Can we get by with D-linemen we have?

[Ochmed Jones]

What's so damn moronic about taking Ras??? He got injured in a freak accident and you already call him a freaking bust???

The team was transitioning to a bigger and more physical CB's in 2010. I have no problems taking Ras.
A) they tried to trade out of that pick. They couldn't.
B) Ras was their BPA. He would have been a mid 20's 1st rounder if he wasn't injured during his senior year.
C) The team does not draft undersized, underweight LB's early. It's a waste of a pick (1st, 2nd) to select a 1 down pass rusher.

This team only needs 1 not 2 DE/OLB. Niko and JC can handle the other OLB spot.

And yes, there is no other GM I'll take over BB. Even Scott Pioli, the only GM who can draft for a 2 gap defense.

Who said I was calling out Dowling in my earlier email? I think this may be a case of a comprehension malfunction.

However I take huge issue with point (C). Did you not see Big Ben making first downs against us on 3rd and 15, 3rd and 12, and a bunch of 3rd and 10's? Did he even remotely look like our pass rush scared or even bothered him?

If drafting a one down player will help get our putrid defense off the field on third down, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Bottom Line: We have the worst defense in the NFL. Our pass rushers are a joke. Our corners have to cover longer than any corners in football.

I like McCourty at one CB spot. I like Chung at the SS spot. I like Arrington at the star position. I wish we had another decent CB and anything resembling a FS, however I would not spend a first rounder on those positions. Instead I would spend our picks on a pass rusher, even a one down pass rusher and a 5 technique DE.

 

[Sciz]

Wanting to draft for need is your first problem. That's a great way to make sure your roster is never any good.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Who said I was calling out Dowling in my earlier email? I think this may be a case of a comprehension malfunction.

Name me any GM that will stand up to BB and put his foot down when it comes to BB's moronic habit of taking DBs early in the draft and ignoring the OLB/DE position

You said it. Unless you also think Devin McCourty was a idiotic choice.

However I take huge issue with point (C). Did you not see Big Ben making first downs against us on 3rd and 15, 3rd and 12, and a bunch of 3rd and 10's? Did he even remotely look like our pass rush scared or even bothered him?

Those issues were b/c of the fact that we played soft zones and the ball came out within 2 seconds. Can't get to a mobile QB within 2 seconds.
The gameplan was to take out Wallace and other WR's from going deep. We did well in that aspect. They just dinked and dunked the crap out of our defense.

If drafting a one down player will help get our putrid defense off the field on third down, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Glad you aren't the GM.
Question, How are Dwight Freeny and Robert Mathis helping getting their defense off the field this year? Their defense is awesome isn't it?

Bottom Line: We have the worst defense in the NFL. Our pass rushers are a joke. Our corners have to cover longer than any corners in football.

Andre Carter is a joke? I didn't know that. If you are talking about Shaun Ellis? I tend to agree but remember, he is a 300lb 5 tech playing the run in a 43 under. Basically that type of defense has only 1 pass rusher (Carter) and a semi pass rusher in Ninko.

I like McCourty at one CB spot. I like Chung at the SS spot. I like Arrington at the star position. I wish we had another decent CB and anything resembling a FS, however I would not spend a first rounder on those positions. Instead I would spend our picks on a pass rusher, even a one down pass rusher and a 5 technique DE.

Nither would I unless Robert Lester comes out. Then for me, it's FS, OLB, WR (only If that Rutgers WR is there) and C in the 1st-2nd round. (Don't think we will be using the 2nd 1st round pick).

I doubt we will be taking anyfor a 5 tech DE early. Brace showed us last year that he was a capable LDE in a 34. And I don't see any capable RDE in a 34 this year that's worthy of a 34RDE selection unless Worthy of MSU drops so low which I doubt. There were 3 of them last year and BB didn't take any. Last year's draft was strong for the 34 DE class. This year it isn't.

The bigger OLB's in this draft should be available starting in the middle of the 1st rd to early to mid 2nd round (IE Curry, Cam Johnson).
Things can change like a combine workout where their stocks go up. (Ie Aldon Smith-A pass rusher BB liked)

As for the early pick selection of a 1 down pass rusher. I'll pass. I rather go with players ie Mark Anderson as 1 down players than some rookie who for all we know, might be a bust.

 

[Daigle]

Oh so BB liked Aldon Smith ey? He was my favourite player of that draft. Too bad we didnt get him.

 

[Sciz]

Oh so BB liked Aldon Smith ey? He was my favourite player of that draft. Too bad we didnt get him.

Man, me too. I miss the good old days of February, back when I could grab Aldon Smith at pick 17 and JJ Watt at 28 in mock drafts...

 

[Daigle]

Man, me too. I miss the good old days of February, back when I could grab Aldon Smith at pick 17 and JJ Watt at 28 in mock drafts...

Beautiful times.

 

[captain stone]

Like who?
Name me a GM who is currently available right now that is better than BB?

If I were Kraft, I would make a short list - with outside help, not Bill's - of the top personnel assistants in the Packers, Ravens & Squealers organizations (maybe even, dare I say it, in the Jints & Jets organizations too).
I would then schedule interviews with all of them during this off-season, and make a decision to hire one of them as Chief Grocery Shopper before the scouting combine begins.

The bottom line is: Bill must have his GM duties taken from him, voluntarily or otherwise.

 

[Wilfork#75]

If I were Kraft, I would make a short list - with outside help, not Bill's - of the top personnel assistants in the Packers, Ravens & Squealers organizations (maybe even, dare I say it, in the Jints & Jets organizations too).
I would then schedule interviews with all of them during this off-season, and make a decision to hire one of them as Chief Grocery Shopper before the scouting combine begins.

The bottom line is: Bill must have his GM duties taken from him, voluntarily or otherwise.

While I agree that this team needs someone to take some of the responsibility away from BB when it comes to player evaluations and drafting, whether it be a GM or another role, I don't think this is the way to go about it. BB is the head coach of this team and he makes the decisions. If they are going to bring anyone in to work along side him it needs to be someone BB trusts and respects. Otherwise things could get ugly, so BB would need to be apart of that process. What I think we do need, whether its a GM or not, is someone that BB listens to and respects, that can challenge BB when they disagree with him. Someone to make him consider alternatives and re-evaluate his decisions. I worry that there isn't anyone in the organization right now that can do that. Who has the balls to challenge BB when they disagree with him.

 

[Defsoul]

The bottom line is: Bill must have his GM duties taken from him, voluntarily or otherwise.

Do that and he's walking out of the door. You either get Belichick the headcoach and the general manager or neither ot that.

 

[rdf63]

It's time to take and outside of the box look at the Patriots. Put yourself in the position of a person (AA) Bill Belicheck wants feedback from and the season just ended.
BB: Can we get by with D-Lineman we have next year?
AA: No, all you have right now at a pro bowl caliber is Vince Wolfork?
BB: We have Brace and Love?
AA: Brace is injured again and in two years has shown ability but isnt healthy. Love is a project player and best used to rest players.
BB: I dont want to use a 1st round pick for a DT?
AA: You NEED a 1st round and potential pro bowl caliber DL player in the 2012 draft?
BB: I dont need a DE/OLB?
AA: You need a 1st round and pro bowl caliber DE/OLB in the 2012 draft? All you have is Mayo and the defense needs an impact DE/OLB...Let me remind BB that nobody on the defense had a pro bowl caliber season!!!!
BB: Why?
AA: Wolfork, Chung, McCourty and Mayo are all you have that are proven starters. Spikes has shown signs of being a good ILB, Dowling has the ability but you have to rebuild that defense now and having 2 1st and 2 2nd round picks...NOW is the time to do it. Listen to me BB you have some talented young defensive players that can contribute BUT you need to get three people that can start and impact right away. Your DL and entire Front seven is one of the biggest reasons you have the WORST defense in the league.
BB: I refuse to do that and its best to trade for future picks!
AA: WRONG...In one draft you can get a starting DL, DE/OLB and safety. The defense could now become one of the best YOUNG defenses in the league. Use your first three picks for Defensive starters and then decide what to do with the other 2nd and 3rd round picks.

 

[Sciz]

It's time to take and outside of the box look at the Patriots. Put yourself in the position of a person (AA) Bill Belicheck wants feedback from and the season just ended.
BB: Can we get by with D-Lineman we have next year?
AA: No, all you have right now at a pro bowl caliber is Vince Wolfork?
BB: We have Brace and Love?
AA: Brace is injured again and in two years has shown ability but isnt healthy. Love is a project player and best used to rest players.
BB: I dont want to use a 1st round pick for a DT?
AA: You NEED a 1st round and potential pro bowl caliber DL player in the 2012 draft?
BB: I dont need a DE/OLB?
AA: You need a 1st round and pro bowl caliber DE/OLB in the 2012 draft? All you have is Mayo and the defense needs an impact DE/OLB...Let me remind BB that nobody on the defense had a pro bowl caliber season!!!!
BB: Why?
AA: Wolfork, Chung, McCourty and Mayo are all you have that are proven starters. Spikes has shown signs of being a good ILB, Dowling has the ability but you have to rebuild that defense now and having 2 1st and 2 2nd round picks...NOW is the time to do it. Listen to me BB you have some talented young defensive players that can contribute BUT you need to get three people that can start and impact right away. Your DL and entire Front seven is one of the biggest reasons you have the WORST defense in the league.
BB: I refuse to do that and its best to trade for future picks!
AA: WRONG...In one draft you can get a starting DL, DE/OLB and safety. The defense could now become one of the best YOUNG defenses in the league. Use your first three picks for Defensive starters and then decide what to do with the other 2nd and 3rd round picks.

AA apparently doesn't know how to run a football team. Don't draft for positions. Draft for value. There's never any "need" to take a player in the first round. And as for the mocking of BB for trading back, take your pick of one first round pick or a second round pick every year for as long as you want and then a first round pick and the end. Because that's what he's doing.

Also, there are no starting safeties in this draft. And no DE or OLB is going to start right away either, most likely. It's just too hard.

 

[Daigle]

From a D-line perspective, I actually think its a better plan to draft for 3-4. My thought is that its easier to get breadcarriers who will stuff the run for less money than it takes to get a good 4-3 with atleast one beastly penetrator and one runstopper. You will always have the pash rusher cost but in 3-4 it seems you can get along with bigger, cheaper bodies.

The need to draft for highround inside passrushers is also taken away and you have picks for other stuff. Although the passrusher is still needed and will come from LB.

Having to decent rushers, which are easier to find, also is good for the gameplan. The rush can come from different sides. Then you also dont have to draft for that elite-talent.

 

[captain stone]

While I agree that this team needs someone to take some of the responsibility away from BB when it comes to player evaluations and drafting, whether it be a GM or another role, I don't think this is the way to go about it. BB is the head coach of this team and he makes the decisions. If they are going to bring anyone in to work along side him it needs to be someone BB trusts and respects. Otherwise things could get ugly, so BB would need to be apart of that process. What I think we do need, whether its a GM or not, is someone that BB listens to and respects, that can challenge BB when they disagree with him. Someone to make him consider alternatives and re-evaluate his decisions. I worry that there isn't anyone in the organization right now that can do that. Who has the balls to challenge BB when they disagree with him.

Fair points.

 

[captain stone]

Do that and he's walking out of the door. You either get Belichick the headcoach and the general manager or neither ot that.

Probably true; but after the next 2 losses to the Jets & Eagles, and the rest of the season goes down the toilet, then perhaps a change should be made if Bill refuses to relinquish grocery-shopping authority. The 2 best HCs in the last half-century, Lombardi & Walsh, stayed only a decade w/ GB & SF. Perhaps Bill's stay here has run its course too.

 

[Frick]

Mike Reiss brought up Jimmy Johnson's name as somebody who could work with BB on the draft. A man he respects and would listen to.

Our needs are many, but we do have the picks & the prospects are expected to fall within our reach. These are good looking kids IMHO.

OLB- Upshaw or Curry (1st rd) - trade 2nd 1st rd to 2013
DE- 2nd rd Devon Still FS- Lester, McDonald, Iloka
OLB- I like Chase Thomas Stanford (race car with no sterring wheel) 2nd rd.
If you want a CB or WR, we should get a 2nd or maybe two 3rds for Hoyer. For the right price BB may be willing to part with Mallet, LawFirm, who knows, but as all of you have pointed out, we have to hit on the players selected. You can insert different players from those I mentioned, I only care about the team as a whole. According to most mocks, the prospects are right we want them position wise, now we have to pull the trigger. I don't think we can trade down this year, that won't work this year IMHO.

 

[captain stone]

I think that Hoyer is a UDFA after this season unless he re-signs & is then traded, if that's even possible. Mallett won't fetch anything right now unless he gets some snaps before season's end. Based on those situations, plus the sad fact that Bill threw away his 5th- & 6th-rounders on Fat Albert & OchoStinko,
I believe that Bill will trade down early & often next year.

 

[Wilfork#75]

I think that Hoyer is a UDFA after this season unless he re-signs & is then traded, if that's even possible. Mallett won't fetch anything right now unless he gets some snaps before season's end. Based on those situations, plus the sad fact that Bill threw away his 5th- & 6th-rounders on Fat Albert & OchoStinko,
I believe that Bill will trade down early & often next year.

I believe Hoyer is a RFA, so a sign and trade would make the most sense to me.