Rodney Harrison: Worst secondary in 10 years

[patsinthesnow]

Wrong thread fail.

 

[Fencer]

With Chung out and McCourty playing tentatively and one-armed, I don't see how anybody can have much objection to the opinion.

Which other Patriots secondaries didn't have two guys as good as Arrington and current-McCourty?

Which other Patriot secondaries didn't have more quality behind them?

 

[supafly]

I don't care how bad this secondary is, Duane Starks and Deltha O'Neal would not be an improvement.

One would think you'd be 100% right, but sadly it is not.

Check Duane Starks' numbers compared to McCourty's this year.

As much as Starks was ridiculed (and rightfully so on some level) he was having an all-pro year compared to McCourty in 2011.

Starks had 5 passes defended in only 6 games, averaging almost a pass defended per game. McCourty is averaging 50% of that.

And Deltha O'Neal in 2008 had what appeared to be a pro-bowl year when compared to 2011 McCourty--with 3 INT's, and 8 passes defended.

Amazing, isn't it?

 

[supafly]

I highly doubt that BB doesn't TRUST BJGE on the short yardage situations....I think it is more likely that he is being bothered alot by the turf toe injury and BB is going light on him as result. Problem is....Ridley obviously not ready....and so Kevin Faulk (or occasionally woodhead) is the go to guy for short usher runs. Faulk has really lost a step this year after injury.....just extremely slow now. Need to get Ridley more involved somehow....

Woodhead is constantly get blown up trying to pickup the blitzer.

It seems to be an every game occurrence anymore.

Faulk at least offers a solid option in that regard. Yes, I agree that Ridley needs to be able to contribute more, but that probably isn't going to happen this yr.

 

[robbomango]

in regards to 1 n done worries

we had 2 rookie TE's and a 2nd year RB woodhead as 3 big parts of our offensive production last year. Going against a thirsty embarrassed sewage rats team in the playoff with a new defensive game plan. This most likely hurt the O's effectiveness.

woody 14 carries 46yds 0tds3.3avrg 1fumble
gronkowski 4rec 65yds 0tds
hernandez(injured) 1rec 4yds 0tds

If the offense stay's healthy I'm not worried about a repeat of last year or the year before which was is an even worse predicament.

I'm expecting ugly ground out games more like yesterday even with a healthy secondary.

 

[supafly]

in regards to 1 n done worries

we had 2 rookie TE's and a 2nd year RB woodhead as 3 big parts of our offensive production last year. Going against a thirsty embarrassed sewage rats team in the playoff with a new defensive game plan. This most likely hurt the O's effectiveness.

woody 14 carries 46yds 0tds3.3avrg 1fumble
gronkowski 4rec 65yds 0tds
hernandez(injured) 1rec 4yds 0tds

If the offense stay's healthy I'm not worried about a repeat of last year or the year before which was is an even worse predicament.

I'm expecting ugly ground out games more like yesterday even with a healthy secondary.

Great points, but what about teams who play great defense such as the PIT, BAL and HOU's on the world?

Not only that, at least 2 out of those 3 teams have perfectly capable offenses who can also put up 25 points or so on any given day.

FWIW--I don't think we go one and done for the 3rd straight yr either, but the variables that will bring this team to compete in the AFCCG (let alone win it) have to be lucky breaks in the seeding and placement of what particular teams we play come January.

It all comes down to Brady, Welker and Gronkowski anyway. If they all play lights out for a couple of games, we certainly have a shot. If not, even the smallest mistake can send this team home.

 

[mgteich]

We need to take care of business and win out. I expect BALT and HOU to win out. We would then likely play HOU and then BALT or PITT in the title game.

Great points, but what about teams who play great defense such as the PIT, BAL and HOU's on the world?

Not only that, at least 2 out of those 3 teams have perfectly capable offenses who can also put up 25 points or so on any given day.

FWIW--I don't think we go one and done for the 3rd straight yr either, but the variables that will bring this team to compete in the AFCCG (let alone win it) have to be lucky breaks in the seeding and placement of what particular teams we play come January.

It all comes down to Brady, Welker and Gronkowski anyway. If they all play lights out for a couple of games, we certainly have a shot. If not, even the smallest mistake can send this team home.

 

[robbomango]

Great points, but what about teams who play great defense such as the PIT, BAL and HOU's on the world?

Not only that, at least 2 out of those 3 teams have perfectly capable offenses who can also put up 25 points or so on any given day.

FWIW--I don't think we go one and done for the 3rd straight yr either, but the variables that will bring this team to compete in the AFCCG (let alone win it) have to be lucky breaks in the seeding and placement of what particular teams we play come January.

It all comes down to Brady, Welker and Gronkowski anyway. If they all play lights out for a couple of games, we certainly have a shot. If not, even the smallest mistake can send this team home.

BAL probably an ugly battle and I'll be ripping my hair out until the clock stops as always.

Pit round 2 I'm not so worried about, Bens antics last week were extremely reckless and unwarranted as usual. Snapping his ankle(high ankle sprain) and continuing to play against a team that couldn't run or complete a pass was a bit melodramatic to say the least. If he doesn't have the patience to heel, I don't see him being as effective come playoff time.

then again we make Jag QB's look like Montana but I still like our chances with TB in that match up

Nothing about this game is a fans cure for anxiety that's for sure. more like the cause of it. I'm nervous about every game regardless, with that said "Tebow nail biter" coming up.

 

[supafly]

We need to take care of business and win out. I expect BALT and HOU to win out. We would then likely play HOU and then BALT or PITT in the title game.

Yes, that's what I've been hoping for also.

A home game vs the #3, then let one of PIT/BAL take the other out, preferably the lower seeded of the two, so it'd be home in the AFCCG.

What I was referring to though, was about what happens specifically vs those teams...we all know we can beat the lesser teams. My post was in response to robbomango's post.

Thank you though.

 

[supafly]

BAL probably an ugly battle and I'll be ripping my hair out until the clock stops as always.

Pit round 2 I'm not so worried about, Bens antics last week were extremely reckless and unwarranted as usual. Snapping his ankle(high ankle sprain) and continuing to play against a team that couldn't run or complete a pass was a bit melodramatic to say the least. If he doesn't have the patience to heel, I don't see him being as effective come playoff time.

then again we make Jag QB's look like Montana but I still like our chances with TB in that match up

Nothing about this game is a fans cure for anxiety that's for sure. more like the cause of it. I'm nervous about every game regardless, with that said "Tebow nail biter" coming up.

I just am hoping for the bye, then seeing if we can get past what will likely be Houston. Their defense, running game etc can pose problems too.

I would imagine that they'd move past them, but I'm not taking anything for granted.

 

[ATippett56]

I just am hoping for the bye, then seeing if we can get past what will likely be Houston. Their defense, running game etc can pose problems too.

I would imagine that they'd move past them, but I'm not taking anything for granted.

That will also depend if Andre Johnson, wide receiver for the Houston Texans, is completely healthy for the AFC Playoffs. No one in the New England Patriots defensive secondary can cover Andre Johnson when he is 100%.

 

[Deus Irae]

Chart on this topic, from WEEI.com:



Here's the link for the whole piece:

It Is What It Is » By the brutal numbers: Breaking down the Patriots secondary



Mods: I don't know if you want to keep the chart up or remove it. Obviously, that's your call....

 

[supafly]

Chart on this topic, from WEEI.com:



Here's the link for the whole piece:

It Is What It Is » By the brutal numbers: Breaking down the Patriots secondary



Mods: I don't know if you want to keep the chart up or remove it. Obviously, that's your call....

Wow...

Stunning numbers indeed.

I knew how incredible the 2003 defense was (obviously), but forgot just how effective the 2006 defense was too. Absolutely amazing.

Besides the 2007 season's SB loss, I still think that the 2006 season's AFCCG loss was a very, very close second in terms of disappointment. That 2006 team was a lot better than I originally thought it was.

EDIT: Just taking another look at some of those numbers make me long for the days of a punishing defense again. Seeing the low point totals, the high number of sacks, and many years of passing yardage that was right around 200 per game, if not lower for some yrs has me wondering just what could have been..

I hate to start looking towards next yr already (not saying that I'm writing 2011 off at all) but one would have to think that Belichick surely can't be dumb enough not to make some key moves on that side of the ball in both the draft and free agency/cuts/trades. I can't imagine that he is anywhere close to being happy with this absolute disgrace.

 

[ATippett56]

I hate to start looking towards next yr already (not saying that I'm writing 2011 off at all) but one would have to think that Belichick surely can't be dumb enough not to make some key moves on that side of the ball in both the draft and free agency/cuts/trades. I can't imagine that he is anywhere close to being happy with this absolute disgrace.

The absolute truth!

 

[andrewgarrr]

I hate to start looking towards next yr already (not saying that I'm writing 2011 off at all) but one would have to think that Belichick surely can't be dumb enough not to make some key moves on that side of the ball in both the draft and free agency/cuts/trades. I can't imagine that he is anywhere close to being happy with this absolute disgrace.

I think...

BB is very specific about players in his 34 scheme.

More of the players coming out of college are suited for the 43 based on physical attributes and experience.

The 43 switch might become permanent and not just a result of the lockout.

 

[supafly]

I think...

BB is very specific about players in his 34 scheme.

More of the players coming out of college are suited for the 43 based on physical attributes and experience.

The 43 switch might become permanent and not just a result of the lockout.

Surely something to think about, good point.

Even if they return to the 3-4, I would have to think that Belichick may realize that he may have to take a chance this year; unless maybe he would consider making a bigger-type move via trade or free agency.

Regardless, I don't think that all hope is lost, or anything even close to it, as far as the future of this defense. I do think that they have to make some kind of big move, whether that's moving up in the draft, or even staying put and taking a chance on one of the bigger name draft picks in April. I still think that there will be some kind of mid-to-higher level trade or free agency acquisition (more likely probably).

Even stubborn old Bill has got to realize that we need some serious help on that side of the ball.

The good news is that next yr's team will be very different in many aspects, just as it always is. The bad news is that we are stuck with this yr's team halfway thru December, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

 

[andrewgarrr]

Surely something to think about, good point.

Even if they return to the 3-4, I would have to think that Belichick may realize that he may have to take a chance this year; unless maybe he would consider making a bigger-type move via trade or free agency.

Regardless, I don't think that all hope is lost, or anything even close to it, as far as the future of this defense. I do think that they have to make some kind of big move, whether that's moving up in the draft, or even staying put and taking a chance on one of the bigger name draft picks in April. I still think that there will be some kind of mid-to-higher level trade or free agency acquisition (more likely probably).

Even stubborn old Bill has got to realize that we need some serious help on that side of the ball.

The good news is that next yr's team will be very different in many aspects, just as it always is. The bad news is that we are stuck with this yr's team halfway thru December, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Another thing that helped the defense in the "dynasty years" was continuity. Injuries to Mayo, Chung, Spikes, and McCourty really threw off the continuity this year, along with some puzzling cuts(?). Since the beginning of the 2009 season to now, only Wilfork and Mayo remain (as starters, someone should check me on this). That's very little continuity.

In September and October I was thinking the coaching staff could get the defense in shape by this time. I can't see the defense improving enough in the last three weeks to stop GB and NO offenses. They've played well in patches which is still encouraging.

But the good thing is the NWE offense is as dominating as any other in the league. If the Patriot offense doesn't make any mistakes and gets enough possessions, the Patriots have a chance to beat anybody.

 

[Sparetire]

Why ppl need to look at the stats to say somthing about this D? its obvious that our D sucks, and if we dont win a playoff game its because of the D. only blind pats fans think our D is worth somthing in the post-season. we are becoming the colts, always leaning on the QB to save us.

So yes, rodney is right - he is not a jets fan or anything els, he is just right. i wont be surprised if tebow will throw 400 yards on us.

 

[mrscruff]

You're right on with the assesment of players going into their 2nd year here they regress if it happened a few times here and there you may say well he didn't get the system, but it is happening much to often so its a trend. Is it the coaching thats my hunch when you have one of the lowest paid coaching staffs in the league if you take BB's salary out of the picture. Hey I love the Pats but they're caught up in this value baloney so much so it's taken over how they may look at talented athletes. Perfect example Meyer the coach in Florida told BB he thought that Dunlap was a better prospect than Cunningham so who do we pick Cunningham who has been the more productive player Dunlap. these are things I can't figure out the guy is a great coach and has coached some of the greatest defenses but i just can't figure it out.

I liked Dunlap as well, but I can't see how this particular selection can be attributed to "value" when the Pats had their choice of player and they were taken in consecutive picks. They simply had a preference for Cunningham.

 

[randomk1]

Looks like Wilfork is pissed at Harrison heh