Does Parcells belong in the Pats HOF?

[eagle eye]

No freaking way. Its not that he left its what he did after that. Going to the Jets is unforgiveable, taking Curtis Martin there is unforgiveable.

No way he belongs in the Patriots hall of fame.

 

[JoeSixPat]

No freaking way. Its not that he left its what he did after that. Going to the Jets is unforgiveable, taking Curtis Martin there is unforgiveable.

No way he belongs in the Patriots hall of fame.

It seems like Chris Price and others on the selection committee forgave him.

It Is What It Is Why I gave these three a Hall Pass

2.) Parcells: In many ways, I saw Bledsoe and Parcells as a package deal. The transformative powers of the two helped deliver a jolt of respectability to a franchise that was coming off a three-year stretch where they won a total of nine games. In all, the Patriots went from 2-14 in 1992 to a Super Bowl XXXI appearance in 1996 after four years under Parcells. He departed on less than gracious terms, but his impact on the franchise is undeniable. He changed the culture of football in New England. On Twitter, the feeling about Parcells in the Patriots Hall of Fame was loud and clear — @CraigMacCormack said: “There should be no debate on Parcells or Bledsoe for #Patriots HOF. They LED the team to #SuperBowl. Enough said.” And @GR365patriot added: “I think Parcells turned around the Patriots! Bledsoe was good but Parcells turned the franchise around.”

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Um - you said that Parcells is not worthy because he, unlike Fairbanks, has seen none of his Patriots draftees make Canton.

Care to guess who else currently has none?

Well a player has to be retired for five years before he is eligible for the HOF, so it wouldn't make any sense to hold that against Belichick now would it? Do I really even need to qualify this?

I never even said Parcells isn't worthy, I've said all along judge Parcells on his accomplishments, not someone else's. However, since Parcells gets credit for drafting players why shouldn't Fairbanks who drafted 2 of the 4 Patriots in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Fairbanks also turned around a team in disarray and had more wins 46 and a better winning pct .541 than Parcells 32 wins and .500.

The Patriots were 2-14 in 1981, Raymond Berry got them to the SB in 1985. Berry has more wins 48, a better winning percentage .552, MORE PLAYOFF WINS 3 than Parcells and a Super Bowl appearance.

The problem is not that Parcells isn't worthy of the nomination, it's that the members of the nomination commitee are like most Patriot fans and believe that the team's history began in the year 1993.

Parcells own opinion on his contribution to the current team is "I don't really think I had a whole lot to do with that."



Read more at: Transcript: Bill Parcells Conference Call

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

It seems like Chris Price and others on the selection committee forgave him.

It Is What It Is Why I gave these three a Hall Pass

Here's a little hint. When using a journalist's opinion to back up your stance on a particular subject, try using one that isn't quoting twitter accounts.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Here's a little hint. When using a journalist's opinion to back up your stance on a particular subject, try using one that isn't quoting twitter accounts.

You do understand that Price is an actual member of the Patriots Hall of Fame Selection Committee don't you?

I don't need to spell that out for you - or the fact that reporters like to promote their twitter accounts - do I?

Thanks for the contribution. Ignore the relevant information, but slam Chris for providing some twitter feedback to his choices? Nice.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

You do understand that Price is an actual member of the Patriots Hall of Fame Selection Committee don't you?

I don't need to spell that out for you - or the fact that reporters like to promote their twitter accounts- do I?

Thanks for the contribution. Ignore the relevant information, but slam Chris for providing some twitter feedback to his choices? Nice.

Like's to promote his own twitter account, that's some real journalistic integrity. His relevant information consists of twitter quotes from random weirdos.

 

[RayClay]

Without Wiggy and Redmond, there is no dynasty.

That's very true.

Their contributions were some of the greatest since Kraft was first awarded the franchise by the NFL.

 

[eagle eye]

Like's to promote his own twitter account, that's some real journalistic integrity. His relevant information consists of twitter quotes from random weirdos.

Well the guy used to post on here and he was excellent. I have great respect for Christopher Price.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Well the guy used to post on here and he was excellent. I have great respect for Christopher Price.

I was half joking but I refuse to take any reporting seriously that includes quotes from twitter as reference.

 

[shirtsleeve]

I haven't read the 2,683,987 posts before this one. I dont have to. This is a no stinkin brainer. The Tuna most certainly belongs. Its not even up for discussion. Never mind what he did to turn the team around. The players he drafted and got here were pivitol in our first SB win. He also inadvertantly brought us BB.

The guy is without a doubt the second best coach to ever coach this franchise. He also would not have left if Kraft had not butt his nose in on the draft. This feud and split resulted in Kraft backing out and not being another Jones from the Cowboys. It taught Krafty the most valuable of lessons, which allowed BB to have the control he needed to get us all those championships...

First ballot no brainer.

 

[Ring 6]

Um - you said that Parcells is not worthy because he, unlike Fairbanks, has seen none of his Patriots draftees make Canton.

Care to guess who else currently has none?

Thats not even close to what he said.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I haven't read the 2,683,987 posts before this one. I dont have to. This is a no stinkin brainer. The Tuna most certainly belongs. Its not even up for discussion. Never mind what he did to turn the team around. The players he drafted and got here were pivitol in our first SB win. He also inadvertantly brought us BB.

The guy is without a doubt the second best coach to ever coach this franchise. He also would not have left if Kraft had not butt his nose in on the draft. This feud and split resulted in Kraft backing out and not being another Jones from the Cowboys. It taught Krafty the most valuable of lessons, which allowed BB to have the control he needed to get us all tThe hose championships...

First ballot no brainer.

See, that's a crock but it's what the media has led you to believe. Kraft was absolutely dead balls right in butting heads with Parcells whose shortlived turnarounds are a media fabrication. Lots of HC's and GM's have delivered these phony shortlived unsustainable turnarounds...lots of guys get hired to and generate a buzz and little more. Lots of guys create looming roster and cap catastrophies in their wake, which he did here and in NY. The real heros and geniuses are the guys who clean up the messes those guys created and end up constructing sustainable contenders. That was what saw Kraft as the difference between the two Bill's. One respected the owner's football business accumen and long term franchise vision in the FA/salary cap era, the other was a self absorbed, committment phoebic who had nothing but contempt for anyone or any agenda beyond that of the egomaniac in his mirror. Belichick has proven to be a better HC and de-facto GM and Kraft has proven to be a more competent and visionary owner than Parcell's has proven to be a turnaround specialist...

Parcell's isn't even a first ballot Pro Football HOF'er, something Peter King even opined after the details of his departure from NE came out in 2004, although his worshipers in the media will make him one. He won two championships with a Giants team AND GM AND COACHING STAFF he inherited the core of from Ray Perkins back in the 80's and he hasn't won a damn thing in more than 2 decades since.

Giants 8 years w/BB 77-49 11-8 and 2 SB
NE 3 years wo/BB 21-27 0-1
1 year w/BB 11-5 2-1
NY 3 years w/BB 29-19 1-1
Dallas 4 years wo/BB 34-30 0-2
Miami... not the HC but handed carte blanche he sure has left them in a mess...

 

[Ring 6]

This whole thread has gone nuts....

People REALLY HATE Parcells with a passion.

I don; think his contributions were significant enough to warrant induction into the HOF does niot equal hate with passion.

I REALLY underestimated that - and I've been a die hard fan since the 70s! (Though apparently I remember the pre-Parcells darkness a lot better than some)

No, actually you ust overestimated PArcells impact.

I took pride that the selection committee recognized all the important contributions made by Parcells and his role in Patriots history. I actually thought that showed a great degree of class for an organization, to recognize his contributions even in spite of how it ended

That has to be one of the most bizarre statements I have ever read.
How do you take pride in what a committee votes on?
The ORGANIZATION did not do anything, a bunch of media people did.

Worse than Worst at to first in 4 years... 2 playoff appearances... 1 Super Bowl appearance.

Sounds pretty good huh? (Nope - the Parcells haters will tell you he's a .500 coach.)

Exactly, pretty good. Not LEGENDARY.

Yet even when presented with Krafts own words that Parcells' respect and his late season winning streak that whipped the fans into a frenzy served as the catalyst for his purchase, we see folks in denial

Disagreing with Joesixpat does not equal denial. Bob Kraft saying that fans were excited by Parcells leading the team to 4 late season wins is a nice thing. Its not HOF material.

That was a huge contribution to Patriots history right there - there's no stat there, but then again the Patriots Hall of Fame goes out of its way to include those with off field accomplishments as they did with Sullivan.

Perhaps they do or will, but that doesn't mean it has to be my criteria.

The only thing I think we can agree on is that the Official Patriots Hall of Fame Selection Committee nominated Bill Parcells to the Patriots Hall of Fame for his contributions to the team.

No we can agree the grass is green the sky is blue.

The thing you have to ask yourself is this. Can you say that aloud without gritting your teeth?

If you can't you might actually be a LITTLE bit biased on this issue, and that might be coloring your perception.

What are you talking about?
You are making the strawman that the only reason to not want Parcells in the HOF is the way he left. Thats not true. I dont think he belongs because his accomplishments were not significant enough.

 

[JoeSixPat]

This is a perfect example of you acting like a child.
No one disputes his positives. (Except your ridiculous claim that he is the reason Kraft bought the team)

You mean Bob Kraft's rediculous claim?

Look - I can't help it if Kraft's own words undermine your contention that Chris Price and others on the selection committee are wrong... but Parcells (and Bledsoe, who I actually voted for) DO in fact deserve credit for turning the team around in 1993.

Without that amazing turnaround that season, and without the fan support it created, Kraft would have heeded Myra's advice to take the $75 million and run.

But Kraft knew things were now different in New England and he made his move. The rest is history.

Some just seem to be in denial of Parcells role in that history - but the selection committee clearly did not.

Look above - you can't even bring yourself to admit a fact: That the New England Patriots Hall of Fame Selection Committee nominated Bill Parcells to the Patriots Hall of Fame!

 

[JoeSixPat]

Well the guy used to post on here and he was excellent. I have great respect for Christopher Price.

I'll second that.

Pretty much everyone here has a ton of respect for Chris and how he carved out a very good sports reporting career for himself.

Unfortunately he may have made a fatal mistake in singing Parcells' praises and deeming him worthy of the Pats HoF. Look how quickly ArmchairQB turned on him.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

You mean Bob Kraft's rediculous claim?

Look - I can't help it if Kraft's own words undermine your contention that Chris Price and others on the selection committee are wrong... but Parcells (and Bledsoe, who I actually voted for) DO in fact deserve credit for turning the team around in 1993.

Without that amazing turnaround that season, and without the fan support it created, Kraft would have heeded Myra's advice to take the $75 million and run.

But Kraft knew things were now different in New England and he made his move. The rest is history.

Some just seem to be in denial of Parcells role in that history - but the selection committee clearly did not.

Look above - you can't even bring yourself to admit a fact: That the New England Patriots Hall of Fame Selection Committee nominated Bill Parcells to the Patriots Hall of Fame!

Once again, you're crediting Parcells for something Kraft did. Kraft had been positioning himself for close to a decade to buy the team. So he was at a game and the crowd was excited and he made a comment about doing something he was already planning to do, which is buy the team. For that you want Parcells in the HOF, for creating a sense of excitment at a game. I was at a game where Zolak started at QB and beat the 49ers, the crowd seemed excited, does that mean Zolak should be in the Hall too?

 

[JoeSixPat]

Once again, you're crediting Parcells for something Kraft did. Kraft had been positioning himself for close to a decade to buy the team. So he was at a game and the crowd was excited and he made a comment about doing something he was already planning to do, which is buy the team. For that you want Parcells in the HOF, for creating a sense of excitment at a game. I was at a game where Zolak started at QB and beat the 49ers, the crowd seemed excited, does that mean Zolak should be in the Hall too?

No - Kraft is giving Parcells credit for what Parcells did and the impact that had on him. Go back and read his remarks.

You don't do yourself any favors comparing that historic period of time with one win by Scott Zolak. Do you really not see a difference?

Also go back and read what a well-respected member of the Patriots Hall of Fame Selection committee had to say about his nomination of Parcells. Even you can't deny that the selection committee obviously views this differently than you.

I do realize that we're talking about what was happening here 20 years ago - and that many of todays fans who will be voting were either not fans, don't remember, or in some cases weren't alive or out of elementary school.

But trust me - just as Kraft himself has acknowledged, as well as members of the selection committee, before Parcells turned things around those were very dark days.

There's no on field statistic related to Parcells and Bledsoe's role in serving as a catalyst for Kraft's purchase - but we also know that the Patriots Hall of Fame selection committee goes out of its way to go beyond simple stats and recognize contributions to the organization as whole.

 

[eagle eye]

No - Kraft is giving Parcells credit for what Parcells did and the impact that had on him. Go back and read his remarks.

Also go back and read what a well-respected member of the Patriots Hall of Fame Selection committee had to say about his nomination of Parcells. Even you can't deny that the selection committee obviously views this differently than you.

I do realize that we're talking about what was happening here 20 years ago - and that many of todays fans who will be voting were either not fans, don't remember, or in some cases weren't alive or out of elementary school.

But trust me - just as Kraft himself has acknowledged, as well as members of the selection committee, before Parcells turned things around those were very dark days.

Look I'm not going to say that Parcells didn't have a positive impact on the New England Patriots. As you see I admire Chris Price too, it doesn't mean we will agree on everything though.

Fact is that Parcells did the unthinkable, he walked out and went to the Jets. He didn't care about contracts or anything else as he was willing to be there as an 'advisor'(head coach in all but name) rather than spend the year out of football. In other words he was going to try and cheat his way around his contract. Signing Curtis Martin put him over the top in my book.

That stuff hurt me very much as a fan. It felt like Parcells was trying to undo all the good work he had done with the Patriots by taking our young superstar and coaching up our biggest rivals. All the hate between the Jets and Patriots really started there, sure there was a competitiveness and we didn't like each other before then but thats where it turned into a serious hatred for many people.

For me what he did after he left here is unforgiveable and he has no place in the Patriots HOF.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Look I'm not going to say that Parcells didn't have a positive impact on the New England Patriots. As you see I admire Chris Price too, it doesn't mean we will agree on everything though.

Fact is that Parcells did the unthinkable, he walked out and went to the Jets. He didn't care about contracts or anything else as he was willing to be there as an 'advisor'(head coach in all but name) rather than spend the year out of football. In other words he was going to try and cheat his way around his contract. Signing Curtis Martin put him over the top in my book.

That stuff hurt me very much as a fan. It felt like Parcells was trying to undo all the good work he had done with the Patriots by taking our young superstar and coaching up our biggest rivals. All the hate between the Jets and Patriots really started there, sure there was a competitiveness and we didn't like each other before then but thats where it turned into a serious hatred for many people.

For me what he did after he left here is unforgiveable and he has no place in the Patriots HOF.

I feel very nearly the same way... but clearly the Patriots Hall of Fame Selection Committee - while acknowledging that both Bledsoe and Parcells did not have story book endings, gave both Bledsoe and Parcells their support as "deserving of nomination"

These guys all know how Parcells and Bledsoe left town - though they clearly feel that doesn't negate their contributions to the organization. And Parcells didn't make the list just because of Price. He would have had to have significant support from the committee as a whole to make the list.

One of the reasons I picked Bledsoe was, as with my 2nd place support of Parcells, because of his contributions in resurrecting a team at a time when pretty much every fan (except Bob Kraft following that great end of season win streak) felt it was a sure thing that we'd be watching the St. Louis Stallions the following fall.

Members of the selection committee - Price, Curran, probably others - seem to feel the same way.

Many fans forget that it seemed to be a done deal before that late season run. Heck they even had a logo, uniforms and hats for fans made up.



Some fans seem to think that a contribution to keeping the team in New England should not be considered as a factor for eligibility - but the members of the selection committee obviously don't see things the same way.

 

[townes]

You misunderstood. They have been the best team the last 10, Only because of the last 10 are they the best the last 20. The 10 before they were so-so.


Parcells is not the reason the team didn't move Kraft is.
The franchise would be exactly where it is today if 2001-2011 happened regardless of whether Parcells or Bledsoe was ever here. I am glad we were competitive then, but we could have won 10 games from 1993-1996 combined, and that would have zero impact on the credibility of the dynasty that followed.


I am judging him on the job he was paid to do. Why is that disingenuous?
I have stated that is pretty good considering what he inherited, but it is what it is. The length of his tenure is very important in considering whether he belongs on the list of the greatest contributors in the history of the franchise.


Come on. You want to put Parcells in the HOF by arguing that Kraft 'learned his lesson' from Parcells, and BBs success belongs to Parcells?
Kraft wanted no part of Parcells after 4 years. Kraft hired BB becuase of BB, because he knew him, not because he was looking for a Parcells clone, which BB is far from.


He left becuase he couldnt choose the groceries, how does he get in the HOF for the groceries he says someone else picked?



I'm not worried about stats, I am judging him by the job he did.
I cannot in good concscience give him credit for other peoples success. That short changes the people who really deserve the credit.

Andy, I have stated why i believe he should be in the Patriots HOF and you disagree, that's where i'm leaving it as neither will change their mind. I realize there isn't a statistical case to be made for it and said so from the outset, however I, like many others, believe Parcells played a major role in keeping the Patriots here and turning them into a perennial winner from the joke of a franchise they were. I'm grateful for that and would like to see that recognized.