Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision making

[DaBruinz]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

I will also go as far as to say the pilfering of coaches over the last 5-6 years is taking its toll. Lets not forget that Mangini and McDaniels were the heir apparents at DC and OC for this team. They are the contemporaries of the current OC and DC (O'Brien and Patricia), relatively same age and experience and yet they were the ones that were chosen to be the OC and DC with Mangini the heir apparent to BB as HC. BB can only be as good as the people he has around him who are implementing his vision/scheme. Pats now have 2nd tier, (2nd choice remember Mangini and McDaniels were chosen ahead of these guys) coaches running the O and D.

Where do you get that Matt Patricia is the acting DC? Patricia is the Safeties Coach. If anyone is acting as the DC, It's Pepper Johnson. They guy wearing the headset.

As for age/experience, umm, McDaniels and Mangini were both ahead of Patricia and O'Brien. In fact, Patricia was a defensive assistant while Mangini was the DC.. So Mangini clearly has a few years on Patricia..

 

[primetime]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

Agreed.

Posters on here need to remember that BB won a SB with a guy named Earthwind Moreland. Wait who?? Exactly. As bad as the defense looks, there's still alot of football left for BB to get the secondarys sh*t together.
However, my koolaid has a funny taste lately.

That team had the best front seven in football, and the starting defensive backfield was Asante Samuel, Randall Gay, Rodney Harrison, and Eugene Wilson... which is far and away better than the crap they're trotting out there this year, even if Troy Brown was the 4th defensive back on the field (and Troy Brown may have been a better corner than Phillip Adams)

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

To those citing Belichick's previous accomplishments as a defensive mastermind, you are just wasting your words. The NFL has changed, the way offenses approach the game has changed, and Bill, so far, has shown a remarkable inability to handle such changes. Couple that with highly questionable recent personnel decisions, and he should be way more criticized than he has been. Fact is the Patriots roster as a whole lacks talent and while it's a testament to Belichick's coaching acumen that he can lead this team to victory with little in the way of man-power, isn't building a competitive roster one of the HC's main roles? I think it's fair to say Bill has pretty much failed in that department in recent years, especially on the defensive side of the ball. Even on offense I don't think we have above average talent, compared to some of the other high-scoring teams.

He shouldn't get all of the blame, but this team has been bailed out by Tom Brady week in and week out since the 2009 season. Hell, throw 2005 and 2006 in that mix too. It's just amazing to me that in a region known for it's rabid fans and media, nobody even thinks about questioning Belichick. Even those statements by Reiss are pretty tame, if you think about it. I'm not advocating a coaching change or anything, but it's time Belichick is held accountable for his many shortcomings in recent seasons.

Actually, No. Building the roster is not one of the HC's main roles.. That has typically been the role of the front office. In fact, not being able to "buy the groceries" was one of the reasons that Parcells left the Giants and the Pats..

What I love is people like you ignoring the success that BB has had in recent years DESPITE the lack of talent coming out. The 2007 season was noted as being one of the worst drafts in history in regards to talent.

BB IS held accountable for his mistakes. It is Bob Kraft who holds him accountable.

This idea that "nobody thinks about questioning Belichick" is a bold faced LIE on your part. Plenty of people on this board have questioned moves he's made. They've been doing so since 2003 when Milloy was cut. But there is a difference between questioning a move and acting like your 20/20 hindsight somehow makes you smarter than Belichick.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

I am still scratching my head over the Bodden cut, but does anyone think that the outcome of the game would have been any different with Bodden playing?

Belichick is far from perfect in the personnel area, but the guy has continued to make this team a legitimate Super Bowl competitor every year he was here other than two. He has made his blunders and some big ones. But name the GM or coach who hasn't.

One week after cutting Lawyer Milloy, Belichick was being chastised for losing his team and making a monumental blunder. It took one week for the team to right the ship. I don't expect this team to turn into the 2003 version of this team, but people seem to be overreacting to one loss. If this team spirals out of control, then Belichick has some real explaining to do to Bob Kraft. But people are talking like the season is over after one loss where the Pats were just bad at all phases of the game.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

That team had the best front seven in football, and the starting defensive backfield was Asante Samuel, Randall Gay, Rodney Harrison, and Eugene Wilson... which is far and away better than the crap they're trotting out there this year, even if Troy Brown was the 4th defensive back on the field (and Troy Brown may have been a better corner than Phillip Adams)

Yes, because Philip Adams played so poorly yesterday..

I have news for you, it was Molden out there most of the game. Adams only played in the 2nd hald and he played better than Molden or Ihedigbo..

 

[hodgey]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

No, BB did not with a SB with a guy named Earthwind Moreland. Moreland was CUT prior to the SB.

Geez DaBruinz you come on and knit pick everybody's post to find a misspelled word or a meaningless misplaced fact? Please allow a few serious questions so I know where you stand. Do you see a Patriot defense that can win in the playoffs? Do we not have ownership that will step up to plate financially to win? Have the patriots not had ample draft choices since 2008? Who is responsible for the horrible D for at least the last 2 years?
lastly even you have to admit the coach you defend at all cost doesnt have any faith in his own defensive cast. Lets remember 4th and 2, and yesterdays onside with 3 time outs left. Boy what does that tell us?

 

[Jangles]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

I am still scratching my head over the Bodden cut, but does anyone think that the outcome of the game would have been any different with Bodden playing?

Belichick is far from perfect in the personnel area, but the guy has continued to make this team a legitimate Super Bowl competitor every year he was here other than two. He has made his blunders and some big ones. But name the GM or coach who hasn't.

One week after cutting Lawyer Milloy, Belichick was being chastised for losing his team and making a monumental blunder. It took one week for the team to right the ship. I don't expect this team to turn into the 2003 version of this team, but people seem to be overreacting to one loss.

Well for those of us who are young or haven't always religiously followed football you have to see it from our perspective. So many people here, and in the media preach, "Bill Belichick the genius. Give this guy 2 weeks and he'll beat anybody in the universe."

That's cool, and yeah we've seen a lot of that. But when you're hailed as one of, if not the greatest defensive mind in the history of football, people have high expectations. Turning average players into a serviceable unit isn't good enough. If he's so brilliant defensively, why are they even in this mess to start? Why hasn't he found some legitimate players through the draft, or a few free agents that can come and be a force. Obviously it isn't as easy as just going to the "good defense" store and grabbing a guy off the shelf. But when you're the best, people expect you to not only coach like it, but amass talent, and build a team that reflects your skill.

 

[condon84]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

People need to stop comparing the Bodden cut with the Milloy cut. That 03 team was stacked with defensive talent. This team is nowhere near in talent to that team.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

Don't get me wrong but isn't he supposed to be a defensive guru ? I'm not even sure what to say anymore. Next week are we going to see the release of chung or spikes ??? WTF is going on..

He has the reputation of being a defensive guru, but do you think it's easier to so if you have Lawrence Taylor on your team?

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

This team reminds me of the 2002 team, in all honesty. One that had a glaring hole in it. In 2002, the Pats had signed Steve Martin to play NT for the Pats.. He was cut after week 8 (?) because he did it so poorly. The Pats didn't have a back-up for him, but BB felt that addition by subtraction was better than having Martin on the field and in the locker-room.

The glaring hole is clearly the secondary this year. With McCourty having a 2nd year slump and Bodden fizzling out the way that Martin did, it's no surprise that there is a problem there. BB tried to address it with Dowling. But a freak injury has shelved him.

Cutting Sanders is looking to be pretty bad. Probably the worst of the 3 cuts.. Sanders, despite his lack of talent, was clearly a solid player at the safety position. The only semi-plausible reason I can think of for cutting Sanders was that Chung was relying too much on Sanders for the on-field adjustments and that BB wanted Chung to take that over from Sanderz. It's not a great reason. But it's plausible..

 

[Garbanza]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

Agreed.

Posters on here need to remember that BB won a SB with a guy named Earthwind Moreland. Wait who?? Exactly. As bad as the defense looks, there's still alot of football left for BB to get the secondarys sh*t together.
However, my koolaid has a funny taste lately.

This argument always cracks me up. Sure they had Eartland Moreland - but they also had a d-line that could pressure, lb's that could cover space, safeties that understood their assignments and excuted them and other corners that would pretty good. The 2011 Pats have Wilfork, Love....Arrignton is okay....and a bunch of sh*t.

 

[Jangles]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

BB tried to address it with Dowling. But a freak injury has shelved him.

Freak injury implies that it wasn't expected. I'd say a routine injury shelved him.

 

[condon84]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

This team reminds me of the 2002 team, in all honesty. One that had a glaring hole in it. In 2002, the Pats had signed Steve Martin to play NT for the Pats.. He was cut after week 8 (?) because he did it so poorly. The Pats didn't have a back-up for him, but BB felt that addition by subtraction was better than having Martin on the field and in the locker-room.

The glaring hole is clearly the secondary this year. With McCourty having a 2nd year slump and Bodden fizzling out the way that Martin did, it's no surprise that there is a problem there. BB tried to address it with Dowling. But a freak injury has shelved him.

Cutting Sanders is looking to be pretty bad. Probably the worst of the 3 cuts.. Sanders, despite his lack of talent, was clearly a solid player at the safety position. The only semi-plausible reason I can think of for cutting Sanders was that Chung was relying too much on Sanders for the on-field adjustments and that BB wanted Chung to take that over from Sanderz. It's not a great reason. But it's plausible..

How is Dowling's injury a freak injury when the red flag on him coming out was injury concern.

 

[RodThePat]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

Actually, No. Building the roster is not one of the HC's main roles.. That has typically been the role of the front office. In fact, not being able to "buy the groceries" was one of the reasons that Parcells left the Giants and the Pats..

What I love is people like you ignoring the success that BB has had in recent years DESPITE the lack of talent coming out. The 2007 season was noted as being one of the worst drafts in history in regards to talent.

BB IS held accountable for his mistakes. It is Bob Kraft who holds him accountable.

This idea that "nobody thinks about questioning Belichick" is a bold faced LIE on your part. Plenty of people on this board have questioned moves he's made. They've been doing so since 2003 when Milloy was cut. But there is a difference between questioning a move and acting like your 20/20 hindsight somehow makes you smarter than Belichick.

It's not a lie in any way shape or form. Of course he has been criticized at some point (though it's mostly by fans, who, due to their passionate nature, will criticize anyone for anything), but I still think his recent failures have been more overlooked than they should have been. Are you going to tell me Belichick is criticized by fans and media as much as Kraft, or even Brady? Really? I'm talking about post-2004 here, when he achieved god-like status, with good reason, among both the fanbase and the media.

And I'm sorry, building a roster, in fact, isn't one of the HC's main roles. It's one of the GM's main roles, and you can't tell me with a straight face Bill Belichick isn't this team's 'de facto' GM.

Point is, he deserves way more criticism than he has been getting, and the 'Tom Brady factor' shouldn't be discounted when talking about the success this team has enjoyed the past few seasons.

I don't see many people here thinking they are smarter than Belichick, at least I'm not. I admit I have no idea about the intricacies of running a football team, personnel acquisitions, the drafting process or anything. Doesn't mean I have to be knowledgeable about that stuff, or that I should be making well thought-out posts about how I disagree with a certain move to be able to say he deserves criticism.

Of course hindsight here is 20/20, pretty much every kind of fan criticism is 20/20, especially in Belichick's case where he has enough credit to make you think twice about bashing a certain move, seeing as he rarely missed in the past. I just think he should be more questioned for the team's recent shortcomings, especially considering that most of our success lately has been due to Tom Brady's play. That's all. I have no agenda against Belichick, I idolize the man and will be forever grateful for what he has done for this franchise.

 

[Garbanza]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

This team reminds me of the 2002 team, in all honesty. One that had a glaring hole in it. In 2002, the Pats had signed Steve Martin to play NT for the Pats.. He was cut after week 8 (?) because he did it so poorly. The Pats didn't have a back-up for him, but BB felt that addition by subtraction was better than having Martin on the field and in the locker-room.

The glaring hole is clearly the secondary this year. With McCourty having a 2nd year slump and Bodden fizzling out the way that Martin did, it's no surprise that there is a problem there. BB tried to address it with Dowling. But a freak injury has shelved him.

Cutting Sanders is looking to be pretty bad. Probably the worst of the 3 cuts.. Sanders, despite his lack of talent, was clearly a solid player at the safety position. The only semi-plausible reason I can think of for cutting Sanders was that Chung was relying too much on Sanders for the on-field adjustments and that BB wanted Chung to take that over from Sanderz. It's not a great reason. But it's plausible..

Freak injury to Ras-I? They guy was riddled with injury problems throughout his college career. Stupid pick.

The secondary is bad, but the problem is more on the safeties and the linebackers, if you ask me. Safeties are horrid, Chung is sooooo over-rated, Mayo is less than a 100% and the rest of them suck. Spikes - sucks. One good play and everyone get's excited. He's terrible. Ninkovitz - c'mon...JAG at best. Diggs? A special Teams guy. I have a collection of manure on defense. It's so frustrating. The Pats have one of the greatest QB's of all time and they are wasting away the years...

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

People need to stop comparing the Bodden cut with the Milloy cut. That 03 team was stacked with defensive talent. This team is nowhere near in talent to that team.

I said this team wouldn't be like them, but they could rebound similarly just the same. This team in 5-2. The Milloy cut is a good example to point at though because people thought that the team was done and the team was a mess.

Also, the 2003 team wasn't stacked as you suggest. The offense that year was average at best. It had a dominant defense, but the offense struggled to stay on the field and and score TDs. I think the Pats had the worst 3rd down conversion rate on offense of the Belichick era. The Pats won a lot of close, very low scoring games that season.

This season it is the opposite. The offense is stack and the defense is weak.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

Forget the personnel. It's the damn coaching. ALL OF THEM. BB included.

1) You can only do so much to coach up crap players. If you have bad ingredients your cake isn’t going to be very good even with the best recipe, if you have an ok recipe your cake will dramatically improve when going from ok ingredients to great ingredients. The importance of personnel CANNOT be overstated.

2) BB is in charge of the coaches. I have long desired to real coordinators, apparently BB doesn’t believe in paying coordinators well, all that means is that no good ones will come to work for you and the ones you develop internally will leave asap and go somewhere else, and will then be competing against you. I believe you get the best damn coordinators and position coaches you can afford, therapists and physical trainers as well, and you do this before you worry about getting players. It flows from the top down and this isn’t going to change.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

Freak injury to Ras-I? They guy was riddled with injury problems throughout his college career. Stupid pick.

The secondary is bad, but the problem is more on the safeties and the linebackers, if you ask me. Safeties are horrid, Chung is sooooo over-rated, Mayo is less than a 100% and the rest of them suck. Spikes - sucks. One good play and everyone get's excited. He's terrible. Ninkovitz - c'mon...JAG at best. Diggs? A special Teams guy. I have a collection of manure on defense. It's so frustrating. The Pats have one of the greatest QB's of all time and they are wasting away the years...

Out of the 46 games that Ras-I Dowling could have played in his college career, he played 40. The guy missed six games (all during his final season of his career). Dowling's "injury plagued" college career all happened in one season where one of the injures was a broken bone (which is not considered a type of injury that would be associated with an injury prone player). I wish people would actually do some investigation on Dowling that just spew the ignorant hater party line. Dowling played for three seasons without injuries in college.

 

[ctpatsfan1]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

Where do you get that Matt Patricia is the acting DC? Patricia is the Safeties Coach. If anyone is acting as the DC, It's Pepper Johnson. They guy wearing the headset.

As for age/experience, umm, McDaniels and Mangini were both ahead of Patricia and O'Brien. In fact, Patricia was a defensive assistant while Mangini was the DC.. So Mangini clearly has a few years on Patricia..

Patricia wears the red sweatshirt/jacket that every DC since Crennel has worn. Patricia is the acting DC, PJ is simply the DL coach.

as for Mangini and McDaniels......when I speak of experience I am talking about overall experience both college and here.

O'Brien has a ton more coaching experience than McDaniels just read his biography

Patracia vs Mangini - about the same age and similar coaching credentials but Mangini grew up at the feet of BB while Patricia has a more diverse background from various sources.

As for Patricia only being the safties coach, do you even watch the games its BB and Patricia who talk to the D on the sidelines and its Patricia who makes the the D calls then of course there is the fact that every Patriot DC wheres the red jacket/outfit on game day.

 

[DefenseRules]

Re: Mike Reiss on Belichick: Maybe it's time to 'revisit' his personnel decision maki

1) You can only do so much to coach up crap players. If you have bad ingredients your cake isn’t going to be very good even with the best recipe, if you have an ok recipe your cake will dramatically improve when going from ok ingredients to great ingredients. The importance of personnel CANNOT be overstated.

2) BB is in charge of the coaches. I have long desired to real coordinators, apparently BB doesn’t believe in paying coordinators well, all that means is that no good ones will come to work for you and the ones you develop internally will leave asap and go somewhere else, and will then be competing against you. I believe you get the best damn coordinators and position coaches you can afford, therapists and physical trainers as well, and you do this before you worry about getting players. It flows from the top down and this isn’t going to change.

If they don't want to pay the coaching staff, then they damn well better have good personnel. I blame BB for the personnel, but I also blame Kraft for some of this. He signs the pay checks. I wonder how much money he gave BB for his coaching staff? I am just pissed. I am so sick and tired of this defense. That game was painful to watch.