Realistic Draft Class for New England (Is Ninkovich really the answer)

[tricktak]

Pick #17- Mark Ingram, RB: He's the best player available and I just get the feeling the Patriots really covet Ingram and he's the best value pick for the Patriots at 17 for a guy who has the talent to be a top 5 pick.

Pick #28- Mike Pouncey, G: Pouncey could be gone to the Giants before the Patriots pick but I have the Giants picking Anthony Castonzo instead. If Pouncey is here, then like Ingram, I just don't see the Patriots passing on the best guard in this draft. If Pouncey is gone before this pick, I see them trading down. I don't see them trading the pick if Pouncey is still here.

Pick #33- Kenrick Ellis, DT: I see the Patriots trading down here with a team looking for a QB but I still have them taking Ellis wherever they pick in the second round. Some teams will be scared of by Ellis' character concerns, the Patriots will not. Ellis has first round talent and is just a physical specimen, Haloti Ngata type defensive lineman. He can play anywhere on this Defensive Line and I see the Patriots all over him in the second.

Pick #60- I have them trading this pick away for an additional 4th rounder.

Pick #74- James Carpenter, OT: This would be a very good pick for the Patriots. One way or another they're going to take an OT in this draft. James Carpenter from Alabama is a very solid option here. He can play on the left or right depending on where they want to put Vollmer. They need to just let Matt Light go, I see him miss to many blocks and gets overpowered too often.

Pick #92- Ricky Elmore, DE/LB: Rob Ninkovich could be the second coming of Mike Vrabel. Like Ninkovich, Vrabel didn't really start producing til his age 26/27 season. Maybe they give Ninkovich another year to improve from his productive season and become a staple in the linebacker corps. I still see them though taking a linebacker fairly early, preferably a pass rushing specialist. Banta-Cain couldn't get it done last year and Moore is a question mark. Elmore would be a great fit for the Patriots who was much more productive than the other linebacker getting all the attention from Arizona, Brooks Reed. Elmore has the size to be a linebacker in the patriots 3-4 and was a very productive pass rusher at Arizona, racking up 21 sacks in two years.

Pick #125- Jaiquawn Jarrett, S: Jarrett is just too good of a player to pass up here. Even if Meriweather is still here, they could always use more talent and depth at safety.

Additional fourth rounder- Brandon Fusco, G: With Mankins future up in the air and Connelly a mediocre at best guard on the other side, I see them taking at least two interior linemen in this draft and Fusco is a guy they've been looking at heavily.

Pick #159- Chris Matthews, WR: I don't see them taking a wide receiver early this year which is way Chris Matthews makes perfect sense here. Let Taylor Price and Brandon Tate develop again this year and see what they can do. Matthews at 6'5" 219 lbs. is another option they can have if either of those two can't get it done.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

Pick #17- Mark Ingram, RB: He's the best player available and I just get the feeling the Patriots really covet Ingram and he's the best value pick for the Patriots at 17 for a guy who has the talent to be a top 5 pick.

Pick #28- Mike Pouncey, G: Pouncey could be gone to the Giants before the Patriots pick but I have the Giants picking Anthony Castonzo instead. If Pouncey is here, then like Ingram, I just don't see the Patriots passing on the best guard in this draft. If Pouncey is gone before this pick, I see them trading down. I don't see them trading the pick if Pouncey is still here.

Pick #33- Kenrick Ellis, DT: I see the Patriots trading down here with a team looking for a QB but I still have them taking Ellis wherever they pick in the second round. Some teams will be scared of by Ellis' character concerns, the Patriots will not. Ellis has first round talent and is just a physical specimen, Haloti Ngata type defensive lineman. He can play anywhere on this Defensive Line and I see the Patriots all over him in the second.

Pick #60- I have them trading this pick away for an additional 4th rounder.

Pick #74- James Carpenter, OT: This would be a very good pick for the Patriots. One way or another they're going to take an OT in this draft. James Carpenter from Alabama is a very solid option here. He can play on the left or right depending on where they want to put Vollmer. They need to just let Matt Light go, I see him miss to many blocks and gets overpowered too often.

Pick #92- Ricky Elmore, DE/LB: Rob Ninkovich could be the second coming of Mike Vrabel. Like Ninkovich, Vrabel didn't really start producing til his age 26/27 season. Maybe they give Ninkovich another year to improve from his productive season and become a staple in the linebacker corps. I still see them though taking a linebacker fairly early, preferably a pass rushing specialist. Banta-Cain couldn't get it done last year and Moore is a question mark. Elmore would be a great fit for the Patriots who was much more productive than the other linebacker getting all the attention from Arizona, Brooks Reed. Elmore has the size to be a linebacker in the patriots 3-4 and was a very productive pass rusher at Arizona, racking up 21 sacks in two years.

Pick #125- Jaiquawn Jarrett, S: Jarrett is just too good of a player to pass up here. Even if Meriweather is still here, they could always use more talent and depth at safety.

Additional fourth rounder- Brandon Fusco, G: With Mankins future up in the air and Connelly a mediocre at best guard on the other side, I see them taking at least two interior linemen in this draft and Fusco is a guy they've been looking at heavily.

Pick #159- Chris Matthews, WR: I don't see them taking a wide receiver early this year which is way Chris Matthews makes perfect sense here. Let Taylor Price and Brandon Tate develop again this year and see what they can do. Matthews at 6'5" 219 lbs. is another option they can have if either of those two can't get it done.

Genius move trading a second rounder straight up for an "additional" fourth rounder and nothing else.

 

[jukes]

Ninkovich made plays, i think the issue is not so the linebackers its just finding the heir to seymoure

 

[tricktak]

Genius move trading a second rounder straight up for an "additional" fourth rounder and nothing else.

I said additional because they already have a fourth round pick, they could probably get more than just the fourth round pick but it's just a rough estimate of what they can get, don't take it so literal, they'll proably trade either pick 28 or one of their two second round picks. They don't really need an additional third rounder, they already have a couple of picks there. So why don't you think and actually read a little bit before you sit down at you're little computer and share your half a cent.

 

[Defsoul]

Not a big fan of your Mock Draft. Ellis and Elmore seem like major reaches to me. I have Ellis ranked early third round and Elmore late fith round. And as Aimrchair Quarterback noted, your trade makes absolutely no sense if they give up a second round pick and only get a fourth round pick in return. Throw in a 2012 second round pick and this trade would make some sense.

 

[tricktak]

Not a big fan of your Mock Draft. Ellis and Elmore seem like major reaches to me. I have Ellis ranked early third round and Elmore late fith round. And as Aimrchair Quarterback noted, your trade makes absolutely no sense if they give up a second round pick and only get a fourth round pick in return. Throw in a 2012 second round pick and this trade would make some sense.

Spikes was a major reach and so was McCourty who they could've gotten in the second. As long as the players become productive and the Patriots believe they can contribute they'll reach for players, it's nothing new. You don't have to be a fan of my draft, not many people were fans of the last Patriots draft class and it turned into probably they're best class yet. Whether you're a fan of it or not, I don't really care and If you actually read what I typed above, the fourth round pick is just a rough estimate of what they can get, they can probably get more. PAY ATTENTION LOSER.

 

[Off The Grid]

Pick #60- I have them trading this pick away for an additional 4th rounder.

Genius move trading a second rounder straight up for an "additional" fourth rounder and nothing else.

And as Armchair Quarterback noted, your trade makes absolutely no sense if they give up a second round pick and only get a fourth round pick in return. Throw in a 2012 second round pick and this trade would make some sense.

Whether you're a fan of it or not, I don't really care and If you actually read what I typed above, the fourth round pick is just a rough estimate of what they can get, they can probably get more.

PAY ATTENTION LOSER.

What the HELL???

Pick #60- I have them trading this pick away for an additional 4th rounder.

Is anybody ELSE having a Bill Lee for Stan Papi flashback with this one??

 

[alphilip77]

Spikes was a major reach and so was McCourty who they could've gotten in the second. As long as the players become productive and the Patriots believe they can contribute they'll reach for players, it's nothing new. You don't have to be a fan of my draft, not many people were fans of the last Patriots draft class and it turned into probably they're best class yet. Whether you're a fan of it or not, I don't really care and If you actually read what I typed above, the fourth round pick is just a rough estimate of what they can get, they can probably get more. PAY ATTENTION LOSER.

What the hell gives you the right to call someone a name when they're just pointing something out? And if you really didn't care what people thought about you're "realistic" draft, why the hell are you responding to every post that even remotely questions you're draft? Think before you type holmes.

 

[Dufflebagz]

The only pick I like is Pouncey and to be honest I'm not crazy about him.

With Ellis you are reaching by more than a round.

The trade makes absolutely no sense, even if you're just making a "rough estimate" it's not close to what we could get.

I can live with Carpenter.

You drafted Elmore 1-2 rounds early.

Jarrett over Sands.....really? I guess that's just completely a personal opinion though.

Fusco is tough to judge, it seems like he can go anywhere from 4-7....possibly UFA. Slim chance Moffitt might be on the board too.

I like Matthew's size but your are reaching WAY too far. He looks like he'll be a UFA. How about DeAndre Brown? Similar size with a lot of talent but will be available this late because he broke his leg and lost some speed. He had a very productive season coming off a broken leg though.

 

[Defsoul]

Spikes was a major reach and so was McCourty who they could've gotten in the second.

McCourty a major reach? Are you kidding me? He was ranked as a early first, late second round pick by most experts. Not many expected the Patriots to pick a cornerback, but was he a major reach? No...

Whether you're a fan of it or not, I don't really care and If you actually read what I typed above, the fourth round pick is just a rough estimate of what they can get, they can probably get more.

Well, if that's your estimation, than either your estimation sucks or your just too lazy to come up with a decent trade idea.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

I said additional because they already have a fourth round pick, they could probably get more than just the fourth round pick but it's just a rough estimate of what they can get, don't take it so literal, they'll proably trade either pick 28 or one of their two second round picks. They don't really need an additional third rounder, they already have a couple of picks there. So why don't you think and actually read a little bit before you sit down at you're little computer and share your half a cent.

You're proposing trading a 2nd round pick for a 4th round pick straight up and you're telling me to think? What purpose would that trade serve?

 

[Sciz]

It was widely believed that the Jets were ready to take McCourty if he was available. Them taking Wilson supports that point. Hard to call a guy a reach when he would have gone two picks later otherwise.

 

[DaBruinz]

Spikes was a major reach and so was McCourty who they could've gotten in the second. As long as the players become productive and the Patriots believe they can contribute they'll reach for players, it's nothing new. You don't have to be a fan of my draft, not many people were fans of the last Patriots draft class and it turned into probably they're best class yet. Whether you're a fan of it or not, I don't really care and If you actually read what I typed above, the fourth round pick is just a rough estimate of what they can get, they can probably get more. PAY ATTENTION LOSER.

McCourty wasn't a reach in the 1st round last year. McCourty was rated as a late 1st early 2nd. And Spikes wasn't a major reach. You clearly are going by some self-contrived information and not by any real draft projections.

You should not go around calling people losers for questioning your trade of a 2nd round pick for ONLY a 4th. You don't mention the Pats getting anything else. Maybe if you had, you wouldn't have gotten the reaction you did.

The idea of the Pats drafting a guy like Ingram at 17 really isn't realistic. First, he doesn't offer VALUE. He's a guy who is plagued by fumbling issues and doesn't have that 2nd gear. So, he's really not much better than what the pats have. Certainly not worth a 1st rounder to them.

The Pats grabbing Kendrick Ellis at 33 isn't realistic because the realistic move would be to trade down from there. Especially if the choice is to over-reach for a NT project to sit behind Wilfork. Not to mention that the VALUE is horrible.

Carpenter for the RT might be a move.. But I think that better options would have been had with previous picks that you butchered.

What is it about Elmore that makes you think he can fill in at 3-4 OLB?? He's not stout against the run. He didn't play well against top competition. And he's got an inconsistent jump off the line of scrimmage.

Jarrett- With the Pats having Sanders, Chung, Meriweather, Brown, Barrett, and Page, what do you think would entice the Pats to add Jarrett to an already loaded Safety position.

Mathews - Your attitude of "lets add a WR for the sake of addin one" doesn't make a whole helluva lot of sense. Especially not a guy who rounds out his routes as much as Mathews does.

You're draft, beyond Pouncey, makes Matt Millen look to be a success.

 

[Sciz]

As for the whole Ninkovich question... I do think he'll be a starter next season, across from Cunningham. There just aren't many good options at OLB, and I think Bill would rather have Watt and no OLB high than ASmith and Wilkerson, for example.

 

[Off The Grid]

As for the whole Ninkovich question... I do think he'll be a starter next season, across from Cunningham. There just aren't many good options at OLB, and I think Bill would rather have Watt and no OLB high than ASmith and Wilkerson, for example.

As would I. Good points.

I'm increasingly intrigued by Brother Maine's theme, regarding the parallels between the careers of Mike Vrabel and Rob Ninkovich.

Ninkovich increasingly strikes me as an ~ increasingly ~ effective Blue Collar guy who does him home work, works his @$$ off, and will, in the end, turn every last one of us into fans...Very much in the mold of Troy Brown, Teddy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Lawyer Milloy, and, of course Tom Brady. Furthermore, he is a clearly instinctive guy, with excellent diagnostic skills, who I believe ~ even while consistently and reliably sticking to his assignments ~ is going to be making a LOT of big plays for us in the future.

There are a lot of guys on that D from whom we have good reason ~ due to their talents, their work ethics, and the effect that a full year's experience, playing full time in the system, show us is historically very beneficial ~ to expect a BIG jump in Impact, next year:

Ron Brace.

Brandon Deaderick.

Jermaine Cunningham.

Rob Ninkovich.

Brandon Spikes.

Devon McCourty.

Darius Butler.

Pretty exciting stuff, if you ask me.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Plays well with others ?

 

[manxman2601]

The idea of the Pats drafting a guy like Ingram at 17 really isn't realistic. First, he doesn't offer VALUE. He's a guy who is plagued by fumbling issues and doesn't have that 2nd gear. So, he's really not much better than what the pats have. Certainly not worth a 1st rounder to them.

The Pats grabbing Kendrick Ellis at 33 isn't realistic because the realistic move would be to trade down from there.

Ermmm...

Am I the only one who quite likes this draft (at least the first round).

Ingram is not a reach at #17. Of those available to the Pats at this point, Ingram is probably the most pro ready player available (aside from Pouncey who gets picked at #28). Pouncey is the best interior lineman available in the draft and can play two positions as long as he sorts out his snapping. I think tricktack has hit on two things with his first round choices. firstly, if BB is spending first round picks on people, he wants them to make significant contributions in year one. Secondly, the Pats need draft choices that make them improve significantly. Pouncey and Ingram fulfill those criteria. loyalty aside, Ingram would be a significant upgrade over BJGE and Pouncey would most likely be an upgrade over Connelly or whichever JAG is used to replace Mankins.

As for Ellis, I don't know enough about him. I'm concerned that some are excited by a character flawed 346lb small school DT who probably hasn't faced too much in the way of NFL projected linemen. But if the experts think he'll be a good player, then I'll bow to that greater knowledge. But I don't think it's all that unreasonable to pick him at #33. There are three teams picking in the 2nd round who could well be targeting a NT (Texans, Chiefs, Redskins). If Ellis is BB's man, he'll take him rather than let him go to other teams.

Obviously the trade wasn't very well explained or researched and a better job could have been done with the rest of the picks, but the question any fan should apply to a Patriot draft is, Does the draft make the Patriot team a better one? I say Ingram/Pouncey says it does.

 

[Dufflebagz]

but the question any fan should apply to a Patriot draft is, Does the draft make the Patriot team a better one? I say Ingram/Pouncey says it does.

Any draft will make the team better....at the very least it will add depth.

If he didn't reach so high, he could've got more talent AND the player he wanted....poorly executed mock.

 

[manxman2601]

Yes.

Yes, you are.

Trading #33 for a 4th Rounder is ~ in most circles ~ generally considered not advisable.

And that was just the BEGINNING of the problems with this Draft.

I did actually reference the fact that the trade wasn't well thought out or explained.

Uh, no offense, but you are dead on 100% WRONG.

How could ANY exercise that adds players without subtracting any do anything BUT make the team better??

In 2009, the Carolina Panthers went 8-8. Then they had a draft and then went 1-15. The exercise in adding players did in fact do something but make the team better.

Each Mock must be judged on its own merits.

....or lack, thereof.

True. And I think adding an upgrade at running back that eases the workload of our aging and increasingly injury susceptible QB who has performed poorly in the playoffs recently, possibly through fatigue and adding the best offensive lineman in the draft to fill the one gaping hole this team likely will have means that this draft has merit. I know you are an advocate of trading down and I know you are a keen student of the benefits of such, so I ask, which lower round jags improve the team more than Pouncey and Ingram? And I'm asking that respectfully just in case I sound offish which isn't intended.

 

[Off The Grid]

...the question any fan should apply to a Patriot draft is, Does the draft make the Patriot team a better one?

Uh, no offense, but you are dead on 100% WRONG.

How could ANY exercise that adds players without subtracting any do anything BUT make the team better??

Each Mock must be judged on its own merits.

....or lack, thereof.

In 2009, the Carolina Panthers went 8-8. Then they had a draft and then went 1-15. The exercise in adding players did in fact do something but make the team better.

You're kidding, right??

The Panthers traded NOTHING, got 10 ~ TEN ~ players back ~ that IS how Drafts work, now!! ~ And you're still defending the position that, somehow, adding TEN players for NOTHING was detrimental to the team?? Good luck with THAT!!