NFL Lockout has begun

[Triumph]

Is it a lockout or a players strike? Or does it just depend on who's point of view you are looking at?

Lock out

The players can only strike if they are in a union.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

well if this thing drags into june, count on missing some games... there will be some football all be it a shabby product of it.. the draft is a joke this year, yeah we have all these picks, but there is no rookie mini camp , there is no training camp, you cant trade players .. its a shame that it has come to this, shame on both parties, but i put the blame squarly on the owners who backed out of this deal, a deal that was voted 30-2, in 06, demauice smith is not no great leader, but the owners are treating the players like objects....

 

[patsinthesnow]

One thing I don't get is ESPN is spinning it as the 2011 season is toast. Isn't this false?

Sure, free agency, the draft, rookie minicamps, minicamps, and some of training camp could be compromised.

But based on what I'm reading here the court will rule one of the sides correct, so there will be football in some form. The only thing that matters is which side "wins" this stupid battle?

There is 6 months until opening day, I'm pretty sure this will be settled by then.

 

[Wolfpack]

dose this mean there will be no NFL draft. and if there is one i heard someone say that you cant trade you have to stay at your spot and pick is that true ?

There will be a draft this year since that was stipulated in the prior CBA. The ability to trade players will depend on if the lockout is invalidated or not.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

One thing I don't get is ESPN is spinning it as the 2011 season is toast. Isn't this false?

Sure, free agency, the draft, rookie minicamps, minicamps, and some of training camp could be compromised.

But based on what I'm reading here the court will rule one of the sides correct, so there will be football in some form. The only thing that matters is which side "wins" this stupid battle?

There is 6 months until opening day, I'm pretty sure this will be settled by then.

It may well be settled as in settlement by then. But the courts won't ultimately necessarily rule against a lockout even if the first judge up does... The league would immediately then appeal to the 8th circuit court (a 3 judge appeals panel) and could continue on to the Supreme Court. And while sides can request expedited hearings those aren't always granted. The courts actually have more important business to deal with in the grander scheme of things, not to mention some history of not choosing to inject themselves into collective bargaining disputes.

In 1987 we went down this road and the courts didn't ever get it all hashed out pending appeals until 1993 - at which time after a jury trial resulted in a verdict in favor of free agency, the two sides decided to reach a settlement agreement to end all the litigation. That settlement overseen by Doty did, however, still include things like restricted FA and transition and franchise tags... The league chose to play through the court proceedings at that time (under their own rules) but many owners today feel that was their first mistake because it allowed the players to trudge on through the courts at all because they were getting paid even as they sued them. And as a result they got an agreement they could live with although they also got stuck with Doty as an overseer until that CBA ended. Decertification yesterday was in part an attempt on the unions part to retain Doty into infinity. If the decertification tactic is ultimately ruled invalid by the NLRB or a higher court, Doty is gone. Different courts tend to have different leanings...

 

[patsinthesnow]

It may well be settled as in settlement by then. But the courts won't ultimately necessarily rule against a lockout even if the first judge up does... The league would immediately then appeal to the 8th circuit court (a 3 judge appeals panel) and could continue on to the Supreme Court. And while sides can request expedited hearings those aren't always granted. The courts actually have more important business to deal with in the grander scheme of things, not to mention some history of not choosing to inject themselves into collective bargaining disputes.

In 1987 we went down this road and the courts didn't ever get it all hashed out pending appeals until 1993 - at which time after a jury trial resulted in a verdict in favor of free agency, the two sides decided to reach a settlement agreement to end all the litigation. That settlement overseen by Doty did, however, still include things like restricted FA and transition and franchise tags... The league chose to play through the court proceedings at that time (under their own rules) but many owners today feel that was their first mistake because it allowed the players to trudge on through the courts at all because they were getting paid even as they sued them. And as a result they got an agreement they could live with although they also got stuck with Doty as an overseer until that CBA ended. Decertification yesterday was in part an attempt on the unions part to retain Doty into infinity. If the decertification tactic is ultimately ruled invalid by the NLRB or a higher court, Doty is gone. Different courts tend to have different leanings...

Thanks for the info and help. That is nuts...

Would you know how long it would take for the appeal to reach the 8th circuit court?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Thanks for the info and help. That is nuts...

Would you know how long it would take for the appeal to reach the 8th circuit court?

At least a couple of months I'd expect, although it may never get that far because the union chose to decertify BEFORE the CBA expired and that provides for the league to employ the sham defense per the CBA:

Article LVII, Section 3(b) of the CBA, which states as follows: “The Parties agree that, after the expiration of the express term of this Agreement, in the event that at that time or any time thereafter a majority of players indicate that they wish to end the collective bargaining status of the NFLPA on or after expiration of this Agreement, the NFL and its Clubs and their respective heirs, executors, administrators, representatives, agents, successors and assigns waive any rights they may have to assert any antitrust labor exemption defense based upon any claim that the termination by the NFLPA of its status as a collective bargaining representative is Article LVII, Mutual Reservation of Rights: Labor Exemption or would be a sham, pretext, ineffective, requires additional steps, or has not in fact occurred.”

That being the case, an injunction against the lockout should not be granted.

 

[Ring 6]

At least a couple of months I'd expect, although it may never get that far because the union chose to decertify BEFORE the CBA expired and that provides for the league to employ the sham defense per the CBA:

Article LVII, Section 3(b) of the CBA, which states as follows: “The Parties agree that, after the expiration of the express term of this Agreement, in the event that at that time or any time thereafter a majority of players indicate that they wish to end the collective bargaining status of the NFLPA on or after expiration of this Agreement, the NFL and its Clubs and their respective heirs, executors, administrators, representatives, agents, successors and assigns waive any rights they may have to assert any antitrust labor exemption defense based upon any claim that the termination by the NFLPA of its status as a collective bargaining representative is Article LVII, Mutual Reservation of Rights: Labor Exemption or would be a sham, pretext, ineffective, requires additional steps, or has not in fact occurred.”

That being the case, an injunction against the lockout should not be granted.

There is a spot in the lawsuit that conflicts with this and states something to the effect on "at or near" the end.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

There is a spot in the lawsuit that conflicts with this and states something to the effect on "at or near" the end.

It doesn't matter what the lawsuit contends. It's what the CBA stipulates. The case has now been re-assigned from the initial judge, and it didn't go to Doty, either. Went to a former law clerk for Antonin Scalia...

 

[IllegalContact]

It doesn't matter what the lawsuit contends. It's what the CBA stipulates. The case has now been re-assigned from the initial judge, and it didn't go to Doty, either. Went to a former law clerk for Antonin Scalia...

there is no CBA to stipulate. and now there is no union. but there are several hundred players under contract to NFL teams. will the pats honor Tom Brady's contract, or will a court deem a breach of contract on the part of the team, require payment of all guarantees, and then deem the contract null and void.......could happen.......the whole league could be starting from scratch.......

 

[Nikolai]

there is no CBA to stipulate. and now there is no union. but there are several hundred players under contract to NFL teams. will the pats honor Tom Brady's contract, or will a court deem a breach of contract on the part of the team, require payment of all guarantees, and then deem the contract null and void.......could happen.......the whole league could be starting from scratch.......

I very much doubt that will happen.

 

[Wolfpack]

there is no CBA to stipulate. and now there is no union. but there are several hundred players under contract to NFL teams. will the pats honor Tom Brady's contract, or will a court deem a breach of contract on the part of the team, require payment of all guarantees, and then deem the contract null and void.......could happen.......the whole league could be starting from scratch.......

That scenario is not really in the realm of possibility. If the lockout is nullified, teams will be paying the players they want to keep. Now, a lot of the mediocre players not under contract may suffer, but the superstars aren't going anywhere.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

there is no CBA to stipulate. and now there is no union. but there are several hundred players under contract to NFL teams. will the pats honor Tom Brady's contract, or will a court deem a breach of contract on the part of the team, require payment of all guarantees, and then deem the contract null and void.......could happen.......the whole league could be starting from scratch.......

There was a CBA to stipulate when the lawsuit was filed and when the union decertified Friday afternoon...that's the timing problem. They needed to wait until the CBA expired before they took action - only they didn't want to because the CBA also stipulated that wait would entail 6 months and end Judge Doty's automatic oversight... You see, locking out workers is a recognized option for entities negotiating with a union once the existing agreement expires. As for player contracts, they toll during a lockout or strike or even if a player quits or retires or holds out. That's why Tiki is still the Giants property until they decide to release him from his former contract that has tolled during his retirement. Current contracts are frozen in time until the work stoppage ends. So if there is no season in 2011, and then they reach an agreement in 2012 and resume play, those contracts resume for as many seasons as are left on them not counting the lost season. The contracts are actually for seasons, not years or periods of time as the rest of us measure them...

 

[Ring 6]

It doesn't matter what the lawsuit contends. It's what the CBA stipulates. The case has now been re-assigned from the initial judge, and it didn't go to Doty, either. Went to a former law clerk for Antonin Scalia...

I know that typing it in a lawsuit doesnt matter, but I am saying they CITED something that conflicts. Clearly they didnt just make it up, it was part of the last case.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Like anything this isn't so cut and dried. The 'sham' language sounds kinda off to me. I'm not sure if it's enforceable. And even if it is there will be wrangling over how it should be interpreted. There's gonna be a lot of litigating either way. As a fan I'd wish for it to be done sooner rather than later but who knows how long it will ultimately drag out before both sides can see eye to eye. It's going to the courts now.

*shrugs* So is anyone tuning out football for now until this gets done?