Tomorrow begins Tag You're It time

[fair catch fryar]

I'm not sure what you're talking about...

I guess I'm confused what you're saying about the RFA and the original offer the Pats made. I thought you were talking about what Mankins could get as an unrestricted free agent as opposed to the deal the Pats offered and Mankins knowing that no matter what they could still tag him.

 

[fair catch fryar]

No. Not at all.

Im just saying that if you cannot reach an agreement with the man, trade him for what you can. Dont hold him hostage. He's been a great Patriot and more than lived up to his part.

Absolutely, but I don't think there are many players that BB would do this for. Besides the rumor/idea that Vrabel was thrown in as part of the Cassel deal to KC so he could still get the remainder of his contract rather than being cut, I can't think of any others.

 

[Deus Irae]

I guess I'm confused what you're saying about the RFA and the original offer the Pats made. I thought you were talking about what Mankins could get as an unrestricted free agent as opposed to the deal the Pats offered and Mankins knowing that no matter what they could still tag him.

No. The Patriots reportedly offered Mankins a deal that some reporters claimed would average $7M per season. That was apparently an incomplete report, and Bauer noted that the deal was only worth about $6.5M. That's because the deal required Mankins to accept the RFA year at the $3+M tender number, and to use the rest only as an extension, per Reiss. They did this after convincing him to hold off on contract talks the year before.

It was a kick to the balls, and the team had to know that.

 

[fair catch fryar]

No. The Patriots reportedly offered Mankins a deal that some reporters claimed would average $7M per season. That was apparently an incomplete report, and Bauer noted that the deal was only worth about $6.5M. That's because the deal required Mankins to accept the RFA year at the $3+M tender number, and to use the rest only as an extension, per Reiss. They did this after convincing him to hold off on contract talks the year before.

It was a kick to the balls, and the team had to know that.

I didn't know the specifics. Thanks for clarifying it.

 

[Deus Irae]

I didn't know the specifics. Thanks for clarifying it.

No problem. None of it's "official", but it's been reported widely and/or by reliable reporters, and it all jibes with what we've heard both sides say.

 

[mgteich]

Now, the patriots screwed Mankins so badly that he will get almost the same money for playing less than 1/2 of last year and all of 2011. He just needs to sign the franchise tag.

With regard to compensation, perhaps there is someone who will pay a top draft choice in order to be able to pay an all-pro guard $11M guaranteed for a one-year deal. There is indeed a sucker born every minute.

No. The Patriots reportedly offered Mankins a deal that some reporters claimed would average $7M per season. That was apparently an incomplete report, and Bauer noted that the deal was only worth about $6.5M. That's because the deal required Mankins to accept the RFA year at the $3+M tender number, and to use the rest only as an extension, per Reiss. They did this after convincing him to hold off on contract talks the year before.

It was a kick to the balls, and the team had to know that.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Like i said none of this really matters until the CBA is settled.. and with the news of the mtg that was scheduled today being canceled, these dummies really want to kill the golden goose...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I actually feel bad for the guy. The Pats have bent him over with no lube.

At some point, you have to pay the man. If you can reach terms agreeable for both sides, atleast trade him for what you can get. Mankins has more than paid his dues in the league. he deserves to get paid.

The only way for them to do that is to exercise their right to tag him to retain his rights and for him to facilitate a trade by signing said tag...

It's pretty clear they would prefer to retain him but at what price is the sticking point. That will also be the sticking point with any trading partner. There are 500 pending UFA waiting to hit the market. Half of them were RFA last season and none of them didn't end up having to honor their tender, either in full or reduced form. And despite what Deus and apparently Mankins believes those who got deals done had their tender folded into those new deals... There is an urban myth that in that case all a guy sees is his tender and his new deal doesn't "start" until the following year. Not true. They all see millions more in bonus money up front on top of the tender as part of the extension. What it does allow a team to do is spread the amortization out and effectively lower to AAV of the deal for cap purposes. Brady's new deal averaged $18M per for 4 years, but the remaining year made it a 5 year deal that averages $16.?M.

Oddly around here there is the perception that we are the only team that tries to do stuff like that... Woodly played for $550K last season. Where he was drafted he's made squat, about a third of what Mankins has made. He's about to get tagged and didn't get even the offer of an extension last year heading into the abyss...There are 500 guys who didn't get theirs and got bent over by their teams last season...all of whom were either told their team intended to take care of them in the uncapped year or they were totally blown off in the interim...Mankins thinks he's special I guess... It's kind of like when you only focus on this team missing tackles and blowing coverage and dropping passes and and getting stopped for a loss in the backfield and you think we're uniquely screwed... And the media tends to focus on it because they live to see impending doom within this teams ranks. It's all just the nature of the beast, the NFL...

All those teams that coddle their players and do early extensions and overpay to retain talent and persue all the high priced FA...exactly what has that netted them?? More Lombardi's than us???

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Now, the patriots screwed Mankins so badly that he will get almost the same money for playing less than 1/2 of last year and all of 2011. He just needs to sign the franchise tag.

With regard to compensation, perhaps there is someone who will pay a top draft choice in order to be able to pay an all-pro guard $11M guaranteed for a one-year deal. There is indeed a sucker born every minute.

Mg, you been around long enough to know that's not how it works so stop feeding myths. Any team that trades for him will sign him to a long term deal, just like KC did with Cassel...

 

[satz]

How come no one mentioned that the players union already has declared that tags are not valid?

anyway lets say the CBA goes back to similar rule and not the old one then Mankins will be a UFA.As UFA was 5yrs and when CBA was kicked out became 6yrs. If the new CBA goes back to 5yrs then mankins at 7th year will be UFA.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

No. The Patriots reportedly offered Mankins a deal that some reporters claimed would average $7M per season. That was apparently an incomplete report, and Bauer noted that the deal was only worth about $6.5M. That's because the deal required Mankins to accept the RFA year at the $3+M tender number, and to use the rest only as an extension, per Reiss. They did this after convincing him to hold off on contract talks the year before.

It was a kick to the balls, and the team had to know that.

No different than any extension they have ever done...Including Brady's... Smart teams don't just toss a year of existing eligibility and amortization out the door though fans persist in under valuing them and the tradeoffs teams make for them. Mankins was also reportedly offered upwards of $25M in guaranteed money in that deal which is actually more than Evans was offered on his 7 year deal that included his 2010 RFA tender as well... Jhari is scheduled to make $21.5M over the first 3 (2010-2012 - which against a $12M signing bonus you could make a case as being implicitly guaranteed although in fact it isn't) and it's all backloaded unguaranteed salary and roster bonuses thereafter...

5/5/2010: Signed a seven-year, $56.7 million contract. The deal included a $12 million signing bonus. 2011-2012: $3 million, 2013: $7.2 million, 2014-2015: $6.8 million (+ $500,000 roster bonuses), 2016: $8 million (+ $500,000 roster bonus), 2017: Free Agent

 

[MoLewisrocks]

How come no one mentioned that the players union already has declared that tags are not valid?

anyway lets say the CBA goes back to similar rule and not the old one then Mankins will be a UFA.As UFA was 5yrs and when CBA was kicked out became 6yrs. If the new CBA goes back to 5yrs then mankins at 7th year will be UFA.

Because it's a moot point even if they prevailed on that contention in court anyway and the NFLPA knows that. Nowhere for these players to go (or sign) absent a new CBA. And there will be franchise tags in any new CBA. The union itself even stated it's not opposed to them using the tags so much as it was in not being somehow consulted first... They aren't looking to eliminate them in any negotiations. They don't care because they only impact on average less than a dozen player a season. Not worth any tradeoff considering the owners are committed to retaining them. Read the Curren article linked in the first post.

 

[Mogamedogz]

The only way for them to do that is to exercise their right to tag him to retain his rights and for him to facilitate a trade by signing said tag...

Totally understand this. Im not suggesting that they NOT tag him. Im just saying that if neither sides position is going to change... may as well get what they can for him. Some team will be willing to part with a 4th or 5th for the rights to sign him.

All those teams that coddle their players and do early extensions and overpay to retain talent and persue all the high priced FA...exactly what has that netted them?? More Lombardi's than us???

Again, I am absolutely not suggesting that they overpay Mankins. Not at all. I just want them to cash out while they still can (if a deal can not be reached).

 

[mgteich]

Unless the team, the patriots and the players are all talking, this is a major risk for the team aquiring the player. Sure, if I acquired Mankins, I would expect to sign him long term. But, unless there were talks beforehand, I wouldn't give up much.

Cassell was not the norm. First, KC had a huge amount of cap room that they were very unlikely to use otherwise. Second, there was a new regime who wanted to make a statement by acquiring a quarterback. Finally, the player and the GM knew each other very, very well.

While I agree that franchisees will almost always sign long term contracts, I think that Mankins is in a position to bargain. After all, there is not much compensation for the patriots (if any) unless he signs and has a deal all but done with a new team.

Mankins gets to sign the franchise tag in July and wait. Of course, this makes so much sense for OG Mankins precisely because he's not worth $12M for one year, unlike a franchised QB, LT, NT or WR who might actually be worth the tag money.

Of course, we forget that the franchise tag takes the $11M of cap monies out of play for the patriots. Of course, this is not a real issue until the start of free agency, since Belichick's free agent and rookie budget will be more than $11M (even if Light is re-signed.

Mg, you been around long enough to know that's not how it works so stop feeding myths. Any team that trades for him will sign him to a long term deal, just like KC did with Cassel...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Here is Jason LaCanfora of NFLN's list of players his sources tell him will be tagged if they are not extended before the deadline:

Michael Vick, QB, Eagles: He will get franchised next week at the latest, according to a team source.

Peyton Manning, QB, Colts: He will get franchised without a new deal. The sides are exchanging proposals and making progress toward a long-term contract, according to league sources.

Vincent Jackson, WR, Chargers: He's expected to be franchised, according to league sources.

LaMarr Woodley, OLB, Steelers: We've been reporting since the March owners meetings that the sides would not agree on long-term deal. But team sources said he will be franchised, then they'll work out a new deal after a new CBA.

Haloti Ngata, DT, Ravens: He will be franchised, according to team and league sources, and Baltimore will work to lock him up as soon as a new CBA is reached.

Logan Mankins, G, Patriots: He's expected to be franchised, according to league sources.

Tamba Hali, OLB, Chiefs: Both sides have exchanged proposals since the Senior Bowl last month. He's expected to be franchised if they can't strike a deal, according to a league source.

David Harris, LB, Jets: New York plans to franchise him, according to a league source.

Marcedes Lewis, TE, Jaguars: Jacksonville is working on an extension. If they can't get it done in time, they are prepared to franchise him, according to a team source.

Zach Miller, TE, Raiders: He's expected to be franchised, according to a league source.

Ray Edwards, DE, Vikings: He will not be franchised. Instead Minnesota is considering WR Sidney Rice, according to league sources.

Aubrayo Franklin, DT, 49ers: Team officials have held internal discussions about franchising him for a second consecutive year, but they have not finalized a decision, according to league sources.

NFL.com news: Players who could be hit with the franchise tag

Oddly he does not have the Raiders tagging Seymour although many had assumed he would be. Either they are more concerned about losing Miller or the tag price is just prohibitive for Seymour at this stage of his career.

 

[Shelterdog]

Totally understand this. Im not suggesting that they NOT tag him. Im just saying that if neither sides position is going to change... may as well get what they can for him. Some team will be willing to part with a 4th or 5th for the rights to sign him.

You can't trade him until there's a new CBA.

 

[ivanvamp]

It's not like the Pats haven't tried to reach a fair deal. 5 years/ $35 million isn't exactly a slap in the face.

I wouldn't mind a job where a slap in the face is 11 million dollars.

 

[JackBauer]

Ray Edwards isn't getting franchised. Does this mean he'll be hitting FA?

 

[Mogamedogz]

You can't trade him until there's a new CBA.

I know that lol I didnt mean trade him tonight. lol

 

[Marqui]

Ray Edwards isn't getting franchised. Does this mean he'll be hitting FA?

Hopefully, at this point he seems like the only realistic option the Pats will have to get an upgrade at OLB/DE.