Linebackers 2012

[patsfan13]

Lots of worry about our OLB play going into next year. Who to draft and so on. We know that in this D you don't get production right away from a rookie at that position. So how can we improve there next year.

Currently we have 11 LB's on the roster, inc guys who were on the PS last year.

Let's look at the guys who figure to be on the roster:

Mayo
Ninkovich
Spikes
Fletcher
White

So for the other 3 slots we are looking at (currently)

Cunningham
Tarpinian
Carter
Koutouvides
Rivera
Scott (he is listed as a DL on Patriots.com)


When looking at the LB's we ned to remember that we are in sub packages > 50% of the time where we only hve 3 and sometimes 2 Lb's on the field. IOW we don't need 4 3 down players.


For PLB we have Ninko who has turned into a solid player. Everyone else is a big question mark. Cunningham had a good rookie year last year was a disaster. Scott has been god but is coming off an injury. Koutouvides is White but not as good either on ST's on when he playes D snaps.Rivera I know nothing about. Tarpinian played a little not sure of his upside. Carter is very interesting cmae from a small school but seems to have all the physical tools to be good, showed a lot of effort getting recognized for his work with the scout teams, he could be a big plesant surprise.



Most people want to see a LB drafted early (like every year )Preferable an OLB. I saw that one of the ESPN draft guru's had us taking Hightower from Ala which seems illogical sine the ILB group seems stronger and has pretty good depth (even though we only want to see White playing ST's and not taking D snaps).


Why would we use a #1 pick on an ILB? it doesn't make sense, but I could see it happening, here's why. Maybe we have the best OLB option on the roster already...... Mayo. We we were playing the 4-3 looks in preseason he played a lot at OLB and looked very explosive and a guy who could dominate and give us a pass rush there. BB has had an easier time finding ILB's than the elusive OLB.

I could live very easily with Fletcher and Spikes as the starters and a rookie (Kuechly or Hightower), with Mayo and Ninko starting outside. The development of Sikes and Fletcher makes this possible IMO. Then you see about Cunninghan, Carter and Scott (unless Scott is being projected as a sub package DE) as the backups.


If Cunningham were to improve from his rookie year (with a good offseason) and Carter can adapt to the pro game and leverage his great physical skills. We could have a nice froup.

Mayo rushing for the ourside has a lot of appeal to me.


So ILB:

Spikes
Fletcher
White
Draft Pick

OLB

Mayo
Ninko
2 of Cunningham, Carter, Koutouvides, Tarpinian

Treat Scott as a DE for the purposes of this conversation as per the roster listed at Patiots.com


Flame away

 

[Sciz]

Mayo isn't playing 3-4 OLB. If they're playing 4-3, then the need is at DE instead.

 

[patsfan13]

Mayo isn't playing 3-4 OLB. If they're playing 4-3, then the need is at DE instead.

What if they are playing ahybrid as they were during the second half of last season...

 

[Deus Irae]

Spikes and Mayo are the ILBs. Spikes will come out on passing downs, to be replaced either by a pass defending ILB or a safety. Ninkovich is starting at one OLB spot. The other OLB spot is up for grabs.

The reason that people want the Patriots to draft an OLB is because they're tired of the team having lousy OLB play. So, rather than screw around and weaken the ILB play by moving Mayo, let's hope the team gets a good OLB.

Let's not try to out-think the room.

 

[Boomer B]

Spikes and Mayo are the ILBs. Spikes will come out on passing downs, to be replaced either by a pass defening ILB or a safety. Ninkovich is starting at one OLB spot. The other OLB spot is up for grabs.

The reason that people want the Patriots to draft an OLB is because they're tired of the team having lousy OLB play. So, rather than screw around and weaken the ILB play by moving Mayo, let's hope the team gets a good OLB.

Let's not try to out-think the room.

So true. Why move Mayo and weaken themselves on the inside to put him outside where he hasn't proven a thing. Makes no sense at all.

They need to either draft or pick up an OLB who can rush the QB.

 

[Sciz]

What if they are playing ahybrid as they were during the second half of last season...

Outside of a few 3rd down sets where everybody is on the line of scrimmage, Mayo is going to be between the tackles and a few yards past the line of scrimmage on every snap. Whether it's as an ILB in the 3-4, OLB or ILB in the 4-3, or just a linebacker in a formation with more than 4 DBs, Mayo isn't going to be at the end of a formation on the line of scrimmage like a 3-4 OLB or 4-3 DE would be.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

We really need Cunningham to pull it all together this year. Having a healthy Fletcher back helps. I'd really like BB to draft a stud OLB. As usual, he is not responding to my emails about WHO that should be

 

[NewFeep]

We really need Cunningham to pull it all together this year. Having a healthy Fletcher back helps. I'd really like BB to draft a stud OLB. As usual, he is not responding to my emails about WHO that should be

I'm shocked.........

 

[mgteich]

I agree with you that Mayo is an ILB and that Mayo is not the solution to the team's weakness at OLB.

Posters here have believed that answer is to draft their favorite 3-4 pass-rusher. This has been our answer for several years. Surely our favorite must be better than what Belichick has chosen.

The bottom line is that such posters apparently have a different approach to building a defense that Belichick does. No problem.

FWIW, I think that we ALL would like to draft a stud pass-rushing OLB (including Belichick). Some have argued that there are 1 or 2 of these players in the draft. Some think that there are many, and we will surely be able to find our stud. I would note that over the years, these players tended to be conversion projects which Belichick apparently values much less than we do.

MY BOTTOM LINE
There are many ways to improve a defense. Drafting a couple of DE's works for me. They are indeed available. But I am fine with also drafting an OLB early.

It is early yet, but raely have I seen such a consensus here on our draft priorities. I suspect a large majority would be very happy if we drafted 2 DE/OLB's, a free safety, and perhaps a WR by the end of the 4th round.

Spikes and Mayo are the ILBs. Spikes will come out on passing downs, to be replaced either by a pass defending ILB or a safety. Ninkovich is starting at one OLB spot. The other OLB spot is up for grabs.

The reason that people want the Patriots to draft an OLB is because they're tired of the team having lousy OLB play. So, rather than screw around and weaken the ILB play by moving Mayo, let's hope the team gets a good OLB.

Let's not try to out-think the room.

 

[Deus Irae]

...It is early yet, but raely have I seen such a consensus here on our draft priorities. I suspect a large majority would be very happy if we drafted 2 DE/OLB's, a free safety, and perhaps a WR by the end of the 4th round.

I think it's largely because BB has recovered from his pre-2010 doldrums and put together a pretty complete team. Yes, it probably needs one more WR, yes we'd all love to know that there's a legitimate RB1 somewhere on the roster, and yes we'd all feel better if a big-time OL prospect was brought in for the interior of the line, but I think the vast majority of posters are largely satisfied with the offense.

That leaves the defense, and it's not surprising that DE/OLB are the two places people look first. The loss of Anderson, the injury to Carter and the lack of quality OLB in recent years make that a pretty easy 'pair' of positions to begin asking for in the draft.

So, kudos to BB for putting together a roster that the vast majority of posters from all segments of the board (homers/doubters/middle) see very similarly.

 

[DarrylS]

You do not weaken a position of strength (ILB) to strengthen a position of need (OLB)...

 

[ATippett56]

Potential collegiate defensive end conversions to 3-4 outside linebackers:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/13/864603-2012-draft-defensive-ends.html

 

[Joker]

let me take a stab at this...BB uses the first pick to take an OLman...he then trades down and out of the 1st round picking up a 2 and a 3 or 4...he then trades the higher 2 for 2 threes, uses the remaining 2 on a D lineman or trades down from there....seen this movie before

 

[BaltimorePatsFan]

No way Cunningham makes the team.

 

[manxman2601]

Most people want to see a LB drafted early (like every year )Preferable an OLB. I saw that one of the ESPN draft guru's had us taking Hightower from Ala which seems illogical sine the ILB group seems stronger and has pretty good depth (even though we only want to see White playing ST's and not taking D snaps).


Why would we use a #1 pick on an ILB? it doesn't make sense, but I could see it happening, here's why. Maybe we have the best OLB option on the roster already...... Mayo. We we were playing the 4-3 looks in preseason he played a lot at OLB and looked very explosive and a guy who could dominate and give us a pass rush there. BB has had an easier time finding ILB's than the elusive OLB.

It actually makes more sense than you think. Hightower was used by Alabama as a rusher on passing downs last year, and whilst he didn't put up the sack numbers, looked effective rushing the passer. What's more, the Patriots seem to be making a concerted effort to look at later round pass rush specialists in this draft. Hightower might be the best value at #27 and I could see him being drafted, working as a 3-4 OLB in the base defense where he provides the run defense BB covets at the position whilst also drafting a later round pass rush specialist who subs in for either Hightower or Ninkovich on passing downs. That might be a better approach than investing a high pick on an Andre Branch/Vinny Curry who may struggle to pick up the system from the off.

Scott has been god but is coming off an injury

Here's hoping but I feel it might be a little early to annoint him just yet.

 

[IllegalContact]

the pats just need to improve at OLB/pass rush.

I'm tired of all these 'hybrids' that take opponents 5 minutes of watching game film to exploit.the defense needs to be able to rush 5 or put 8 in coverage without changing personnel. case closed.

go draft cox, perry, and mclellin.........and go with it

 

[Ring 6]

When looking at the LB's we ned to remember that we are in sub packages > 50% of the time where we only hve 3 and sometimes 2 Lb's on the field. IOW we don't need 4 3 down players.

I just want to focus on this comment. If we are a 34 team, the OLBs become the DEs in the sub package. So in a nickel we 4 "LBs" and in the dime we need 3.

 

[Ring 6]

let me take a stab at this...BB uses the first pick to take an OLman...he then trades down and out of the 1st round picking up a 2 and a 3 or 4...he then trades the higher 2 for 2 threes, uses the remaining 2 on a D lineman or trades down from there....seen this movie before

No you haven't.

 

[patchick]

Lots of worry about our OLB play going into next year. Who to draft and so on. We know that in this D you don't get production right away from a rookie at that position. So how can we improve there next year.

You know what? I'm not sure we know that at all.

Remember how four years ago, we all knew for sure that the hardest position to draft for and plug in right away was ILB? It took years to learn, right? Especially since so few college players were experienced with the stack-and-shed world of the Pats-style 3-4, let alone the responsibility for setting the defense.

Since then, of course, we've seen 2 rookies as day-1 starters at ILB, and a 3rd who was a small-school DL in college playing meaningful snaps at ILB by the end of his rookie year.

The plain fact is that the BB Patriots have yet to draft a single quality starting OLB. Given that, how can we guess at how long it would take such a player to contribute?

 

[manxman2601]

You know what? I'm not sure we know that at all.

Remember how four years ago, we all knew for sure that the hardest position to draft for and plug in right away was ILB? It took years to learn, right? Especially since so few college players were experienced with the stack-and-shed world of the Pats-style 3-4, let alone the responsibility for setting the defense.

Since then, of course, we've seen 2 rookies as day-1 starters at ILB, and a 3rd who was a small-school DL in college playing meaningful snaps at ILB by the end of his rookie year.

The plain fact is that the BB Patriots have yet to draft a single quality starting OLB. Given that, how can we guess at how long it would take such a player to contribute?

That begs the question why not? Is it that BB doesn't value the position as much as us fans do, or is it that he himself thinks it's difficult for a rookie (or someone inexperienced in the system) to learn the position. Don't forget, he bought in Andre Carter and Mark Anderson and then switched defenses rather than try to force their round pegs into his favoured square hole. I hope one day we get to find out why BB and pass rushers don't mix.