Should Goodell continue to require teams to release Injury reports?

[JoeSixPat]

As we all know, Belichick has long been reluctant to cooperate with Goodell's requirement that he tell coaches and opposing players intent on hurting his players where to target those players to take them out of the game. We have seen him consistently play coy with injury reports and even has a long running phantom injury to Brady's shoulder likely to throw guys like Williams off.

Now with the proof that Gregg Williams was doing exactly that, and with the lingering question of whether other players or coaches might quietly be doing the same thing, doesn't it behoove Goodell to put player safety ahead of various interests, both legal and illegal, that depend on an accurate Las Vegas line, crafted with knowledge of player injury?

Unless I'm missing something it's only gambling interests that really need to know which players are playing and which are injured and where they are injured.

Keeping other coaches and players in the dark prevents them for preparing to face a backup, but all coaches and teams would be on an even playing field if such medical information were kept private. Overall I see no downside to protecting vulnerable players, unless one works for a mob bookie.

It will be interesting to see if in the light of the Gregg Williams scandal if Goodell continues to put the interests of the mafia ahead of the safety of the players.

It's nice to know now that in this case Belichick has always had the higher moral ground than Goodell, who may find himself asked how long he knew about even limited practices of coaches and players targeting the injured, and why he continued to put gambling interests ahead of player safety.

 

[Peachhead]

+1 gazillion! :agree:

 

[BTTA]

I like the way you have framed this.

 

[patman52]

The reason for the rule is an attempt to hinder gamblers from obtaining injury information that may move a line. Janitors cleaning up locker rooms could sell info on who has a wrapped knee, walking with limps etc.

The nfl is so closely tied in with gambling, that no thought of Vegas or Bookies getting any information can be tolerated.

BB can continue to say leg and not say whether it is an ankle, knee, hamstring or what ever, sometimes he does not even say what leg it is. That is ok with the NFL as long as the- not likely, questionable, or probable designation are followed.

No hint of vegas having info on injuries that are not available to the masses can be tolerated.

 

[JoeSixPat]

The reason for the rule is an attempt to hinder gamblers from obtaining injury information that may move a line. Janitors cleaning up locker rooms could sell info on who has a wrapped knee, walking with limps etc.

The nfl is so closely tied in with gambling, that no thought of Vegas or Bookies getting any information can be tolerated.

BB can continue to say leg and not say whether it is an ankle, knee, hamstring or what ever, sometimes he does not even say what leg it is. That is ok with the NFL as long as the- not likely, questionable, or probable designation are followed.

No hint of vegas having info on injuries that are not available to the masses can be tolerated.

Yes... That's been the long standing reason stated by the league... To keep an even playing field for gambling interests whether they be legal, illegal or mob-run.

As long as Goodell is on the record about prioritizing gambling interests higher than player safety I'm fine with letting him continue to insist on letting the Gregg Williams' of the NFL know where best to target.

Better in Goodell's eyes to foster a system that could have a player injured for life rather than allow a mafia bookie to gain an unfair advantage.

Belichick seems like he's long understood how disclosing injuries results in a competitive disadvantage and perhaps places the long term health of his players at risk.

But while Goodell has been incredibly self-righteous about everything from tampering to the placement of cameras on the field rather than in the stands, he might want to consider HIS role in enabling the Gregg Williams' of the NFL to engage in what could be considered attempted murder by some.

 

[lurker1965]

...

"Hey, under paid trainer, here is $10,000 to tell me who is really injured so I can have an advantage over other bettors that are in the dark."

It adds a bunch of potential corruption. 53 players x 32 teams = 1,664. Oh, add 32 DCs = 1,696.

How many trainers, janitors, whatever?

1,696 or so to tell not to injure each other on purpose.
Unknown number to tell all secrets too so there is no gambling advantage to bribe someone.

Both are high numbers. The smaller one is easier to control.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Well done, Joe. Well done.
I doubt that so-called sports "reporters" will grill Goodell on this obvious issue of safety >>> level betting field. They're too busy re-hashing Spygate incorrectly.

Who cares if some bettors have an advantage? If it's known that some do so, then only fools will bet. Sorry for the redundancy.

 

[lurker1965]

Well done, Joe. Well done.
I doubt that so-called sports "reporters" will grill Goodell on this obvious issue of safety >>> level betting field. They're too busy re-hashing Spygate incorrectly.

Who cares if some bettors have an advantage? If it's known that some do so, then only fools will bet. Sorry for the redundancy.

Then the fools bribe, say, the wife of the plumber who fixed the ice bath.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Well done, Joe. Well done.
I doubt that so-called sports "reporters" will grill Goodell on this obvious issue of safety >>> level betting field. They're too busy re-hashing Spygate incorrectly.

Who cares if some bettors have an advantage? If it's known that some do so, then only fools will bet. Sorry for the redundancy.

I've been suggesting that Mike Florio give this matter the attention it deserves for awhile now... Looks like he finally did. Williams’ remarks brings injury reports back into focus | ProFootballTalk

Hopefully others in the media aren't afraid to note that the Emperor has no clothes on this matter...

No one wants to see a dishonest janitor sell information to the mafia - but I'd rather see that than know that a player forced to disclose a history of concussions or other physical vulnerability was injured for life because the Commissioner felt player safety was less important than lucrative gambling interests.

Any coach who DOES put player safety first is looking at a big fine from Goodell.

In essence, Belichick was right and Goodell was wrong...

 

[neuronet]

As long as Goodell is on the record about prioritizing gambling interests higher than player safety I'm fine with letting him continue to insist on letting the Gregg Williams' of the NFL know where best to target.

Right-o. :ditto:

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

sorry, but the whole premise here is flawed, that having this list "helps gamblers".

Having the current injury policy makes an injury report official and thus prevents illegal associations driven by gamblers probing for "secret" injury info. It is meant to lessen the possibility of club personnel having such illegal gambling associations.

I would agree that the list does tell opponents what to target, and that is as serious issue, though the Saints punishment is consistent with the goals of player safety and the notion that using this info in targeting players for injury knock-out is unacceptable.

Bottom line, the verbiage you are using to address this issue, JoeSixPat, is very deceiving.

There are indeed legitimate reasons to ponder and debate whether the injury list policies should be adjusted or abolished, but the argument that the NFL somehow cares more about the well-being of gamblers than players is pretty bizarre and, as Carl Sagan would have said, a serious claim requiring equally serious evidence.

 

[brady199]

the injury list helps bookmakers in Vegas, but it also is a huge thing for people who play Fantasy Football. Both Gambling and Fantasy Football, keep casual fans coming back for more, I don't think either one can be underestimated how much $ they generate for the NFL, and as we know it's a bottom line business.

 

[Mystery Pats Fan]

Injury reports are a farce.

 

[JoeSixPat]

sorry, but the whole premise here is flawed, that having this list "helps gamblers".

Having the current injury policy makes an injury report official and thus prevents illegal associations driven by gamblers probing for "secret" injury info. It is meant to lessen the possibility of club personnel having such illegal gambling associations.

I would agree that the list does tell opponents what to target, and that is as serious issue, though the Saints punishment is consistent with the goals of player safety and the notion that using this info in targeting players for injury knock-out is unacceptable.

Bottom line, the verbiage you are using to address this issue, JoeSixPat, is very deceiving.

There are indeed legitimate reasons to ponder and debate whether the injury list policies should be adjusted or abolished, but the argument that the NFL somehow cares more about the well-being of gamblers than players is pretty bizarre and, as Carl Sagan would have said, a serious claim requiring equally serious evidence.

You really don't think the Las Vegas and Mafia odds makers make the injury report a huge factor in their odds?

Seriously?

 

[JoeSixPat]

Florio continues to give attention to this issue - frankly I'm surprised its been overlooked by most.

Could Williams’ audio revolutionize injury reports? | ProFootballTalk

Ultimately this is vindication for Belichick's clear disdain for the injury report and calls into question the Commissioner's decision to fine coaches who protect player health.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

You really don't think the Las Vegas and Mafia odds makers make the injury report a huge factor in their odds?

Seriously?

I am not a gambler, but I have noticed lines move significantly based upon the information that a player did not practice.

The more appropriate question is the flip side of the equation:

If injury information were covered up completely, and there was no obligation to disclose who is even able to participate in practices, would odds makers be then be tripping all over themselves by any means necessary, including getting this information through an inside informant, player /coach /janitor /caterer /trainer's assistant whomever they can get their mitts on?

Such information is devalued, because it is disclosed for free. Sure there are levels of compliance by the teams and reliability of the injury information, but from a gambling point of view I see nondisclosure as a path to rampant corruption, a path to having internal spies within teams being obligated to gambling interests.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I am not a gambler, but I have noticed lines move significantly based upon the information that a player did not practice.

The more appropriate question is the flip side of the equation:

If injury information were covered up completely, and there was no obligation to disclose who is even able to participate in practices, would odds makers be then be tripping all over themselves by any means necessary, including getting this information through an inside informant, player /coach /janitor /caterer /trainer's assistant whomever they can get their mitts on?

Such information is devalued, because it is disclosed for free. Sure there are levels of compliance by the teams and reliability of the injury information, but from a gambling point of view I see nondisclosure as a path to rampant corruption, a path to having internal spies within teams being obligated to gambling interests.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that practices be relocated to Siberia to foster absolute secrecy

... Simply a change in the status quo of following Goodell's orders to tell the Gregg Williams' of the NFL which body parts to target or accept a fine.

 

[Frezo]

I am not a gambler, but I have noticed lines move significantly based upon the information that a player did not practice.

The more appropriate question is the flip side of the equation:

If injury information were covered up completely, and there was no obligation to disclose who is even able to participate in practices, would odds makers be then be tripping all over themselves by any means necessary, including getting this information through an inside informant, player /coach /janitor /caterer /trainer's assistant whomever they can get their mitts on?

Such information is devalued, because it is disclosed for free. Sure there are levels of compliance by the teams and reliability of the injury information, but from a gambling point of view I see nondisclosure as a path to rampant corruption, a path to having internal spies within teams being obligated to gambling interests.

Given the vagueness of injury reports, if you think that what you stated would happen if they went away, then you must be as convinced as I that it"s going on now anyway. There is a great deal of info an insider could get that isn't available in a report. With the amount of money at stake even a small tip could lead to an unfair advantage.

 

[WhiZa]

the injury list helps bookmakers in Vegas, but it also is a huge thing for people who play Fantasy Football. Both Gambling and Fantasy Football, keep casual fans coming back for more, I don't think either one can be underestimated how much $ they generate for the NFL, and as we know it's a bottom line business.

This is sad, but true.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

... Simply a change in the status quo of following Goodell's orders to tell the Gregg Williams' of the NFL which body parts to target or accept a fine.

or make sure that there are no more like Gregg Williams coaching in the NFL.

Tough to do, but has none of the downsides.