" the Pats produced from that 2006-2008 era which many of us feel were among the worst years the Pats have had in the draft during the BB era.

Merriweather's problem wasn't about his talent, but about his coachability. He gave us 4 years of decent service. Like with many players we let go, not as good as we hoped, not as bad as it appeared.

BTW- you forgot Matthew Slater from your list.

I think the value of this article is to point out that while BB has made his share of draft mistakes, in the big picture, compared to the rest of league, he is well above average.

 

[Ring 6]

What I found interesting from your post was the number of "All Pro'" the Pats produced from that 2006-2008 era which many of us feel were among the worst years the Pats have had in the draft during the BB era.

Merriweather's problem wasn't about his talent, but about his coachability. He gave us 4 years of decent service. Like with many players we let go, not as good as we hoped, not as bad as it appeared.

BTW- you forgot Matthew Slater from your list.

I think the value of this article is to point out that while BB has made his share of draft mistakes, in the big picture, compared to the rest of league, he is well above average.

It is also pointless to debate 'draft haul' over any period of time without putting in context of the other 31 teams.
It ends up with silly arguments beause some people have unrealisti expetations in either direction. For example, some actually argue that if you trade down, gain 2 additional picks, and draft a player as good as you could have gotten with the original pick, its poor drafting because you got one good players out of 3 picks.
Simply listing the results of a teams draft tells you nothing without comparing to what other teams ended up with, thereby inluding the likelihood of success into the equation.

 

[Fencer]

2006-2009 has Yielded Gostkowski, Meriweather, Mayo and Vollmer. BB jettisoned Meriweather when he was coming off of a Pro Bowl appearance, so we can assume that BB didn't consider him Pro Bowl caliber.

Looking at it that way, and combining it with the rest of the drafted players for 2006-2009, we get a much different picture than the one you're trying to paint with your sarcasm. You've got a kicker, a top 10 pick that worked out as he should, and a RT. The rest of the 38 picks used during that time has yielded the following on the roster:

Chung
Pryor
Slater
Edelman
Brace

which means that the 2006-2009 period yielded a crappy ROI in terms of current roster players. So, as is so often the case when it comes to these discussions, the key is how you frame your argument.

That might be a counterargument to the claim that BB has had the best results in EACH of the past 10 years, or in each 4-year period in the past decade, or whatever. It's not much in the way of disproof to the theory that he's done well overall.

The other flaw I see in your reasoning is that even short-term production has value (e.g. Meriweather, or various JAG RTs that have shuffled in and out).

 

[Ring 6]

That might be a counterargument to the claim that BB has had the best results in EACH of the past 10 years, or in each 4-year period in the past decade, or whatever. It's not much in the way of disproof to the theory that he's done well overall.

The other flaw I see in your reasoning is that even short-term production has value (e.g. Meriweather, or various JAG RTs that have shuffled in and out).

The argument of 'this is what is left on the team' from drafts 3-6 years ago is flawed to begin with, unless taken in context of the rest of the league.
With an average NFL career span of something like 3 years, and most rookie contracts being 3 years or less, a large chunk of the results of the 06-07 drafts already happened on the field and is done.
An honest look at the 2007 draft would include that picks were traded for Welker and Moss and we had 1 pick in the first 3 rounds, and a ton from the 5th - 7th who stood little to no chance at making a roster than went 16-0. And also recognize that was a HORRIBLE draft and trading out of the 2nd and 3rd was smart, because you almost can't find a success there.
In any event, 'what's left on the team' can only be honestly argued if stacked against the other 31.
Of course, given that the Patriots have had more success than any team in those 10 years, should also indicate that they should have a lower rate of draft picks making the roster, because its a better roster they are trying to make.

 

[Deus Irae]

What I found interesting from your post was the number of "All Pro'" the Pats produced from that 2006-2008 era which many of us feel were among the worst years the Pats have had in the draft during the BB era.

Merriweather's problem wasn't about his talent, but about his coachability. He gave us 4 years of decent service. Like with many players we let go, not as good as we hoped, not as bad as it appeared.

BTW- you forgot Matthew Slater from your list.

I think the value of this article is to point out that while BB has made his share of draft mistakes, in the big picture, compared to the rest of league, he is well above average.

I didn't forget Slater. I listed him elsewhere in that post.

I agree with your last paragraph, by the way, as I've said before, and I've noted my opinion that BB has been as good as any drafting overall, even while talking about his struggles from 2006-2009. My problem was with the "interpretation" of the article by the O.P.. In going for the snark, the O.P. posted without bothering to think first.

 

[Deus Irae]

That might be a counterargument to the claim that BB has had the best results in EACH of the past 10 years, or in each 4-year period in the past decade, or whatever. It's not much in the way of disproof to the theory that he's done well overall.

The other flaw I see in your reasoning is that even short-term production has value (e.g. Meriweather, or various JAG RTs that have shuffled in and out).

Both of your assertions are erroneous, or misleading, in context of the discussion, but thanks for the response.

 

[Huckleberry1]

2006-2009 has Yielded Gostkowski, Meriweather, Mayo and Vollmer. BB jettisoned Meriweather when he was coming off of a Pro Bowl appearance, so we can assume that BB didn't consider him Pro Bowl caliber.

Looking at it that way, and combining it with the rest of the drafted players for 2006-2009, we get a much different picture than the one you're trying to paint with your sarcasm. You've got a kicker, a top 10 pick that worked out as he should, and a RT. The rest of the 38 picks used during that time has yielded the following on the roster:

Chung
Pryor
Slater
Edelman
Brace

which means that the 2006-2009 period yielded a crappy ROI in terms of current roster players. So, as is so often the case when it comes to these discussions, the key is how you frame your argument.

No doubt, it's just like the idiot homers who insist that Brady is a great QB when in truth he is not even in the top five between the 12:06 and 7:08 marks of the 2nd period, where his QBR is only 86.623, and his TD to INT is 12-4. As usual the armchair GM's are right and the homers are wrong, Brady is mediocre at best. Thank God we have the MENSA posters who see through the charade that is the Patriots.

 

[Deus Irae]

What I found interesting from your post was the number of "All Pro'" the Pats produced from that 2006-2008 era which many of us feel were among the worst years the Pats have had in the draft during the BB era.

I didn't address this earlier, sorry. The Patriots All Pro selections from 2006-2008 are a kicker, a special teams gunner and a top 10 draft pick. I don't find anything there particularly interesting, other than to note that those 3 players are all that's left of those drafts.

 

[Fencer]

I don't think the pick trades are very relevant to an analysis OF DRAFTING. (They're slightly relevant, but not very.)

They are of course highly relevant to an overall analysis of GMing.

The argument of 'this is what is left on the team' from drafts 3-6 years ago is flawed to begin with, unless taken in context of the rest of the league.
With an average NFL career span of something like 3 years, and most rookie contracts being 3 years or less, a large chunk of the results of the 06-07 drafts already happened on the field and is done.
An honest look at the 2007 draft would include that picks were traded for Welker and Moss and we had 1 pick in the first 3 rounds, and a ton from the 5th - 7th who stood little to no chance at making a roster than went 16-0. And also recognize that was a HORRIBLE draft and trading out of the 2nd and 3rd was smart, because you almost can't find a success there.
In any event, 'what's left on the team' can only be honestly argued if stacked against the other 31.
Of course, given that the Patriots have had more success than any team in those 10 years, should also indicate that they should have a lower rate of draft picks making the roster, because its a better roster they are trying to make.

 

[Fencer]

My problem was with the "interpretation" of the article by the O.P.. In going for the snark, the O.P. posted without bothering to think first.

This assumes, of course, that you're correctly inferring what the OP meant. I haven't yet managed to guess what you're basing your interpretation on.

 

[RayClay]

2006-2009 has Yielded Gostkowski, Meriweather, Mayo and Vollmer. BB jettisoned Meriweather when he was coming off of a Pro Bowl appearance, so we can assume that BB didn't consider him Pro Bowl caliber.

Looking at it that way, and combining it with the rest of the drafted players for 2006-2009, we get a much different picture than the one you're trying to paint with your sarcasm. You've got a kicker, a top 10 pick that worked out as he should, and a RT. The rest of the 38 picks used during that time has yielded the following on the roster:

Chung
Pryor
Slater
Edelman
Brace

which means that the 2006-2009 period yielded a crappy ROI in terms of current roster players. So, as is so often the case when it comes to these discussions, the key is how you frame your argument.

Looks like you're holding your glove a foot outside the plate waiting for an umpire assisted Tom Glavine strike.

[sorry for the baseball reference, but we are talking about framing here]

 

[Triumph]

really?

what are the "problems in the win column" they are suffering from, relative to their NFL competition?

Are there some 6-10 seasons I slept through?

NE had not won a post season game since 07 until last season.

When the NFL starts awarding trophies for regular season wins get back to me.

 

[Triumph]

BB is bad at Drafting ?

If you're bad at something that means you're below average. So you can name 16 teams who have drafted better than the Patriots in the last 12 years LOL!!!

Don't do what these other idiots do a pick a specific year or pick. He's been here since 2000 compare all his drafts to all the drafts of other teams during that time. You won't find more than 3 teams that are in the Patriots league.

OH NO! That Bedard.

He also states that if Tate, Jackson and Price had worked out, that you dont need worthless Chad Cinco. How dare he tell those lies.

Patriots’ draft success is a judgment call - The Boston Globe

“I think obviously the thing New England has always done a good job of has been when they’ve made a mistake, they cut their losses,’’ said Lombardi, who was Bill Belichick’s personnel man with the Browns.


That would explain why the Patriots have the highest bust percentage (28 percent) among similarly successful teams in that period. The Eagles (23), Ravens (19), and Packers and Steelers (18) follow.

 

[Deus Irae]

Looks like you're holding your glove a foot outside the plate waiting for an umpire assisted Tom Glavine strike.

[sorry for the baseball reference, but we are talking about framing here]

No need to apologize. Interesting that you chose to play the role of the blind umpire, though.

 

[Clonamery]

NE had not won a post season game since 07 until last season.

When the NFL starts awarding trophies for regular season wins get back to me.

Man, too bad they don't have an award for the biggest-effin-cry-baby fan award. You'd triumph.

No need to get back to me, I know your feelings, grab a hankie and blow.

 

[Triumph]

Man, too bad they don't have an award for the biggest-effin-cry-baby fan award. You'd triumph.

No need to get back to me, I know your feelings, grab a hankie and blow.

Yo Homery.

Its about Championships. Winning them.

 

[IllegalContact]

the actual number is 24....I think...I may have missed something, but I don't think so.

2002 - gannon, seymour
2003 - seymour, bruschi, law
2004 - seymour, bruschi
2005 - brady, seymour
2006 - seymour
2007 - brady, light, mankins, koppen, wilfork, samuel
2008 -
2009 - mankins
2010 - brady, mankins, vollmer, wilfork, mccourty
2011 - wilfork, seymour

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

the actual number is 24....I think...I may have missed something, but I don't think so.

2002 - gannon, seymour
2003 - seymour, bruschi, law
2004 - seymour, bruschi
2005 - brady, seymour
2006 - seymour
2007 - brady, light, mankins, koppen, wilfork, samuel
2008 -
2009 - mankins
2010 - brady, mankins, vollmer, wilfork, mccourty
2011 - wilfork, seymour

All Pro not Pro Bowl

 

[Shockt327]

No doubt, it's just like the idiot homers who insist that Brady is a great QB when in truth he is not even in the top five between the 12:06 and 7:08 marks of the 2nd period, where his QBR is only 86.623, and his TD to INT is 12-4. As usual the armchair GM's are right and the homers are wrong, Brady is mediocre at best. Thank God we have the MENSA posters who see through the charade that is the Patriots.

BAM!

This post totally nails Deus's argument.

It's like in baseball. You got a good hitter who can, often enough, go 3 for 4 with a home run in a single game. It's great. But a player can't do that every game. Batting .750 with 162 home runs is just not going to happen. That's what Deus expects in the draft. He expects to hit on 1s and 2s every year. It just isn't realistic, and he doesn't acknowledge it. Why?

Well, for starters, there aren't any clear cut statistical metrics to evaluate a draft. There is no batting average. Hell, the OP just posted a chart that is just about as close as you'll get. The Pats are in great shape. Yet -- to bring it back to that baseball analogy -- people like Deus look at that 3 for 4 w/ 1 home run game and expect it every time. Then, when that same great player has an inevitable slump for a few games (like 2006-2008); people like Deus start to whine. They rationalize it by attempting to make the claim that they know what constitutes a poor game (or draft). Maybe so. But context is everything.

You simply cannot look at 2006-2008 without looking at what came before...and especially after. Cause 2008 was a while ago; and we're still harping on this? It wasn't as good as 2001-2004, agreed. But those drafts were huge. It's simply not realistic to expect that every year. On that same level, you really cannot look at 2006-2008 and only compare it to the Patriots other drafts. It's like arguing that our ball player should only be graded on his slump. Rather, you need a league-wide comparison. With that being said, how the Patriots drafted in 2006-2008 (their biggest slump) was still on par with, if not outright above, the rest of the NFL. So yeah. When Belichick is at his worst; he's still on par with the league average.

 

[Clonamery]

Yo Homery.

Its about Championships. Winning them.

Yup.

Every year.