Could you see this trade happening?

[Off The Grid]

It was posted over on Football's Future.

It seems like it's at the limit of an acceptable trade:

NE trades 28
WAS trades 41 + 2012 1st

Would you make that trade?

Yes I would do this trade in a heartbeat.

Shades of the Kyle Boller trade all over again.

I'm afraid not.

And that trade is so egregiously unfair to the Red Skins that even Dan Snyder would turn it down: 990 Points for 660 Points is LUDICROUS ~ whatever the differences between Book Value and Market Value may be ~ and there's just no chance in HELL that happens.

***

The Boller trade involved #19, not #28.

There is a YAWNING gap in Value between the two.

And the Boller trade was with a perennial contender who's ensuing 1st Rounder could be expected to depreciate in value, as indeed it did.

The RedSkins, on the other hand, are always candidates for a Face Plant.

***

The RedSkins trade could only make sense for both parties if we traded them #17.

 

[DW Toys]

I think the Skins want to drop down a little later for Locker or Mallett. #10 for #28 +#60+#92. Those numbers do not equate to 1,300 but than again Mallet or Locker are not worth 1,300 this early. Shanny needs picks desperately. A first second and third represent good value and I say he bites on this. The Skins have no third or fourth pick.
That gives us:
#10
#17
#33
#74
+4th, 5th and 6th
The trade chart is only a guide.
DW Toys

 

[DaBruinz]

While without the context of a CBA, amateur drafts are probably illegal, the alternative is for NFL teams to start recruiting NCAA players starting in their sophomore years, much like the colleges target HS kids, complete with illegal benefits etc.

I don't think anybody wants that outcome.

I am fairly certain that, from 1989 through 1993, the NFL still had drafts even though there was no CBA.

 

[dryheat44]

I am fairly certain that, from 1989 through 1993, the NFL still had drafts even though there was no CBA.

All that means is that the players didn't ask a federal judge or petition Congress to declare the draft illegal.

It's an artificial restriction of labor, pure and simple. That is illegal unless both sides agree to abide by it. If the players association decides that in the future the entire pool of players are to be unrestricted free agents, they're on solid legal footing.

 

[Spiral]

All that means is that the players didn't ask a federal judge or petition Congress to declare the draft illegal.

It's an artificial restriction of labor, pure and simple. That is illegal unless both sides agree to abide by it. If the players association decides that in the future the entire pool of players are to be unrestricted free agents, they're on solid legal footing.

What you're saying is correct in the legal sense. There can be no draft unless agreed to in a collective bargaining agreement. However, the converse is also true: without a draft, there will be no new CBA. The owners would never agree to that.

 

[Spiral]

I have to disagree. The league has warned teams to "trade for 2012 draft picks at your own risk". With the courts involved, the NFL is recognizing the remote possibility that the courts could throw out the draft in future years.
It is my understanding, due to this uncertainty, that a third round pick in the 2011 draft has the approximate value of a 1st rounder in 2012. Normally there is only a one round premium ( ie second rounder this season, traded for a first in 2012 ).

I really don't think there will be a two-round premium for picks traded into next year. If that were true, then I would expect Bill to trade both of his 3rd round picks for 1st round picks next year. And his 4th for a 2nd. And his 5th for a 3rd.

 

[fester]

It will not happen. The price for #28 is a fourth rounder this year and first round selection in 2012 ( Joe Stanley trade ).
However , I can see trading # 17 selection this year for a second round pick and first round choice in 2012 .
Jake Locker is a Redskin for # 41 & 1 rounder in 2012 . Go ahead and mortgage your future Dan Snyder.

Strongly disagree. Yes, the Staley trade is a relevant comp, but it is not the only comparison trade. The 2007 draft, from the Patriots' persepctive was monumentally weak, so the Pats were wililng to trade out at severe discounts compared to normal trades. A typical trade is a mid-2nd and a mid-3rd for #28, or a future year 1st + a current 3rd.

 

[DW Toys]

I have to disagree. The league has warned teams to "trade for 2012 draft picks at your own risk". With the courts involved, the NFL is recognizing the remote possibility that the courts could throw out the draft in future years.
It is my understanding, due to this uncertainty, that a third round pick in the 2011 draft has the approximate value of a 1st rounder in 2012. Normally there is only a one round premium ( ie second rounder this season, traded for a first in 2012 ).

Magnificent observation Cousiin Crowell!!!! Yet some are adamant that we will Trade away this years value picks with the "definite maybe" that the Draft as we know will survive after 2011. I definitely think BB is going to consider that a possibility this year. If the NFL players win and Kessler gets what he is seeking of no Draft and unencumbered free agent movement to the highest bidder, even if they put some type of method in, it will not be the same. Although I am siding more with the owners, the way the courts are liberalized to this type of labor play, I don't know if I am BB if I gamble with this hand grenade.

Keep your picks (unless you trade within this years class) and collect what you can get on what could be the last NFL Draft and call it a day. You might be a fool to trade into 2012.

The pure fact of no Free Agency period will have a major impact on this Draft. Teams that say 'I don't want to move up in the Draft to get that need because I took care of it in the FA period last month", now dare not gamble that there might actually be a FA period so they saddle up and do more study on each and every position of need. I guarantee there has been more study and scab picking on each and every Draftee than ever before.

In fact this year, the old B.S. Story of Draft the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE, won't happen. You Draft for need in 2011 Cousins!

I think it will be more intriguing to watch how BB handles that scenario rather than trade down every year for quantity rather than quality.

Now he makes a statement that perhaps intimates the end is near for the constant down trading Pats game and lets turn in our chips. The lack of CBA might dictate this. He says;
”Belichick added that there are plenty of good players on the board and the goal is “sooner or later [to] convert those into productive players. That’s really our goal, to take those three days and improve our football team and get better football players on the team. Hopefully we’ll be able to do that.”

All I know is that it has been a boring off season with no FA and moves that abound. We can look at mochs only so many times. The Draftees are bouncing all over the board every day like yoyos and than they do a two hour special tonight on the high profile match ups on the spanking new 2011 schedule when there might not be one? Talk about a yawner! Are they for real? This is a dead, no one cares issue. Let's call Dr. Frankenstein. He'll get better results.

DW Toys

 

[dryheat44]

What you're saying is correct in the legal sense. There can be no draft unless agreed to in a collective bargaining agreement. However, the converse is also true: without a draft, there will be no new CBA. The owners would never agree to that.

Agreed. So we're still CBA-less. Then what happens? Either football is played without a CBA, or it's not played. In the practical sense, sure, the league and players would come to an agreement about the draft issue before the games would start again. But if things got nasty, the players could ask Congress to re-examine the NFLs Anti-Trust Exemption...after all, the league's usual position in A-T matters is that they're 32 separate businesses. If that's the case, a draft would amount to collusion.

Since such a maneuver would likely reduce the amount of teams in the NFL, and therefore the amount of available jobs, it probably wouldn't happen. But we're assuming rational actions.

 

[captain stone]

Just an observation on the "draft chart" First there are many versions. Secondly it seems people take the values too seriously, like they were law. They are JUST one person's ESTIMATION of GENERAL value. The value of a pick is what one team places on it. Not some arbitrary piece of paper.

Even if it is HIGHLY unlikely that the draft will become obsolete in the next CBA, it STILL should mean that anyone willing to risk it, should get a premium for that risk. Just like having the #33 pick has some associated value....because its the first pick of a new day, it SHOULD carry an additional premium for teams that absolutely NEED to move up.

In other words, just because the "draft chart" says "this is the value", it doesn't mean it is.

Eggs-actly, Batman.

As baseball players love to say, the value of a player (in this case, draft pick) is whatever another team
is willing to pay for it.

Screw the stupid value chart. Bill should have enough suitors for #33 at the beginning of the 2nd round,
that #41 + 2012's 1st-rounder is the Minimum he should accept.
I would hold out for #41 + a swap of 3rds this year + their 4th this year.

 

[captain stone]

Magnificent observation Cousiin Crowell!!!! Yet some are adamant that we will Trade away this years value picks with the "definite maybe" that the Draft as we know will survive after 2011. I definitely think BB is going to consider that a possibility this year. If the NFL players win and Kessler gets what he is seeking of no Draft and unencumbered free agent movement to the highest bidder, even if they put some type of method in, it will not be the same. Although I am siding more with the owners, the way the courts are liberalized to this type of labor play, I don't know if I am BB if I gamble with this hand grenade.

Keep your picks (unless you trade within this years class) and collect what you can get on what could be the last NFL Draft and call it a day. You might be a fool to trade into 2012.

The pure fact of no Free Agency period will have a major impact on this Draft. Teams that say 'I don't want to move up in the Draft to get that need because I took care of it in the FA period last month", now dare not gamble that there might actually be a FA period so they saddle up and do more study on each and every position of need. I guarantee there has been more study and scab picking on each and every Draftee than ever before.

In fact this year, the old B.S. Story of Draft the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE, won't happen. You Draft for need in 2011 Cousins!

I think it will be more intriguing to watch how BB handles that scenario rather than trade down every year for quantity rather than quality.

Now he makes a statement that perhaps intimates the end is near for the constant down trading Pats game and lets turn in our chips. The lack of CBA might dictate this. He says;
”Belichick added that there are plenty of good players on the board and the goal is “sooner or later [to] convert those into productive players. That’s really our goal, to take those three days and improve our football team and get better football players on the team. Hopefully we’ll be able to do that.”

All I know is that it has been a boring off season with no FA and moves that abound. We can look at mochs only so many times. The Draftees are bouncing all over the board every day like yoyos and than they do a two hour special tonight on the high profile match ups on the spanking new 2011 schedule when there might not be one? Talk about a yawner! Are they for real? This is a dead, no one cares issue. Let's call Dr. Frankenstein. He'll get better results.

DW Toys

Very well-said, Cousin.

To paraphrase Frank Galvin in The Verdict, This is the draft...there is no other draft, this is the draft...

 

[Off The Grid]

Screw the stupid value chart.

I have observed that those who pen phrases like "Screw the stupid Value Chart" invariably display a complete lack of understanding of its purpose.

It's very creators intended it only as a "ballpark" measurement, as, quite clearly, do I.

But anyone thinking that the RedSkins are gonna pony up #41 AND their 2012 1st Rounder for #28...is on CRACK.

So sorry if that puts you in a TWIST.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I have observed that those who pen phrases like "Screw the stupid Value Chart" invariably display a complete lack of understanding of its purpose.

It's very creators intended it only as a "ballpark" measurement, as, quite clearly, do I.

But anyone thinking that the RedSkins are gonna pony up #41 AND their 2012 1st Rounder for #28...is on CRACK.

So sorry if that puts you in a TWIST.

Ok, so it's just supposed to be a ballpark yet someone's on crack if they're not in that ballpark? When dealing with players, whose value can be very relative, and coaches, who might be going all in an attempt to feep their jobs after this season, you8 could very well have a deal which doesnt conform to the draft chart value, I'm still shocked that Chicago gave what they did for Jay Cutler but it happened.

Long story short, cars have been sold for less and more than their KBB value indicates, it's no different with football players.

 

[Off The Grid]

I have observed that those who pen phrases like "Screw the stupid Value Chart" invariably display a complete lack of understanding of its purpose.

It's very creators intended it only as a "ballpark" measurement, as, quite clearly, do I.

But anyone thinking that the RedSkins are gonna pony up #41 AND their 2012 1st Rounder for #28...is on CRACK.

So sorry if that puts you in a TWIST.

Ok, so it's just supposed to be a ballpark yet someone's on crack if they're not in that ballpark?

Um...yeah.

I don't know why you're confused about that.

#28 for #41 and the RedSkin 2012 1st Rounder is 660 Points for 990 Points.

That's INSANE.

And to point out what should be painfully obvious: Those are draft picks, not players.

Ergo: Your Jay Cutler correlation has no bearing whatsoever.

Some stupid people have done some stupid things for Top 5 Picks.

Not for #28, pal. You're dreaming.

Again: Even Dan Snyder isn't that goofy.

 

[Snake Eyes]

And to point out what should be painfully obvious: Those are draft picks, not players.

Ergo: Your Jay Cutler correlation has no bearing whatsoever.

Some stupid people have done some stupid things for Top 5 Picks.

Picks are only valued BECAUSE they're used to get players, it's like money having value because you can buy stuff with it.

I thought the Cutler trade was crazy but it seemed to make sense to Chicago, IF the Redskins are desperate enough, or smoking enough crack, I think we should do our best to hand them the pipe.