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Brandon Tate's future as a PATRIOT

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I may have missed it but, going back over the thread, I didn't see any posters bringing Tate's lack of production in 2009 into the picture.

Someone was trying to hit home the point that 2010 wasn't a defacto rookie season for him... that he's actually entering his 3rd year.

I think any reasonable person would agree that after just one healthy halfway decent rookie season, it would be silly to write any player off, let alone Tate.
 
Random fact: Tate's YPC went from 12.3 to 22.8 when comparing Moss to post-Moss
 
Someone was trying to hit home the point that 2010 wasn't a defacto rookie season for him... that he's actually entering his 3rd year.

Well, that's true. He is entering his 3rd year. It's also true that he didn't get much playing time, at all, as a rookie. It's almost a redshirt/practice squad player type of situation, in that he was with the team but had minimal playing time, but he was there, he learned, he practiced and he played.

I think any reasonable person would agree that after just one healthy halfway decent rookie season, it would be silly to write any player off, let alone Tate.

Again, it wasn't his rookie season.

Also, (and this is not directed at you, but it goes with the 'reasonable person' statement of yours) I find it amusing that when people like myself were defending Jackson on the basis of injury, and saying that it didn't make sense to cut him so quickly, a fair amount of the homers backed Belichick cutting him, yet here they are defending Tate as if he were a member of their nuclear family, and making ridiculous arguments while trying to do it. What's even more amusing is knowing that a lot of those very same defenders would flip on Tate instantly if he were cut prior to the start of the next season.
 
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This thread is hilarious. Everyone might as well just type 'you're a moron' in each post, it would serve the same purpose.

We actually have people arguing that being on PUP, practicing 3 weeks, getting active and playing a handful of snaps before being injured again is the same as having a full season of experience.

This board gets unreadable when people start slicing up semantics to overcome ever conceeding they have been wrong about anything.
 
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I have a question for the Tate sucks people,

If you want to get rid of Tate, where will the Patriots find a 3rd / 4th option receiver thats also good on KR?

I have a feeling if any receiver is to go, it's Branch.
 
It's almost a redshirt/practice squad player type of situation, in that he was with the team but had minimal playing time, but he was there, he learned, he practiced and he played.

You are just wrong and repeating it doesn't make it any closer to correct. Tate was activated off PUP on October 24th and put on IR on November 14th. Outside of those 3 weeks, he was "with the team" only in the respect that he hung with the Pats medical staff and collected checks from Kraft. He had a handful of practices (more gameplanning than teaching) and 6 quarters of game snaps. While he could attend meetings, reserve players are pretty much on their own and just absorb what they can.

So it really isn't anything like a redshirt situation since he didn't get any practice time in the spring and summer. And it certainly isn't like a practice squad player since he barely...you know...practiced. At the start of 2010, Tate was in better position than a just-drafted rookie, but not by much. And even that advantage was muted by the fact that he was rehabbing through the spring.
 
I have a question for the Tate sucks people,

If you want to get rid of Tate, where will the Patriots find a 3rd / 4th option receiver thats also good on KR?

I have a feeling if any receiver is to go, it's Branch.

I don't think that anyone in this thread, at least that I've seen, wants Tate gone.

That's one of my pet peeves about this forum. The second you criticize a player, half the people take that to mean that you want him cut, and hold you to that position even though you never took it in the first place.

And why Branch? He had the most yards per game, rushing or receiving, on the entire team. How would it make any sense to cut him and rely on a couple of young guys who haven't proven anything at the NFL level to take his place?
 
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Tate is a big questionmark. Yes he hasn't had much time to prove himself. But he hasn't looked very good out there outside of kick returns, and his effectiveness there was mostly early in the year.

I'm really only going to judge Tate based on 2010 because he was battling injuries in 2009 and hardly got to play or practice that season. The problem for Tate is that he was drafted one slot ahead of Mike Wallace so inevitably there are going to be a lot of comparisons to that guy.

I think unlike Wallace, Tate's contributions will mainly come in the return game. So he appears to be somewhat of a disappointment so far. The only silver lining I can see is that receivers usually don't fully bloom until their 3rd season. So 2011 could be a breakout year for Tate.

It's really way too early to judge this kid but a lot of people are impatient. Let's also not forget that we have a guy by the name of Taylor Price who also hasn't had a chance to show off his stuff.
 
You are just wrong and repeating it doesn't make it any closer to correct. Tate was activated off PUP on October 24th and put on IR on November 14th. Outside of those 3 weeks, he was "with the team" only in the respect that he hung with the Pats medical staff and collected checks from Kraft. He had a handful of practices (more gameplanning than teaching) and 6 quarters of game snaps. While he could attend meetings, reserve players are pretty much on their own and just absorb what they can.

So it really isn't anything like a redshirt situation since he didn't get any practice time in the spring and summer. And it certainly isn't like a practice squad player since he barely...you know...practiced. At the start of 2010, Tate was in better position than a just-drafted rookie, but not by much. And even that advantage was muted by the fact that he was rehabbing through the spring.

“I’m feeling good,” Tate told the Herald. “I work out with the trainers. I’m just waiting on the call. Whenever they say I’m ready, I’ll be ready.”...

...Tate was asked how well he’s in touch with the offense and the playbook.

“Everybody is together. The veterans help me out when I need help,” Tate said. “The coaches, they help me out. We all just work together as a unit. I’ve pretty much got (the playbook) down pat. I’m still learning, though.”

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/index.php/2009/09/22/hellooooooo-patriots-rookie-receiver-brandon-tate-im-feeling-good-he-said/

So, according to Tate, it's pretty much exactly as I said, especially since the part you clipped was where I was summing up something earlier in the thread than the post you quoted, when I'd noted:

2.) Tate was not a rookie. He had an NFL season under his belt. No, he didn't play the full season. He did, however, have access to the rehab programs, the weight and workout programs, the medical staff, the coaching staff/playbook, other teammates, and more. He did get in some practices with the team

You might want to take it up with Tate himself, though, as I'm sure you know far more about what his situation was than he did.
 
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You might want to take it up with Tate himself, though, as I'm sure you know far more about what his situation was than he did.

In the time he was unable to practice, Tate spent his time at Gillette Stadium lifting weights and attending meetings.

“It was getting kind of old just sitting there doing nothing,” he said. “The coaches ain’t really talking to you, they’re talking to everybody else. You pretty much have to take your own notes and just know everything.”

BostonHerald.com - Blogs: Rap Sheet» Blog Archive » Patriots WR Brandon Tate amped to get back on the field
 
This thread is hilarious. Everyone might as well just type 'you're a moron' in each post, it would serve the same purpose.

We actually have people arguing that being on PUP, practicing 3 weeks, getting active and playing a handful of snaps before being injured again is the same as having a full season of experience.

This board gets unreadable when people start slicing up semantics to overcome ever conceeding they have been wrong about anything.


That's still not a rookie.
 
I believe a big part of Tate's development that really hasn't been discussed is his body of work in practice with TB.....not knowing how that worked out may hamper judgements about his development as a WR.....

Having Branch come into the picture and TB wanting to get his timing back with his old binkie probably cut into repetitions with his other recievers...
Installing an offense that featured TE's more in the passing game was another...I'm not trying to make excuses for Tate's fumble or muffed passes...but in football...TIMING is everything....

Last season will be big in Tate's development as a WR IMHO...if he regresses this season ( God I hope there IS one)...then it will be time to re-assess what he means to the offense.....even another injury could spell his demise , especially if Price shows any flashes of what BB thinks he can do.....

It's off season and speculation is all I got
 
You might want to take it up with Tate himself, though, as I'm sure you know far more about what his situation was than he did.

None of this is complicated.

He went to meetings, worked out, and had the playbook but he didn't practice with the team.

Going into year two he had a lot more experience than a typical rookie did but less than a normal second year player does.

His didn't perform terrifically well as a WR but it's still early enough in his career that there's hope. The fact that he kept the WR #3 job and they didn't draft a replacement suggests that BB/Obrien/Brady think he's doing ok out there but they don't definitively answer it.
 
I think any reasonable person would agree that after just one healthy halfway decent rookie season, it would be silly to write any player off, let alone Tate.
The key word here is reasonable. Some folks strive to be unreasonable. Who knows why.

Players develop on different timetables, some take longer than others. As long as a player is improving, no one knows their ceiling.
 
This thread is hilarious. Everyone might as well just type 'you're a moron' in each post, it would serve the same purpose.

We actually have people arguing that being on PUP, practicing 3 weeks, getting active and playing a handful of snaps before being injured again is the same as having a full season of experience.

This board gets unreadable when people start slicing up semantics to overcome ever conceeding they have been wrong about anything.

If I'm not mistaken a player must appear in 6 games to gain an accrued season. If that is the case then 2010 was, in fact, Tate's rookie year according to CBA rules. Thanks for playin' along kids.
 
None of this is complicated.

He went to meetings, worked out, and had the playbook but he didn't practice with the team.

Going into year two he had a lot more experience than a typical rookie did but less than a normal second year player does.

His didn't perform terrifically well as a WR but it's still early enough in his career that there's hope. The fact that he kept the WR #3 job and they didn't draft a replacement suggests that BB/Obrien/Brady think he's doing ok out there but they don't definitively answer it.

The part that seems to be more complicated is how to evaluate Tate's 2010 season. For the stat crowd, I'll pose my earlier questions again:

- How many receptions/yards/TDs would have been enough to call Tate a success in 2010?

- To achieve that difference, would you have Brady throw more or divert targets from another receiver? Who?

From a team success perspective, a 14-2 record and a prolific offense (historically so in terms of efficiency) makes it tough to criticize. So it has to be Tate's contribution to that offense. So lets look at that:

Tate had 46 targets but only 24 catches, for a 52% catch rate. People like to mention Wallace who had a 61% rate (same as Jennings). If we keep the same targets but apply a 61% catch rate, Tate's receptions go from 24 to ...wait for it... 28. Is that the difference people are looking for?

But wait you say. Tate was so bad that Belichick and Brady stopped looking for him. The premise being that if Tate was a better receiver, he would have gotten more targets and the stats would have been comparable to players like Wallace and Jennings.

But over the 2nd half of last season, the Pats were 8-0 (5-0 against playoff teams) scoring 31+ points in each game. Over that span, Brady completed 68% of his passes with 22 TDs and no picks. His low QB rating over that span? 107

Are people really suggesting that Belichick and Brady would rather have been chucking the ball to Tate than doing the things that led to those results? Maybe Tate got 46 targets because that is all the offense needed to be successful. With Welker poised for a better year, Woodhead more comfortable in the offense, Gronk and Hernandez emerging as weapons, Edelperson and Price pushing for opportunities, Vereen being an excellent receiver and a likely shift towards a more balanced attack...I'm not sure Tate's targets are going to significantly increase in 2011 regardless of how much he develops. Only a major injury or flushing Branch and his 92 targets will change the math enough to turn Tate into Wallace/Jennings.

So maybe we have to find another way to be look at Tate's contributions to the team. I suspect that if the team continues to be wildly efficient on offense with Tate on the field, he is doing his job. He will need to improve his individual game (driving the DBs on his routes, fighting harder for underthrown deep passes, eliminating the couple of bad drops he had, etc.) to stay on the field. As Belichick has shown many times, if you ain't improvin', you're movin'.
 
After following this thread I have come to the determination that I now have a positive opinion of Brandon. He led the the team in APY with 1555 on 71 touches for a 21.9 Avg. with 5 TD's. He finished 5th in return Avg. and 14th in KR's and KRyards. I'd say he contributed quite well for a player that was, BY CBA RULES, a ROOKIE.

I would like to thank all of his detractors for swaying me into his corner.
 
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After following this thread I have come to the determination that I know have a positive opinion of Brandon. He led the the team in APY with 1555 on 71 touches for a 21.9 Avg. with 5 TD's. He finished 5th in return Avg. and 14th in KR's and KRyards. I'd say he contributed quite well for a player that was, BY CBA RULES, a ROOKIE.

I would to thank all of his detractors for swaying me into his corner.

Is the worth keeping on the team as a KOR and backup receiver? Without a doubt.

Is he ever going to be a legit top two receiver? It's TBD. Lots of guys have started slower than he has and become great (look at Driver or Troy Brown's number some time for comparisons) but the jury is still out.
 
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