Pats Trade for Haynesworth (merged)

[Rob0729]

Sorry if this has been posted before, KC Joyner claims that Haynesworth being a bust in Washington is overrated. I am not a huge fan of value stats, but here is what he wrote:

KC Joyner: There are a multitude of reasons to think the Patriots could get the same level of benefit from the Albert Haynesworth trade that they received from the Randy Moss trade in 2007. I agree that might come as a total surprise to some who view Haynesworth's tenure in Washington as a total bust, but a tape review of that period shows he actually performed quite well for the Skins.




For example, in 2009, Haynesworth had a 33.3 percent point of attack (POA) win rate against running plays directed at him. That total was actually better than his 2007 (32.3 percent) and 2008 (23.8 percent) POA win rates during his last two seasons with the Tennessee Titans. He also fared well in that season in the contact splash play department (a contact splash play is when a defender does something to physically impact a passing play, such as getting a sack, tipping a pass or hitting the quarterback while he is throwing the ball). Haynesworth posted nine of these in 12 games, or an average of three-quarters of a contact splash play every game, a total that equaled his 2007-08 average in that category.



If you point to Haynesworth's struggles, note he did a great job of drawing double-team blocks (39.5 percent), and can even be used as a rush defensive end. Throw in the fact that his per-game totals in sacks, solo tackles, assist tackles and stuffs last year were every bit as good as they were in Tennessee and it shows he is still an impact player.

Running analysis of 2011 NFL free agency and trades - ESPN

 

[JackBauer]

cost waaaaaay too much

Erm.... time to brush up on the specifics.

 

[State]

I was ready to say the same thing, too. That was my understanding. He hates the nose.

Playing in Seymour's old position, except for the two-gap responsibilities, is very similar to what he was doing in Tennessee.

And as someone said he was often double-teamed anyway.

 

[Dutchmaster617]

dont like the move at all. He is a lazy pain in the ass and cost waaaaaay too much. On a positive note, teams are NOT running up the middle on us.

I think Washington is paying him though? I like the move, I just would like some interior offensive line moves better.

 

[aluminum seats]

Hard not to like the move. The risk is minimal, and Belichick knows precisely how to handle guys who could be a problem. He just doesn't let it happen. So if the guy plays well, it's awesome.

 

[DaBruinz]

dont like the move at all. He is a lazy pain in the ass and cost waaaaaay too much. On a positive note, teams are NOT running up the middle on us.

He costs way too much? How do you figure that? Because of his NON-GUARANTEED 5.4 million salary?

If Haynesworth acts up, he's gone. At no cost to the Pats.

And a 5th round pick in 2013?

 

[Defsoul]

What happens if the Patriots have to cut him for whatever reason. Will his 2011 salary count against the cap?

 

[BradyFTW!]

Wasn't clear. It is an effective contract year since I believe that his contract has a massive salary bump or bonus due soon. I'm actually not sure if it is 2012 but it seems likely that if Haynesworth wants to remain a Patriot, it will take a contract renegotiation.

Edit: Just saw he is due under $8M in salary next year (no bonus) so the big jump must be 2013. So I guess it is possible for the Pats to let him play under his contract next year. $7M+ is still a huge chunk of change so he would need to be a stud to justify it.

As I understand it, Washington took on all of his bonus money during the uncapped year, so the remainder of his contract = $5M this year and $6M next year, all of which is base salary so that he can be cut at any time with no cap implications.

 

[DaBruinz]

I think Washington is paying him though? I like the move, I just would like some interior offensive line moves better.

Washington already paid all his bonus money. They are on the hook for that.

The Pats are on the only hook for his salary unless he's cut.

 

[DaBruinz]

What happens if the Patriots have to cut him for whatever reason. Will his 2011 salary count against the cap?

That depends on when he's cut..

 

[VJCPatriot]

Wasn't clear. It is an effective contract year since I believe that his contract has a massive salary bump or bonus due soon. I'm actually not sure if it is 2012 but it seems likely that if Haynesworth wants to remain a Patriot, it will take a contract renegotiation.

Edit: Just saw he is due under $8M in salary next year (no bonus) so the big jump must be 2013. So I guess it is possible for the Pats to let him play under his contract next year. $7M+ is still a huge chunk of change so he would need to be a stud to justify it.

To clear up Haynesworth's contract issue - He missed minicamps in 2010, so his salary for 2011 is not guaranteed. The Pats can cut him at anytime this season and not have to pay him another dime. Also I think he has a big roster bonus due in 2013. So essentially the Pats control AH for two seasons, this one and next at reasonable money.

It kind of is a 'contract year' for Haynesworth because if the Pats aren't pleased with what they got, they can part ways with Haynesworth with no financial repercussions. OTOH if he has an awesome year, he could look forward to renegotiating his deal with the Pats or tearing up his old deal and getting a new one with the player's favorite payment type - upfront bonus money. Financially Haynesworth still takes a significant portion of the cap but nowhere the obscene amount that the Redskins had to pay. If he pans out, AH will be worth every penny for at least a couple of years.

 

[townes]

He's a dog. I don't think this will end well. The risk is low so it won't matter much but few players have been as consistently problematic as Haynesworth. I just don't see his character changing and if it doesn't he won't last.

 

[TruthSeeker]

He's a dog. I don't think this will end well. The risk is low so it won't matter much but few players have been as consistently problematic as Haynesworth. I just don't see his character changing and if it doesn't he won't last.

I have to agree, these were my thoughts when I heard about this trade. I hope we are wrong.

 

[andrewgarrr]

I wonder what kind of shape this guy is in.

 

[Mark12]

Haynseworth has made it public how he is a big fan of the Patriots. I think this is a great place for the rebirth of his career.

Albert Haynesworth a Longtime Fan of Patriots, Tom Brady, Bill Belichick - New England Patriots - NESN.com

 

[BradyBranch39]

I hope he fails his physical. ******* hate him.

 

[Rob0729]

I hope he fails his physical. ******* hate him.

Don't like him either, but I don't like Randy Moss or Corey Dillon either. You suck it up and root for the uniform.

 

[NEPats1]

Would anyone mind literally explaining what physically done differently from a DE in 2 gap vs 1 gap 3-4?

Here's what I think:

In 2 gap, A DE after snap engages with the tackle but doesn't attempt to penetrate because he's waiting for the play to develop and must see whether someone is coming on either side of the tackle. So he's basically kinda "holding" that position and waiting to see what happens.

In a 1 gap, basically the DE is asked to penetrate ASAP and get into the backfield and make plays. Basically just get by your tackle very quickly.

The advantage of the 2 gap is you give up short yardage but few big plays. Thus, it's kinda a "bend but don't break"

The advantage for 1 gap is higher probably of making more plays in the backfield.

How close is this? I hope I'm learning

 

[sbpatfan]

LOL @ some of you clowns. Saying you hate a person you don't even know.

 

[strngplyr]

Haynseworth has made it public how he is a big fan of the Patriots. I think this is a great place for the rebirth of his career.

Albert Haynesworth a Longtime Fan of Patriots, Tom Brady, Bill Belichick - New England Patriots - NESN.com

Notice something subtle, after the hit he appears to give Brady his hand to help him up.

First he grabs his wrist to give him a hand, then he puts his right hand out. I don't see too many players do that period, let alone to someone if you dislike them.

I hope coming to NE and being on a winning team is more motivating for him than the contract Washington gave him. I also think that not being forced to play nose when he's in our 3-4 will help, we've already got one of, if not the best NT in the NFL for this style of defense so he can play DE or DT alongside Wilfork depending on the formation and be his happy old self doing what he does best.