A tale of a draft SQUANDERED....

[mgteich]

You seem to realize that Belichick drafts safeties a year before they are absolutely needed. After all, safeties need a year to develop. Heck, Chung was a fine pick and is still developing. To be clear, one of Meriweather and Sanders is likely to be gone after the season (or even when trading starts). We absolutely NEEDED a safety, more than any other defensive position.

That Dowling might be able to play nickel or dime back this year only makes his pick that much better.

Look at the Pats' roster at DB, though:

Leigh Bodden [2013]
James Sanders [2011]
Brandon Meriweather [2011]
Jarrod Page [2011]
Jonathan Wilhite [2011]
Darius Butler [2012]
Patrick Chung [2012]
Josh Barrett [2012]
Kyle Arrington [2011]
Sergio Brown [2013]

For better or worse, the Pats liked Dowling enough that they felt taking him at 33 was better than whatever they could have gotten from a trade.

 

[DaBruinz]

You seem to realize that Belichick drafts safeties a year before they are absolutely needed. After all, safeties need a year to develop. Heck, Chung was a fine pick and is still developing. To be clear, one of Meriweather and Sanders is likely to be gone after the season (or even when trading starts). We absolutely NEEDED a safety, more than any other defensive position.

That Dowling might be able to play nickel or dime back this year only makes his pick that much better.

The Pats didn't "absolutely need a safety" more than any other defensive position.

Jarrod Page is an RFA. He was tendered as such. He may or may not be gone.

Sergio Brown looked pretty good out there. Another year in the system and he could be better than McGowan.

There were no safeties in this draft who are better than what they have currently. One of the tenants of BB's drafting has always been not to put a square peg in a round hole.. Why does anyone think that would change?

 

[jsull87]

we have a huge number of fans in full panic mode because of nothing more than them unable of being more wrong in their predictions.

taking a step back, looking at the roster and then the draft itself lends plenty of logic.


- the OL/RB was by far the most important issue
- the defense is already ridiculously young

now going pick by pick,

solder - addresses a need....end of story
trade away 28 - the only logical picks here would have been 5 tech guys (wilkerson and heyward)....I believe neither showed enough to make BB believe that either would get past deaderick on the depth chart. not worth a 1st, and the rest of the value was poor at the time. move back and leverage next year.
dowling - I thought sheard or brooks would have been logical, but I guess it was simply that neither is worth much in term of coverage and neither brings much over what is already there in cunningham. where would we put another OLB who is not ready to cover?
vereen - kevin faulk replacement. as much fun it was to watch woodhead, I would still rather have faulk as he made the small plays that mattered more consistently....in terms of value, vereen was a 2nd rounder whose value may have dropped in some peoples eyes for no other reason than lack of exposure during a time when players abilities don't change
ridley - I understand the type of RB in the pick........at this point, there was not a 3-4 front 7 player left that would have provided a meaningful contribuition is the logic behind the pick....the only thing I could see that might have been better would have been either moffitt or rackley at OG (in which they got a better player in marcus cannon) or WR with hankerson or pettis.

as for the rest of the draft, its a crapshoot at best so I don't see the big deal.

the offense got younger.

while it was not the way I would have had the draft unfold, I doubt that my knowledge of the game has any meaning in comparison to the ones calling the shots.....neither does nyone elses here

Wow Wow Wow... you need to hold it up a bit there cause you have obviously forgotten what woodhead did last year. I have ever game taped and in my broedom have watched them 2 or 3 times in the offseason. I can tell you this much woodhead's middle name was doing the little things right and getting the extra yard for a 1st. Another person people are not looking at is cunningham and how he will develop he didn't get the sack numbers but he did ALOT of things right last year and i believe he will be a very solid starter at OLB this year.

You can talk about size and explosiveness of those 2 players but doing the little things right isn't a flaw of either (i know you only brought up woodhead but i throw cunningham in that category too of someone undervalued by the fans)

 

[DaBruinz]

Not one of the players you just listed was able to demonstrate conclusively that he was a starter level player last year. The only one who even really flashed at that level was Brace.

Thus the question marks.

Stroud has been a starter level player for years..

They don't need the others to be starters.. They need them to do their jobs effectively.

 

[IllegalContact]

Wow Wow Wow... you need to hold it up a bit there cause you have obviously forgotten what woodhead did last year. I have ever game taped and in my broedom have watched them 2 or 3 times in the offseason. I can tell you this much woodhead's middle name was doing the little things right and getting the extra yard for a 1st. Another person people are not looking at is cunningham and how he will develop he didn't get the sack numbers but he did ALOT of things right last year and i believe he will be a very solid starter at OLB this year.

You can talk about size and explosiveness of those 2 players but doing the little things right isn't a flaw of either (i know you only brought up woodhead but i throw cunningham in that category too of someone undervalued by the fans)

actually, what I was talking about was faulk's ability to pick up the blitzing LB..........something woodhead is not nearly as good at. woodhead makes plays out in the open, but he can't be counted on to be effective at giving brady an extra moment to make the big play.

this is something that vereen comes out of the box at being more effective at.......funny thing is that this is a strangth of ridley's, too.

I have not forgotten what woodhead did, but the pats paid a price for what he can't do as well

 

[Deus Irae]

Stroud has been a starter level player for years..

They don't need the others to be starters.. They need them to do their jobs effectively.

Stroud has been in decline since his Jaguar days, and he did not play at a starter's level last year.

 

[upstater1]

The Pats didn't "absolutely need a safety" more than any other defensive position.

Jarrod Page is an RFA. He was tendered as such. He may or may not be gone.

Sergio Brown looked pretty good out there. Another year in the system and he could be better than McGowan.

There were no safeties in this draft who are better than what they have currently. One of the tenants of BB's drafting has always been not to put a square peg in a round hole.. Why does anyone think that would change?

If I had to guess, Meriweather is gone after this year. 2 Pro Bowls? This guy is going to get a big paycheck from someone. Is he worth $6-7 million a year?

 

[skinnydog]

It's a shame more people can't be objective and have to love everything Belichick does.

This team's biggest problem has been its inability to get off the field on 3rd downs. That correlates directly with the pass rush. There is no edge presence on this team at all. If you want to rely on scheme to pass rush, that's fine but I don't see Belichick turning his defense into a high blitzing Dom Capers/**** LeBeau/Rex Ryan type of defense.

Look at the final 4 teams this past year. They could all rush the passer extremely well. The Jets had Pace, Ellis, an aging Jason Taylor and a pretty aggressive scheme. The Steelers have an aggressive scheme as well as Woodley and Harrison. The Packers have Clay Matthews, an aggressive scheme, and some difference makers on the DL like Jenkins and Raji. The Bears have a passive scheme, but shelled out the cash for one of the best pass rushers in the game -- Peppers.

Even look at the Colts who have Freeney and Mathis, the Chargers when they had a healthy Merriman and Phillips, the Giants when they beat us with Strahan, Tuck, Osi, etc.

The Pats edge presence is laughable in comparison to that. They don't have anyone that instills fear in the opponent's protection scheme. And that's a major problem and a major reason why they allowed nearly 50% of third down attempts to be converted into first downs.

For the life of me, I don't understand why this isn't universally accepted on this board.

 

[DaBruinz]

You're welcome to wait and see, Tune. Others choose not to, preferring to discuss it as it happens and to revisit it over time, and they should be welcome to do so.

Yes. Let them whine and complain and look foolish now and then beat their chests as if they knew exactly what BB was doing. HAH. I can think of one person (myself) who has come on here and given kudos for being proven wrong by BB. And I've done it on several occasions (Dillon, Moss, BJGE). You certainly don't do it, DI.

There is a reason that every GM/Scouting Director/ Coach says that it takes 3 years to evaluate a draft. The reason is that the draft is such a crap shoot.

As I said in another thread, The Ridley pick made me go "Hmm.. " because at first, I didn't understand taking 2 RBs consecutively. But then I remembered that BJGE is an RFA (and could be made a UFA once all the CBA garbage is settled). And I also remembered that Taylor, Faulk and Morris were already UFA. So, adding Ridley made sense. Especially since he could be a short yardage specialist as well as a Larry Centers type Full-back since he can actually catch the ball out of the backfield and has some good agility

For lacking a pass rush, the Pats still had 36 sacks last year, putting them at 14th in the league. And that was without Brace for the last 3 games of the season. Without Mike Wright for almost half the season. And without Ty Warren for the entire season.

BTW, that 36 is the 6th most that the Pats have gotten in the BB Era.

OH.. Yeah.. btw.. the Pats also had 25 interceptions.. Which is like the 3rd most under BB. And that was with a ROOKIE in McCourty and a hodge podge of others opposite him.

 

[TruthSeeker]

actually, what I was talking about was faulk's ability to pick up the blitzing LB..........something woodhead is not nearly as good at.

I thought I heard about 6 or 8 games after we got Woodhead that he had never failed to properly pick up a rusher and give Brady more time. Admittedly, Faulk may make a better block to actually stop the rusher whereas Woodhead is more likely to divert or slow down the rusher, but the end result should be the same if the QB releases the ball at all on time.

 

[DaBruinz]

The Stevan Ridley pick was a serious reach since he was rated no higher than a low fifth round draft pick. As a matter of fact, Stevan Ridley was rated a sixth round draft pick by Mike Mayock.

Meanwhile, the New England Patriots have a huge hole at right guard with the retirement of Stephen Neal and Clint Boling, OG from Georgia offered much better value in the third round than Stevan Ridley.

Would you please stop touting this because it's false. NFLDraftScout said he'd been rated anywhere from a 3rd to a 7th.

NFL Draft Scout----Powered By: The Sports Xchange

How do you KNOW Boling offered better value than Ridley? Or have you totally forgotten that the Pats use their OWN scouting methods and rating of players and don't use the services (IE- they don't use Blesto or any other one.. Including NFLDraftscout.com).

Clearly the Pats felt that Connolly, Wendell, or Cannon offer better skills for the PATS than Boling did. Otherwise, they'd have drafted Boling.

 

[eom]

yeah, we had 36 sacks ---- 9 teams had 40+.
it's true that those 9 included jets, steelers, and packers, but it also included raiders, lions, and rams.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't question the Shane Vereen pick whatsoever since he is a three down back. Meanwhile Stevan Ridley is a poor man's BJGE and does not warrant a draft pick higher than the fifth round. Also Stevan Ridley will be no higher than fourth on the running back depth chart during the 2011 NFL Season.

This is even more proof you just don't know wtf you are talking about. Ridley and BJGE aren't similar runners..

 

[DaBruinz]

Last year, people were fine with the draft after day 2.

Some people are fine with the draft this year as well..

 

[DaBruinz]

Sebastian Vollmer was rated no lower than a late third round draft pick. Drafting a player one round ahead of his draft rating is not such a stretch as opposed to drafting a player three rounds ahead of his draft rating.

NFL Draft Scout----Powered By: The Sports Xchange
.

If you are going to quote a site, the least you could do is actually READ it. It's quite clear they said that the low end for Vollmer was Mid-Late 4th.. Not 3rd as you claim..

 

[DaBruinz]

Then I guess you completely miss the concept of draft value.

And so do you. And you prove it every time that you mention one of those mock draft sites because you ignore the FACT that the Pats don't use the scouting information for places like Blesto.. So quoting sites as if they apply to the Pats is just foolish..

 

[ATippett56]

This is even more proof you just don't know wtf you are talking about. Ridley and BJGE aren't similar runners..

Mister know it all strikes again.

 

[ATippett56]

If you are going to quote a site, the least you could do is actually READ it. It's quite clear they said that the low end for Vollmer was Mid-Late 4th.. Not 3rd as you claim..

No it says late third round.

 

[Patspsycho]

No it says late third round.

Sorry but he is right. Low: Mid-Late 4th.

 

[DaBruinz]

OK, it's been 3 years since the 2008 draft. Conventional wisdom is that we now have enough information to evaluate that draft. Any takers?

It was a mediocre draft. They have Mayo, Wilhite, and Slater from it. Mayo is one of the best ILBs in the league. Wilhite, when healthy, is an adequate Slot Corner and spot starter on the outside. Slater is an outstanding special teams player that plays on all 6 special teams units.

Crable was a bust. O'Connell as well. Wheatley started out well, but couldn't stay healthy. Even after going to the Jaguars. Ruud had his cup of coffee..