Ridley

[ProudestRyno]

Debating pure talent? Now, THAT'S stupid. Bethel Johnson, anyone?

Coaches give players the ball when they have confidence in them. And you're saying coaches trust is a stupid way to judge talent? You DO know who the Pats HC is, right?

You take speedy, less proven, less trusted guy. I get it. Fine.

I'll take slower surehanded TD-scoring guy.

Keep judging based off TDs. TDs are about opportunity. Just cause BJGE gets tds from the goaline doesnt mean Ridley couldnt if Ridley werent in there.

BJGE gets them because he's the veteran who never fumbles, not because he's the better overall RB.

 

[oldrover]

Running backs translate pure talent MUCH easier than WRs do. You're really stretching there.

Ever heard of Lawrence Maroney? Maybe you'd prefer him to BJGE too.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Ever heard of Lawrence Maroney? Maybe you'd prefer him to BJGE too.

I think he just prefers Ridley getting the bulk of the carries, the way he's been getting the last 4 weeks as per the coaching staff's decision.

 

[oldrover]

Absolutely... since BJGE's been dinged up. My point exactly. Thank you.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Absolutely... since BJGE's been dinged up. My point exactly. Thank you.

Dinged up but also extremely limited even when healthy. The real question is whether Ridley has shown enough during that span to merit having the ball in the postseason. IMO its just a matter of when this happens not if.

 

[Patspsycho]

Dinged up but also extremely limited even when healthy. The real question is whether Ridley has shown enough during that span to merit having the ball in the postseason. IMO its just a matter of when this happens not if.

Extremely limited, how? If running for 1000+ yards was easy, why haven't we had something like that since 2004?

 

[ausbacker]

Running backs translate pure talent MUCH easier than WRs do. You're really stretching there.

Ridley is a better runner than BJGE. Period. I'm not sure how anyone can really dispute that?

Because in critical situations BB turns to Green-Ellis, turf toe and all not Ridley just yet.

It doesn't take a MENSA candidate to work that out.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Extremely limited, how? If running for 1000+ yards was easy, why haven't we had something like that since 2004?

Well you have to actually look at who's been playing RB here in that span. 1,000 yards in a vacuum isn't as impressive as it used to be when RB's are going for 1,000 like it's nothing. There were 15 1,000 yard backs this year. But in actuality if it were not for injury there should've been more like 22. With notable guys like Matt Forte, Fred Jackson Darren Mcfadden and AP not getting there. 22 out of 32 says that getting 1,000 is no longer special it's more like average.

He's limited because he doesn't create and just takes what's there. That's fine and I like having a RB that doesn't fumble etc. But he's not dynamic enough to bail out the passing game by changing the way the D defends him. Ridley or any RB with big play ability can make you pay for sending out 7 DB's.

We have seen the offense stall the previous two playoff games we've been in, so this is a very plausible scenario.

 

[VJCPatriot]

1. So does Ridley, except he gets more yds than BJGE does.
2. Ridley has fumbled ONCE.
3. BJGE scores touchdowns from within the 5 because he's the back that's in there (because of his experience and the coaches trust in him).

I'm confident Ridley could pick up those TDs as well if given the chance. So lets not debate their pure talent as a runner based soley on opportunity from the coaches...It's a pretty stupid way to judge things, no? If anything, he deserves credit for being able to be counted on. He's counted on to be ORDINARY. He's nothing special as a RB, just reliable at being mediocre and holding onto the ball.

And yep, Ridley is faster than BJGE. Along with having betterr quickness, lateral movement, vision. You name it. The ONE thing BJGE has on Ridley as a pure runner is his ability to hang onto the football better than anyone.

But give me the guy who is WAY more explosive and talented as a runner who has one fumble this year over the guy who doesnt fumble but is a lower level talent as a pure runner.

Ridley is looking awesome! I expect him to take over the starter role in 2012. BJGE will take the GL back role. That is if he doesn't want too much money in the offseason as a free agent. The Pats have leverage in negotiations because Ridley is here!

 

[patsinthesnow]

2010 BJGE was a one of the league's most underrated players. 1,000 yards at a very good 4.4 ypc, 13 TDs, 0 fumbles,powerful, and would usually break the initial tackle. Although he was slow, he had enough initial burst for many 5-10 yard runs.

2011 BJGE is not the same player. Ever since his career game against the Jets in week 5, where he injured his toe, he hasn't been the same. He has a very bad 3.7ypc, and looks slower with less burst. Toe injuries linger, and Ridley should be getting the majority of the carries because of BJGE's ineffectiveness, although I like BJGE in goalline still.

I hope BJGE is resigned cheap in the offseason (1-2 million/yr, 3 years). He'll return to form, and it'd be great to have depth behind Ridley. He could even be groomed into a FB, great team player.

 

[Patspsycho]

Well you have to actually look at who's been playing RB here in that span. 1,000 yards in a vacuum isn't as impressive as it used to be when RB's are going for 1,000 like it's nothing. There were 15 1,000 yard backs this year. But in actuality if it were not for injury there should've been more like 22. With notable guys like Matt Forte, Fred Jackson Darren Mcfadden and AP not getting there. 22 out of 32 says that getting 1,000 is no longer special it's more like average.

He's limited because he doesn't create and just takes what's there. That's fine and I like having a RB that doesn't fumble etc. But he's not dynamic enough to bail out the passing game by changing the way the D defends him. Ridley or any RB with big play ability can make you pay for sending out 7 DB's.

We have seen the offense stall the previous two playoff games we've been in, so this is a very plausible scenario.

Not with just 229 attempts. Out of the 17 1,000 rushers last season, he had the 3rd lowest attempts. Also 7 out of those 17 rushers had in excess of 300 attempts.

He had no part of the first playoff game that you're speaking of; however last year he had only 9 attempts (even though his YPC was 4.8), so are you saying the offense stalled because of that?

 

[BlueThunder]

Pats running game should be all set for awhile......I like who they have back there to carry the load.....RBBC is fine....

 

[Ring 6]

Not with just 229 attempts. Out of the 17 1,000 rushers last season, he had the 3rd lowest attempts. Also 7 out of those 17 rushers had in excess of 300 attempts.

This is kind of twisting the facts.
BJGE had the most rushing attempts, by 30, of any RB since Dillons last 1000+ season. You can't credit him for being the only guy to get 1000 without noting the carries then say he only just eclipsed 100 because he didnt get a lot of carries.
I don't know why the 1000 yards is such a lynchpin to your argument.

BGJE had 50.44% of the teams rushes in 2010.
The top rusher the prior 4 years had:
2009 41.63
2008 30.41
2007 41.02
2006 39.88

and this year BJGE has 32.22% of the carries.

It seems rather apparent that the philosophy should result in about 40% of the rushes going to the "#1" back and the other 60% going to 3rd down back, backups, QB, etc.
So the 1000 yard season is more a function of extra carries because of the lack of health of backups than because of a special amount of talent.

To further illustrate this, the commbined rushing yards/attmets by season were":
2006 1969/499
2007 1849/451
2008 2278/513
2009 1921/466
2010 1973/454

There is a remarkable amount of similarity there. It would seem that the extra 45 carries BJGE got due to getting 50% vs the customary 40% (due to Fred Taylor, Kevin Faulk and Sammy Morris injuries) were not additionally productive, as "the only guy to get 1000" would imply.

Now as we move forward to 2011, which really is the issue, the running game has been the worst since Dillon. 438 carries 1764 yards represent the lowest of the era, and BJGEs 664 yards and 3.7 a carry are the worst by the leading carrier since Antowain Smith in 2003.
When you consider that Ridley has average 5.1 and all running plays not to BJGE have average 4.3 while BJGE is 3.7, you should realize that trying to support BJGE with a statistical argument is not your best choice.
I am not trashing BJGE. He had a nice year in 2010, and he does bring qualities to the table. But the eye test clearly, IMO, favors Ridley, and the statistical argument hurts BJGE more than it helps.
IMO, he is what he appears to be, a capable NFL player who belongs on the field in some role, but someone you would be looking to upgrade.

 

[Ring 6]

Pats running game should be all set for awhile......I like who they have back there to carry the load.....RBBC is fine....

Do you expect them top resign BJGE in the off-season?
I have not expected it. I think BJGE will expect '1000 yard rusher money' and the Pats with Ridley, Vereen and Woodhead would not be willing to pay that for a piece of the committee.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Not with just 229 attempts. Out of the 17 1,000 rushers last season, he had the 3rd lowest attempts. Also 7 out of those 17 rushers had in excess of 300 attempts.

He had no part of the first playoff game that you're speaking of; however last year he had only 9 attempts (even though his YPC was 4.8), so are you saying the offense stalled because of that?

I'm curious, of those 17 how many played with elite quarterbacks? I would be willing to wager that not many if any at all ever face a defense that is almost exclusively playing for the pass. Being the RB here in NE has to be one of the sweetest gigs in the NFL. There is no excuse to avg less than 4 a pop when you are always facing nickel and dime defenses.

I would love to see what Ridley's numbers would be getting 50% of the overall carries like BJGE did last year. If we use his YPC this year he would've been sitting at over 1100 yards. He wouldn't haven needed the very last game to get over the mark.

Another indication that Ridley is far and away a bigger threat to a defense is his 5 20+ yard runs this season in only 87 attempts. In BJGE's 1,008 yard season he had only 4 20+ yard runs in 229 attempts.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Do you expect them top resign BJGE in the off-season?
I have not expected it. I think BJGE will expect '1000 yard rusher money' and the Pats with Ridley, Vereen and Woodhead would not be willing to pay that for a piece of the committee.

I think they should resign him to something very reasonable if possible with Faulk retiring, we will suddenly be very young at that position. From a fiduciary standpoint I would understand if BJGE tries to get all he can on the open market. That could also blow up in his face as he isn't asked to be anything he isn't in this offense and we frankly don't ask much from our RB's. We are a predominantly passing team and rely heavily on Brady. I think BJGE will be exposed if he goes elsewhere and is asked to do too much.

I do like BJGE for what he is. But by no means am I comfortable with his non playmaking abilities as the guy receiving the majority of the carries. With the defensive fronts the pats see, I know we can get more production from that spot.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

In my opinion a lot of what is going on here is loyalty to BJGE, and those propping up Riddley are seen as looking at BJGE negatively. That is not the case (at least with me). BJGE is a Patriot type player and brings good things to the table. He should and will get plenty of playing time. However, to be the best a team can be, they have to be pragmatic and go with the player that gives them the best chance to succeed. On that point, I think you would have to have put on blinders to not see what Riddley has been doing over the last month or more, and not believe he will get the bigger share of the rushes in the playoffs (within the context of going with whover/whatever is working). This kid, albeit with only modest amounts of carries, is putting it to opposing defenses. Here is a John Parolin (ESPN Boston Stats guy) blurb on Riddley's impressive performance and what he brings to the table (at least so far):

-- It would be easy to overlook the contributions of Stevan Ridley this season in an offense featuring names like Brady, Gronkowski and Welker. After all, 53 running backs had more rushes than Ridley’s 87 carries, and Ridley only scored one touchdown on the season. However, evidence is mounting that the Patriots found a pretty solid player with the 73rd overall pick in last year’s draft. Ridley’s 5.1 yards per rush is 10th among the 56 running backs with at least 85 rushes. Ridley has been among the league’s most powerful runners, averaging 2.6 yards after contact per rush. That trails only Ben Tate, Isaac Redman and Donald Brown among running backs with at least 85 carries. However, Ridley was far more than just a niche power rusher, averaging a 20+ yard run once every 17.4 carries. That was the seventh-best average among backs with at least 85 carries, trailing Darren Sproles, DeAngelo Williams, Darren McFadden, C.J. Spiller, Matt Forte and Fred Jackson. That’s pretty explosive company, and Ridley’s combination of speed and power has served the Patriots well. When Ridley had at least 10 rushes, the Patriots were 4-0 (including their last three games).

 

[NEP4Life]

I think they should resign him to something very reasonable if possible with Faulk retiring, we will suddenly be very young at that position. From a fiduciary standpoint I would understand if BJGE tries to get all he can on the open market. That could also blow up in his face as he isn't asked to be anything he isn't in this offense and we frankly don't ask much from our RB's. We are a predominantly passing team and rely heavily on Brady. I think BJGE will be exposed if he goes elsewhere and is asked to do too much.

I do like BJGE for what he is. But by no means am I comfortable with his non playmaking abilities as the guy receiving the majority of the carries. With the defensive fronts the pats see, I know we can get more production from that spot.

BJGE is another guy who's a perfect fit in the Pats system, and whose value and effectiveness would drop substantially almost anywhere else.

He's not going to turn around a bad team. He's a complementary part on a team that's already good, so his list of destinations would be limited to about 10 teams, at most.

 

[ausbacker]

In my opinion a lot of what is going on here is loyalty to BJGE, and those propping up Riddley are seen as looking at BJGE negatively. That is not the case (at least with me). BJGE is a Patriot type player and brings good things to the table. He should and will get plenty of playing time. However, to be the best a team can be, they have to be pragmatic and go with the player that gives them the best chance to succeed. On that point, I think you would have to have put on blinders to not see what Riddley has been doing over the last month or more, and not believe he will get the bigger share of the rushes in the playoffs (within the context of going with whover/whatever is working). This kid, albeit with only modest amounts of carries, is putting it to opposing defenses. Here is a John Parolin (ESPN Boston Stats guy) blurb on Riddley's impressive performance and what he brings to the table (at least so far):

-- It would be easy to overlook the contributions of Stevan Ridley this season in an offense featuring names like Brady, Gronkowski and Welker. After all, 53 running backs had more rushes than Ridley’s 87 carries, and Ridley only scored one touchdown on the season. However, evidence is mounting that the Patriots found a pretty solid player with the 73rd overall pick in last year’s draft. Ridley’s 5.1 yards per rush is 10th among the 56 running backs with at least 85 rushes. Ridley has been among the league’s most powerful runners, averaging 2.6 yards after contact per rush. That trails only Ben Tate, Isaac Redman and Donald Brown among running backs with at least 85 carries. However, Ridley was far more than just a niche power rusher, averaging a 20+ yard run once every 17.4 carries. That was the seventh-best average among backs with at least 85 carries, trailing Darren Sproles, DeAngelo Williams, Darren McFadden, C.J. Spiller, Matt Forte and Fred Jackson. That’s pretty explosive company, and Ridley’s combination of speed and power has served the Patriots well. When Ridley had at least 10 rushes, the Patriots were 4-0 (including their last three games).

There are those of us who are HAPPY with the use of the RB committee you know given the many and varied dimensions Green-Ellis, Ridley and Woodhead bring to the offense.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

I do like BJGE for what he is. But by no means am I comfortable with his non playmaking abilities as the guy receiving the majority of the carries. With the defensive fronts the pats see, I know we can get more production from that spot.

Well said. Teams will play/cheat pass with the Patriots (they would be crazy not to). Increased production from that spot will make the Patriots hyper dangerous.
Getting increased production from that spot in the upcoming playoffs may be the difference between a SB appearance and a quicker trip back home. This is why, imho, Riddley should be given added handoffs if the situation allows. Let's see if his seemingly abundant abilities can deliver a vicious right cross to the opposition.