Does Parcells belong in the Pats HOF?

[JoeSixPat]

Andy, I have stated why i believe he should be in the Patriots HOF and you disagree, that's where i'm leaving it as neither will change their mind. I realize there isn't a statistical case to be made for it and said so from the outset, however I, like many others, believe Parcells played a major role in keeping the Patriots here and turning them into a perennial winner from the joke of a franchise they were. I'm grateful for that and would like to see that recognized.

The Patriots Hall of Fame Selection Committee members are not shy about admitting they focus on more than just simple statistics...

Tom Curran shared his ballot and reasons, as did Chris Price. Mike Reiss shared his ballot too

My ballot ended up looking like this:

1. Drew Bledsoe
2. Bill Parcells
3. Houston Antwine

I view Bledsoe as a slam dunk and can't imagine him not being inducted on his first opportunity. While Parcells was only here four years (1993-96), and the way he left was not ideal, I still rated him highly because of how he helped turn the franchise around.

Sharing a Pats Hall of Fame ballot - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Everyone opposed to Parcells seems to want to want to ignore overall contributions to the organization and focus only on stats - and even when focusing on stats they'll look at Parcells 4 years and assess it as a mediocre .500 record

Whereas most Patsfans see the value of making the post season twice in 4 years including a Super Bowl appearance.

Just as the Selection Committee members have said, I very much value and recognize the role Bledsoe and Parcells had in turning the entire organization around in 1993, and respect Kraft's own words that the turnaround sealed the deal for him to turn down $75 million and make the record setting offer he did.

Being able to continue to attend New England Patriots games rather than the St. Louis Stallions is important to me - but to each his own.

 

[RayClay]

The Patriots Hall of Fame Selection Committee members are not shy about admitting they focus on more than just simple statistics...

Tom Curran shared his ballot and reasons, as did Chris Price. Mike Reiss shared his ballot too



Everyone opposed to Parcells seems to want to want to ignore overall contributions to the organization and focus only on stats - and even when focusing on stats they'll look at Parcells 4 years and assess it as a mediocre .500 record

Whereas most Patsfans see the value of making the post season twice in 4 years including a Super Bowl appearance.

Just as the Selection Committee members have said, I very much value and recognize the role Bledsoe and Parcells had in turning the entire organization around in 1993, and respect Kraft's own words that the turnaround sealed the deal for him to turn down $75 million and make the record setting offer he did.

Being able to continue to attend New England Patriots games rather than the St. Louis Stallions is important to me - but to each his own.

Leaning heavily on some of the veteran voices in the room, it went to Antwine (1961-71), a Hall of Fame finalist the last two years and six-time Pro Bowler.

lol. Leaning heavily...

Hey Tom, there's a guy named Antwine that should have been in, somebody really srewed up.

You should probably vote him third to cover your ass so it looks like you at least know something about team history.

'nother round?

 

[Ring 6]

Andy, I have stated why i believe he should be in the Patriots HOF and you disagree, that's where i'm leaving it as neither will change their mind. I realize there isn't a statistical case to be made for it and said so from the outset, however I, like many others, believe Parcells played a major role in keeping the Patriots here and turning them into a perennial winner from the joke of a franchise they were. I'm grateful for that and would like to see that recognized.

Thats fine, you are entitled to your opinion. I just disagree.

 

[Ring 6]

The Patriots Hall of Fame Selection Committee members are not shy about admitting they focus on more than just simple statistics...

Tom Curran shared his ballot and reasons, as did Chris Price. Mike Reiss shared his ballot too

So

Everyone opposed to Parcells seems to want to want to ignore overall contributions to the organization and focus only on stats - and even when focusing on stats they'll look at Parcells 4 years and assess it as a mediocre .500 record

Please show me one person who has said this. Please show me one person who has said they are focussed on stats.
The difference is that MANY of us are judging Parcells by the job he did, and you are giving him credit for the jobs other people did.
That is not ignoring anything, that is not focussed on stats, that is saying in the history of the franchise the sum total of his accomplishments do not add up to enough for HOF induction.
Please stop trying to make your argument sound better by flat our lying about what other peoples arguments are.

Whereas most Patsfans see the value of making the post season twice in 4 years including a Super Bowl appearance.

Everyone sees that as an accomplishment. Most do not see it as a HOF worthy one.

Just as the Selection Committee members have said, I very much value and recognize the role Bledsoe and Parcells had in turning the entire organization around in 1993, and respect Kraft's own words that the turnaround sealed the deal for him to turn down $75 million and make the record setting offer he did.

None of that is accurate.

Being able to continue to attend New England Patriots games rather than the St. Louis Stallions is important to me - but to each his own.

Then stop sniffing Parcells jockstrap and campaign for Kraft to be inducted.

 

[JoeSixPat]

None of that is accurate.

Why won't you take Kraft at his word? It really happened that way. Kraft says so.

Kraft knew the team had drafted quarterback Drew Bledsoe #1 overall in the NFL Draft on April 25, 1993 and legendary head coach Bill Parcells had the team moving in the right direction. The team had won only one of its first twelve games under Parcells but ended 1993 on a four-game winning streak.

Jonathan Kraft recalls his dad turning to him-like a shark smelling blood in the water-as the Patriots' last victory drove the crowd into a mad frenzy: "The crowd was just going nuts. They were just dying to have stability and commitment to a championship. Robert turned to me and said, 'There's no way I'm not buying this franchise.'"

What do you have against the members of the selection committee? Mike Reiss? Did Chris Price insult you when he was a member here?

Most people have a great deal of respect for them and they've made their support for Parcells and the reasons behind it clear.

They and other members of the Selection Committee have gone out of their way to make note of the role that a Parcells/Bledsoe led resurgence of fan support during those dark ages - and Kraft has specifically cited that as the catalyst for his decision to pull the trigger and buy the team.

It's interesting that at least one of the members of the Patriots Selection Committee isn't shy about what he thinks about fans that can't come to terms with the role Parcells and Bledsoe played.. and he's not hiding behind a pseudonym either.

But those of us on the nominating committee apparently threw a curve ball at the voters when our secret ballot made Bledsoe's former coach, Bill Parcells, one of the finalists along with 1960s defensive end Houston Antwine.

In recent days, the presence of both Bledsoe and Parcells on the ballot has dredged up a lot of negative comments by short-sighted fans that either weren't old enough or intelligent enough to understand the state of the franchise when both arrived here.

I wrote in a recent column that I anticipated I'd hear the old "he's a statue" comments about Bledsoe, or the "he left us for the Jets!" whines about Parcells, and a lot of brain-dead New England "fans" have not disappointed me.

Fortunately, I believe they're in the minority.

Let's hope he's right that the silent majority of Patriots nation retains the ability to see things as they really were.

FARINELLA: Bledsoe deserves Patriots' Hall nod - The Sun Chronicle Online - Sports

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

What do you have against the Krafts? Why won't you take them at his word?



What do you have against the members of the selection committee? Mike Reiss? Did Chris Price insult you when he was a member here?

Most people have a great deal of respect for them and they've made their support for Parcells and the reasons behind it clear.

They and other members of the Selection Committee have gone out of their way to make note of the role that a Parcells/Bledsoe led resurgence of fan support during those dark ages - and Kraft has specifically cited that as the catalyst for his decision to pull the trigger and buy the team.

It's interesting that at least one of the members of the Patriots Selection Committee isn't shy about what he thinks about fans that can't come to terms with the role Parcells and Bledsoe played.. and he's not hiding behind a pseudonym either.



Let's hope he's right that the silent majority of Patriots nation retains the ability to see things as they really were.

FARINELLA: Bledsoe deserves Patriots' Hall nod - The Sun Chronicle Online - Sports

Typical lazy agenda-driven garbage consistent with the New England football media.

"The truth of the matter is that Brady did not participate in a total rebuilding of the franchise the way Bledsoe did. Bledsoe and Parcells - heck, even Pete Carroll to a much lesser extent - built something where there had been nothing. Bill Belichick had to do a lot of rebuilding to repair the gradual decline of the Carroll years"

As I said earlier, this guy is an idiot.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Typical lazy agenda-driven garbage consistent with the New England football media.

"The truth of the matter is that Brady did not participate in a total rebuilding of the franchise the way Bledsoe did. Bledsoe and Parcells - heck, even Pete Carroll to a much lesser extent - built something where there had been nothing. Bill Belichick had to do a lot of rebuilding to repair the gradual decline of the Carroll years"

As I said earlier, this guy is an idiot.

The "total rebuilding"

Shall we start another thread to explain this concept for you and how there actually was some critical rebuilding developments with this organization when Brady was in high school? Maybe even middle school? Maybe even some things that had to do with whether the team would remain in Foxboro?

But yes - I understand you respect this member of the Patriots Hall of Fame Selection committee almost as poorly as you view Chris Price's opinion... who as we now know thanks to you, uses Twitter and thus is not a credible journalist.

 

[RayClay]

The "total rebuilding"

Shall we start another thread to explain this concept for you and how there actually was some critical rebuilding developments with this organization when Brady was in high school? Maybe even middle school? Maybe even some things that had to do with whether the team would remain in Foxboro?

But yes - I understand you respect this member of the Patriots Hall of Fame Selection committee almost as poorly as you view Chris Price's opinion... who as we now know thanks to you, uses Twitter and thus is not a credible journalist.

The difference between us is, I know everything you know and there's 3 times as much I know that you take pride in knowing nothing about.

I also know about baseball at the trurn of the century and classical composers of the 16-1800s, because I read and learn.

Learn about the entire history of your team sometime and have a good laugh at yourself over the concept that Parcells and only Parcells, built, rebuilt, rebuilt and built again the team that you now know as the New England patriots.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Learn about the entire history of your team sometime and have a good laugh at yourself over the concept that Parcells and only Parcells, built, rebuilt, rebuilt and built again the team that you now know as the New England patriots.

Where on earth, did you come up with the notion that the Patriots Hall of Fame Selection Committee is saying that Parcells - and ONLY Parcells, is responsible for the rebuilding of the New England Patriots?

Is that what you've warped my contention that, yes, indeed the "Selection Committee was completely justified in nominating Parcells to the Patriots Hall of Fame" into?

I think we can just close the thread now. This is pointless.

 

[RayClay]

Where on earth, did you come up with the notion that the Patriots Hall of Fame Selection Committee is saying that Parcells - and ONLY Parcells, is responsible for the rebuilding of the New England Patriots?

..............................

The "total rebuilding"

Shall we start another thread to explain this concept for you and how there actually was some critical rebuilding developments with this organization when Brady was in high school? Maybe even middle school? Maybe even some things that had to do with whether the team would remain in Foxboro?

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

The "total rebuilding"

Shall we start another thread to explain this concept for you and how there actually was some critical rebuilding developments with this organization when Brady was in high school? Maybe even middle school? Maybe even some things that had to do with whether the team would remain in Foxboro?

But yes - I understand you respect this member of the Patriots Hall of Fame Selection committee almost as poorly as you view Chris Price's opinion... who as we now know thanks to you, uses Twitter and thus is not a credible journalist.

I think Price does a pretty good job when he's not quoting twitter in his articles. This however is just a poorly written pile of crap, it sounds like a 10 year old writing about his favorite player. And no I don't respect this guy, why should I? He's a lousy writer.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

The "total rebuilding"

Shall we start another thread to explain this concept for you and how there actually was some critical rebuilding developments with this organization when Brady was in high school? Maybe even middle school? Maybe even some things that had to do with whether the team would remain in Foxboro?

But yes - I understand you respect this member of the Patriots Hall of Fame Selection committee almost as poorly as you view Chris Price's opinion... who as we now know thanks to you, uses Twitter and thus is not a credible journalist.

There's nothing you need to explain to me.

FARINELLA: Bledsoe deserves Patriots' Hall nod - The Sun Chronicle Online - Sports

"The truth of the matter is that Brady did not participate in a total rebuilding of the franchise the way Bledsoe did. Bledsoe and Parcells - heck, even Pete Carroll to a much lesser extent - built something where there had been nothing. Bill Belichick had to do a lot of rebuilding to repair the gradual decline of the Carroll years"



So Brady "didn't participate in a total rebuilding of the franchise the way Bledsoe did" but "Bill Belichick had to do a lot of rebuilding to repair the gradual decline of the Carroll years"

While at the same time:

"Heck, even Pete Carroll to a much lesser extent - built something where there had been nothing"
but "Bill Belichick had to do a lot of rebuilding to repair the gradual decline of the Carroll years."

This may be the dumbest couple of consecutive sentences ever written, do I need to start another thread to explain this concept for you that quoting an idiot doesn't help your cause.

By the way, Brady had to clean up Bledsoe's mess of a 7-19 record from midway 1999 untill Bledsoes injury in early 2001 on way to leading the team to it's first ever SB win. If that's not rebuilding , I don't know what is.

If this was baseball, they'd be calling you a pink hat.

Do yourself a favor and watch NFLN top 100 players and try to catch John Hannah at #24 and then come back to me and try to convince me that everything began and ended with Parcells and Bledsoe.

 

[jmt57]

Though I have not read through all 30 pages of this debate it seems like one thing that is being lost in this (as well as the 'does Bledsoe belong' and 'does Antwine belong') debate is that many seem to be missing the primary, current question.

The question being asked is not whether or not Bill Parcells belongs in the Patriots Hall of Fame.

The question being asked is not whether or not Drew Bledsoe belongs in the Patriots Hall of Fame.

The question being asked is not not whether or not Houston Antwine belongs in the Patriots Hall of Fame.


The selection committee has already determined that all three of them deserve to be in the Patriots Hall of Fame.


The next question - the question being asked to fans of the New England Patriots - is this:


Which one of those three is the most deserving to be inducted into the Patriots Hall of Fame?

 

[eagle eye]

If you want to start a new thread go ahead, the question posed in this thread is whether or not Bill Parcells belongs in the Patriots' HOF.

I say no and so do many others. We don't care whether he was put in it or not we are allowed have our say.

I find it disgusting that Bill Parcells is even in the reckoning after the way he left us and what ensued with him joining the Jets and paying the big money to take Curtis Martin off us.

I don't know what age you are but I think most people who were around at that time really hate the thought of Parcells in the HOF. I know I do but I guess if you weren't around at the time then its easy to look back on things and not remember the hurt that the fans felt at that time.

 

[Triumph]

If you want to start a new thread go ahead, the question posed in this thread is whether or not Bill Parcells belongs in the Patriots' HOF.

I say no and so do many others. We don't care whether he was put in it or not we are allowed have our say.

I find it disgusting that Bill Parcells is even in the reckoning after the way he left us and what ensued with him joining the Jets and paying the big money to take Curtis Martin off us.

I don't know what age you are but I think most people who were around at that time really hate the thought of Parcells in the HOF. I know I do but I guess if you weren't around at the time then its easy to look back on things and not remember the hurt that the fans felt at that time.

Here, here.

For all the good Parcells did arriving in NE, he looted and burned some of it on his way out of town. Job hunting during Super Bowl week is inexcusable.

I will never believe that Parcells wanted to win that Super Bowl for Bob Kraft. Never.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I think Price does a pretty good job when he's not quoting twitter in his articles. This however is just a poorly written pile of crap, it sounds like a 10 year old writing about his favorite player. And no I don't respect this guy, why should I? He's a lousy writer.

Note to all reporters - do not share reader feedback - from Twitter or any other means of communication or else ArmchairQB will lose respect for you.

Does this mean Mike Reiss, who also supports Parcells in the HoF writes "piles of crap" with his Mailbag?

Thanks for making my point. Most fans here have a lot of respect for Chris Price.

 

[JoeSixPat]

..............................

Yes. The rebuilding of the franchise started before Brady arrived. I'd say a particular low point prompting a start of the total rebuilding was when every effort was made to rename them the "St. Louis Stallions."

The New England Patriots Selection committee seems to understand this perfectly well.

Bob Kraft will tell you that he was working very hard to rebuild the franchise before Brady arrived.

What don't you and ArmchairQB understand about this?

 

[RayClay]

Yes. The rebuilding of the franchise started before Brady arrived. I'd say a particular low point prompting a start of the total rebuilding was when every effort was made to rename them the "St. Louis Stallions."

The New England Patriots Selection committee seems to understand this perfectly well.

Bob Kraft will tell you that he was working very hard to rebuild the franchise before Brady arrived.

What don't you and ArmchairQB understand about this?

Well, in your 15 year history of the franchise, there was only one building of the franchise, so if we're going to agree the franchise was founded 15-20 years ago, I'll agree that Parcells helped build it, by saying yes when he was offered the job. Happy?

 

[RayClay]

Note to all reporters - do not share reader feedback - from Twitter or any other means of communication or else ArmchairQB will lose respect for you.

Does this mean Mike Reiss, who also supports Parcells in the HoF writes "piles of crap" with his Mailbag?

Thanks for making my point. Most fans here have a lot of respect for Chris Price.

Reiss, who is my favorite, does not know anywhere near enough about the history of the team he covers.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Well, in your 15 year history of the franchise, there was only one building of the franchise, so if we're going to agree the franchise was founded 15-20 years ago, I'll agree that Parcells helped build it, by saying yes when he was offered the job. Happy?

Oh - so you actually think that specific member of the Patriots Selection Committee is actually unaware of when the Boston Patriots/New England Patriots were formed? Shall we start a new thread to discuss the definition of "building" and "rebuilding'? (I noticed you've decided to change the words of that selection committee member to "founded")

Give me a break.

Let's make this simple.

Answer these yes or no questions:

1. Were the New England Patriots considered a credible, respected organization, not in danger of moving to St. Louis at the time that Parcells and Bledsoe arrived?

2. Were the New England Patriots considered a credible, respected organization, not in danger of moving to St. Louis at the time that Tom Brady arrived?

Do some research, get back to us with your answers, and then you might begin to understand some of the reasons why Mike Reiss, Chris Price, Mark Farinella and other members of the New England Hall of Fame Committee have nominated both Parcells and Bledsoe.