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The Worst Defense in the History of the World...

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So the fact that the Patriots defense is playing to a better or comparable level to veteran defenses with equally as many or more flaws despite carrying a better overall record and head to head wins holds no weight?

The amount of butthurt you've taken in this thread is at a diabolical level now.

All I am saying is that in the playoffs the offense could get shut down and not play as well has, and I do not think the defense is good enough to be able to carry the team to a win. They really have not proven that they can do that all season long. This is an average to a little above average defense, and it is getting a little too much praise.
 
All I am saying is that in the playoffs the offense could get shut down and not play as well has, and I do not think the defense is good enough to be able to carry the team to a win. They really have not proven that they can do that all season long. This is an average to a little above average defense, and it is getting a little too much praise.
Bulldust. The defense has proven that they can compliment and assist the offense and special teams. That is reflected by the 12-2 record the Patriots currently hold.

Keep digging your hole buddy. You'll be visiting PatJew in China at the rate you're going.
 
Bulldust. The defense has proven that they can compliment and assist the offense and special teams. That is reflected by the 12-2 record the Patriots currently hold.

Keep digging your hole buddy. You'll be visiting PatJew in China at the rate you're going.

Ugh, you are not getting anything. My point is that the defense can only complement the offense. What if the offense has a poor outing in a playoff game?,I believe that the defense can not win a game when facing a quality opponent (not a backup QB) if the offense struggles.
 
The title for this thread seems over the top. I mean, have you watched tape on how the 1941 Germans walked around the French? Now that had to be the worst defense in the history of the world!


"Worst line since the Maginot!"
 
Ugh, you are not getting anything. My point is that the defense can only complement the offense. What if the offense has a poor outing in a playoff game?,I believe that the defense can not win a game when facing a quality opponent (not a backup QB) if the offense struggles.
You have been comprehensively thrashed and have demonstrated you are a slow learner. Welcome to my ignore list.
 
You have been comprehensively thrashed and have demonstrated you are a slow learner. Welcome to my ignore list.

Its been a pleasure, I'm sorry you fail to recognize (admit) the flaws of the Patriots defense, and just say the other teams in the AFC have flaws too and some more than the Patriots, and because the Patriots beat them it outweighs all of the flaws that the Patriots have. The NFL is only a one game series, one bad game could end a season.
 
First of all I gave and continue to give the Patriots all the credit in the world in the Ravens game, that was their best game of the season, playing well in a wire to wire close game and not depending on the offense to win games. I also did not count out the Jets, Bears and Steelers wins, they were great performances by the defense, but they did not do anything to prove that they can win without the offense getting them a double digit lead. Last night they did win without the offense giving them a double digit lead, but did it really prove that they can do it again? They wont be facing a team with their quarterback making his first ever career NFL start. If Rodgers played last night and the Patriots play they way they did they lose by atleast a touchdown.

I think at the heart of this discussion, you and I probably agree on a lot of things about this defense. It's not that I disagree with some of your concerns. But I don't think you really understand this defense, you don't get it.

The problem with this defense is they're young and they read their press clippings. If Rodgers played last night, they would have taken the game more seriously, and they probably would have done significantly better. It's no surprise that some of the best performances have been when the spotlight has shone brightest, against the Steelers, Colts, Jets and Bears. And it's no surprise the same team that blew out the Jets and the Bears back to back could look so awful against Cleveland and Green Bay with Matt Flynn. Our defense is still young, inexperienced, still learning what it takes to be consistent.

Take last night's game for example. They were awful the first 3 quarters. Terrible. But in the 4th quarter, they were able to clamp down and win the game. Against the Lions, they were awful in the first half, but dominated in the second. Against the Colts, they struggled early on, shut out Manning in the 3rd quarter to take a big lead, then got complacent and gave it away again in the 4th. Against Ben, they blew him up for 3 quarters, then relaxed. Ditto Chargers game. It's frustrating to watch.

But I like this defense in big games against big opponents. I get most concerned when they play crap teams, which is probably the opposite of almost everyone else.

Last year's defense was way better statistically in almost every single category. But last year's defense could not close out a game. They blew leads all the time. This year's D, not so good stat-wise. But when the game is on the line, they have consistently found a way to close it out, which is why we're 12-2.

You've mentioned that they haven't won close games or that they need a double-digit lead from the offense or that they rely on turnovers, but that doesn't do justice to a team that's found a way to win a lot of different games. They've won games when leading by a lot, they've won games coming from behind, they've won games that were tight throughout, they've won games they should have lost, they've won games they should have won big but then gave back but then still pulled out, they've won games they trailed at the half, they've won games where the offense looked hideous, they've won games where the defense looked hideous. They are finding a way to win games in every single way imaginable.

That's resilience, and that's why I love this defense. They're not perfect. They're not even great. But they're a resilient group of guys who find a way to get it done.
 
The Pats had a pick-6, and then had a 72 yard return giving them the ball at the 4 yard line. Those two plays had a lot to do with that. That stat is not as good as it seems.

Right and when did we discredit the importance of special teams, creating turnovers, and the SCORING DEFENSE that you're so hellbent on bashing? Pats needed all of the above to beat the Rams, beat the Steelers in the AFCCG, etc. Good teams just find ways to win. Sometimes it's ugly, but history remembers the winners. So far this team has managed to do just that.

I'm sure it really scares you that this team has its flaws and its warts and isn't blowing out teams 45-0 every single game. But as long as the Pats have less flaws than the other team and WINS, that's really what matters. Feel free to ignore this post and go into panic mode. We'll wake you up after we win. You'll probably still put up a post criticizing the W somehow.

Last year's defense was way better statistically in almost every single category. But last year's defense could not close out a game. They blew leads all the time. This year's D, not so good stat-wise. But when the game is on the line, they have consistently found a way to close it out, which is why we're 12-2.

You've mentioned that they haven't won close games or that they need a double-digit lead from the offense or that they rely on turnovers, but that doesn't do justice to a team that's found a way to win a lot of different games. They've won games when leading by a lot, they've won games coming from behind, they've won games that were tight throughout, they've won games they should have lost, they've won games they should have won big but then gave back but then still pulled out, they've won games they trailed at the half, they've won games where the offense looked hideous, they've won games where the defense looked hideous. They are finding a way to win games in every single way imaginable.

That's resilience, and that's why I love this defense. They're not perfect. They're not even great. But they're a resilient group of guys who find a way to get it done.

Thank you for putting that so well. Can't agree more. This defense may be ugly, and it's far from perfect but it does get the job done. And it has closed the door when it counts in the close games. This D might give you a heart attack but they give you much more reason to believe than the 2009 D. Not to mention this D is not the same defense without Spikes and the other inactives for the Bears game. We will see all those guys back once the playoffs start.
 
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I think at the heart of this discussion, you and I probably agree on a lot of things about this defense. It's not that I disagree with some of your concerns. But I don't think you really understand this defense, you don't get it.

The problem with this defense is they're young and they read their press clippings. If Rodgers played last night, they would have taken the game more seriously, and they probably would have done significantly better. It's no surprise that some of the best performances have been when the spotlight has shone brightest, against the Steelers, Colts, Jets and Bears. And it's no surprise the same team that blew out the Jets and the Bears back to back could look so awful against Cleveland and Green Bay with Matt Flynn. Our defense is still young, inexperienced, still learning what it takes to be consistent.

Take last night's game for example. They were awful the first 3 quarters. Terrible. But in the 4th quarter, they were able to clamp down and win the game. Against the Lions, they were awful in the first half, but dominated in the second. Against the Colts, they struggled early on, shut out Manning in the 3rd quarter to take a big lead, then got complacent and gave it away again in the 4th. Against Ben, they blew him up for 3 quarters, then relaxed. Ditto Chargers game. It's frustrating to watch.

But I like this defense in big games against big opponents. I get most concerned when they play crap teams, which is probably the opposite of almost everyone else.

Last year's defense was way better statistically in almost every single category. But last year's defense could not close out a game. They blew leads all the time. This year's D, not so good stat-wise. But when the game is on the line, they have consistently found a way to close it out, which is why we're 12-2.

You've mentioned that they haven't won close games or that they need a double-digit lead from the offense or that they rely on turnovers, but that doesn't do justice to a team that's found a way to win a lot of different games. They've won games when leading by a lot, they've won games coming from behind, they've won games that were tight throughout, they've won games they should have lost, they've won games they should have won big but then gave back but then still pulled out, they've won games they trailed at the half, they've won games where the offense looked hideous, they've won games where the defense looked hideous. They are finding a way to win games in every single way imaginable.

That's resilience, and that's why I love this defense. They're not perfect. They're not even great. But they're a resilient group of guys who find a way to get it done.

I actually pretty much agree with everything that you just said. I am just worried that resiliency can only get this team only so far in the post season especially with how young they are (the youngest D in the league). I will say that they have the ability to prove me wrong and I really hope that if they need to they will. The playoffs will be very entertaining with this team for sure, I am on board and ready for the ride.
 
Right and when did we discredit the importance of special teams, creating turnovers, and the SCORING DEFENSE that you're so hellbent on bashing? Pats needed all of the above to beat the Rams, beat the Steelers in the AFCCG, etc. Good teams just find ways to win. Sometimes it's ugly, but history remembers the winners. So far this team has managed to do just that.

I'm sure it really scares you that this team has its flaws and its warts and isn't blowing out teams 45-0 every single game. But as long as the Pats have less flaws than the other team and WINS, that's really what matters. Feel free to ignore this post and go into panic mode. We'll wake you up after we win. You'll probably still put up a post criticizing the W somehow.

No, you arent really understanding my point or reading my posts. Convertedpatsfan I think understands where I am coming from, he just sees it being a positive, and I see it potentially being a negative.
 
Thank you for putting that so well. Can't agree more. This defense may be ugly, and it's far from perfect but it does get the job done. And it has closed the door when it counts in the close games. This D might give you a heart attack but they give you much more reason to believe than the 2009 D. Not to mention this D is not the same defense without Spikes and the other inactives for the Bears game. We will see all those guys back once the playoffs start.

Speaking of heart attacks, I seriously thought I was going to have one on that last drive against GB But I find myself hoping they make the play, instead of dreading the inevitable big play they're going to give up, which I did last year.

And you're right, the loss of Spikes and the DL depth chart are starting to show. The Packers sub-par running game did a lot of damage. But I like our chances in the post-season as guys heal up and we get Spikes back.

I actually pretty much agree with everything that you just said. I am just worried that resiliency can only get this team only so far in the post season especially with how young they are (the youngest D in the league). I will say that they have the ability to prove me wrong and I really hope that if they need to they will. The playoffs will be very entertaining with this team for sure, I am on board and ready for the ride.

Like I said, we're not that far apart. It's just that you have to remember what this thread title originally was. It's about a local hack who refuses to acknowledge anything good about this defense, and makes ridiculous claims about it. And so at times it seemed you were on the same boat as him is all.

I'd also just add that resiliency is tough to teach and even tougher to acquire. It's all about mental toughness, about finding a way even when you're not at your best.

Not a lot of defenses develop it each year. But it'll be absolutely necessary come play-off time. There is no easy road to the Super Bowl, and there will be a time we need a defense that can bear down and find a way to make a big play. Ours can.
 
Well considering they completely dominated the game controlling TOP 40-19, outgaing the Patriots by 120 yards, only committing 2 penalties as opposed to the Patriots 7. If the Patriots were the Packers position I think a lot of people would be saying how they deserved to win that game. The Packers played better than the Patriots last night overall, it was just a turnover and a 72 yard kick return by a linemen and some poor coaching that really prevented the Packers from winning the game. As a whole the Packers outplayed the Patriots. How did the Patriots outplay the Packers?
This is where you totally fail in all of your discussions.
You want statistics to decide games rather than points.
The penalties, time of possession, turnovers, kick returns, the onside kick, blocking, tackling, running, throwing, catching, all had to do with who won the game.
The Patriots outplayed the Packers because they scored more points.
It is moronic to act as if you can pick and choose which parts of a football game you want to count and which you dont.
The team that scores the most points deserves to win. There is no debate of that.
 
My point is that the Patriots are very vulnerable when the offense does not play like it has been playing for the majority of the season. Last nights game proves my point. The defense is just a little above average, and I dont think they can win a playoff game when the offense does not give them a double digit lead. If the Patriots played like they did last night against any playoff team do you really think they would win? I think BB would say no, he pretty much did last night and today in his pressers. The Patriots allowed the game vs. Matt Flynn and the Packers to come down to the last possession, that is fairly concerning.
Football games are played on the field, not on the stat sheet and they are decided by points. They are not decided by yards, or by discounting the plays you want to discount (ie turnovers) and assume the outcome would be different without them.
The defense is not above average, it probably barely is average in many areas in a vaccuum. But you dont play in a vaccuum. The Ravens are a statistically superior defense to the Patriots yet the Ravens D consistently fails in the 4th quarter and ours does not. I am sure you think the Raven defense is better than the Patriots because it destroys awful teams. (Same with the Jets)That will not help it in the playoffs but the fact that they consistently fail in the 4th quarter will kill them against good teams.
The Patriot defense has shown that it consistently steps up in the 4th quarter. That it takes the ball away. As was proven,contrary to your opinion, takeaways are more common and more important in the post-season.
Finally, you may be 100% correct that this defense may have a harder time winning if its offense craps the bed than most teams. (I doubt it though because the defense has played to the scoreboard all season, and that is much more telling than any stats) But this team is far less likely to need its defense to overcome a crappy offensive day than any other.
What team do you expect to stop this Patriot offense and even make your concern relevant.

At this point, you just seem to be wasting an awful lot of time trying to make up a hypothetical argument to create a ficticious scenario to confirm your negativity after making a statement that we wont win because we rely on turnovers that proved to be completely wrong, and now you are scrambling for credibility.
I will give you an analogy.
When I was a teenager, I umpired Little League baseball. There was a sliding rule, where if the play was close you had to slide.
In one game there was a play that wasn't close and the guy didnt slide. The coach came out and argued and I told him the rule only applies to a close play and this wasnt a close play. Later there was a close play and the player slid, and was safe. He came out and argued that he slid too had. Finally, there was a play that the player didnt slide and was out. He came out and argued AGAIN. I told him I called the player out, and he argued for 10 minutes about whether I would have called him out if he was safe but didnt slide.
You are becoming that coach. You have forsaken having a valid argument with the desire to simply argue the point, and change your argument to fit the circumstances.
As I said earlier, your concern had become how would the defense play in a close game because it hadnt been in many, then when it shuts out a team in the 4th quarter of a 1 score game, your argument changes to other issues.
 
I agree about being outplayed last night.If Rodgers played last night it might not even have been close as it was.This defense particularly the defensive line was awful!The packers's running game is a joke and they ran all over them.The offense will have to click on all cylinders come playoffs time.This defense still scares me.

If Rodgers had played, Brady would have had more time on the field... Pack wouldn't start playing with an onside kick, the Packs would have scored faster and Brady would have outgunned him... IMO, that's how it would have been - it would be an entirely different game from the first snap. That's the beauty of the game, each one is different.
 
This is where you totally fail in all of your discussions.
You want statistics to decide games rather than points.
The penalties, time of possession, turnovers, kick returns, the onside kick, blocking, tackling, running, throwing, catching, all had to do with who won the game.
The Patriots outplayed the Packers because they scored more points.
It is moronic to act as if you can pick and choose which parts of a football game you want to count and which you dont.
The team that scores the most points deserves to win. There is no debate of that.

The Patriots did not deserve to win that game, I would think BB and most of the players agree with that as well. When you have a 20 minute TOP advantage, you are more than likely to win the game, it shows you controlled the ball almost the entire game, and the opposing defense struggled to stop the offense. Why do you think BB's presser was like the Patriots lost the game?
 
The Patriots did not deserve to win that game, I would think BB and most of the players agree with that as well. When you have a 20 minute TOP advantage, you are more than likely to win the game, it shows you controlled the ball almost the entire game, and the opposing defense struggled to stop the offense. Why do you think BB's presser was like the Patriots lost the game?

How can a team that makes the plays to win the game not deserve to win? You are saying the Packers deserved to win because other things than the score are more important?
You are way, way out of whack with the idea that you know more about what decides a football game than the score does,
It does not matter who had possession, who had yards, who had penalties, who did what. 2 teams faced each other. The purpose was to figure out who would score more points. Being better at things that don't add up to more points is meaningless. Meaningless.
BBs press conference was because he has a very high standard of performance for his team. They did not play as well as he felt they should. He was disappointed in their level of play, even though it was GOOD ENOUGH TO WIN.
To say they didnt deserve to win is assinine.
 
The Patriots did not deserve to win that game, I would think BB and most of the players agree with that as well. When you have a 20 minute TOP advantage, you are more than likely to win the game, it shows you controlled the ball almost the entire game, and the opposing defense struggled to stop the offense. Why do you think BB's presser was like the Patriots lost the game?
What you are saying here is that you think the winner of a game should be determined by something other than the score. By definition if the team that scored the most points didnt deserve to win because of X, then X must be more important that the score.
What do you propose? Should time of possession determine the winner?
Do you think the Patriots would have done something different in that game to impact time of possession if the goal of playing was to win time of possession?
Are you beginning to see the light? What the team did was what it could best do to score more points. On the way to succeeding at that it failed at a LESSER statistical area. You now appear to want the statistical area that was not the one they played to impact to be the gauge of whether they deserved to win.
Ludicrous.
Would you prefer the winner is decided by a vote?
 
Football games are played on the field, not on the stat sheet and they are decided by points. They are not decided by yards, or by discounting the plays you want to discount (ie turnovers) and assume the outcome would be different without them.
The defense is not above average, it probably barely is average in many areas in a vaccuum. But you dont play in a vaccuum. The Ravens are a statistically superior defense to the Patriots yet the Ravens D consistently fails in the 4th quarter and ours does not. I am sure you think the Raven defense is better than the Patriots because it destroys awful teams. (Same with the Jets)That will not help it in the playoffs but the fact that they consistently fail in the 4th quarter will kill them against good teams.
The Patriot defense has shown that it consistently steps up in the 4th quarter. That it takes the ball away. As was proven,contrary to your opinion, takeaways are more common and more important in the post-season.
Finally, you may be 100% correct that this defense may have a harder time winning if its offense craps the bed than most teams. (I doubt it though because the defense has played to the scoreboard all season, and that is much more telling than any stats) But this team is far less likely to need its defense to overcome a crappy offensive day than any other.
What team do you expect to stop this Patriot offense and even make your concern relevant.

At this point, you just seem to be wasting an awful lot of time trying to make up a hypothetical argument to create a ficticious scenario to confirm your negativity after making a statement that we wont win because we rely on turnovers that proved to be completely wrong, and now you are scrambling for credibility.
I will give you an analogy.
When I was a teenager, I umpired Little League baseball. There was a sliding rule, where if the play was close you had to slide.
In one game there was a play that wasn't close and the guy didnt slide. The coach came out and argued and I told him the rule only applies to a close play and this wasnt a close play. Later there was a close play and the player slid, and was safe. He came out and argued that he slid too had. Finally, there was a play that the player didnt slide and was out. He came out and argued AGAIN. I told him I called the player out, and he argued for 10 minutes about whether I would have called him out if he was safe but didnt slide.
You are becoming that coach. You have forsaken having a valid argument with the desire to simply argue the point, and change your argument to fit the circumstances.
As I said earlier, your concern had become how would the defense play in a close game because it hadnt been in many, then when it shuts out a team in the 4th quarter of a 1 score game, your argument changes to other issues.

Alright I will start out by saying that your little league analogy is ridiculous, and has nothing to do with this debate and my stance. I am not making a hypothetical argument, I am making a statement and am backing it up with proof. Sunday nights game is a perfect example.

Are you really saying that the Jets and Ravens defenses are better than the Patriots defense? The Jets defense is like the Patriots offense, the Jets defense carries the Jets to wins, just like the Patriots offense. The Jets offense complements the Jets defense, just like the Patriots defense complements the Patriots offense. As for the Ravens, you said the Patriots are just an average defense, but now you are saying that the Ravens are worse than the Patriots? So the Ravens are a below average defense? Are you serious? The Ravens struggle against the Pats but are 10th in total defense, 5th in rushing defense and 4th in points per game. Both of these defenses are much better than the Patriots. Just because the Patriots have forced turnovers and had 2 stops at end of games does not make them better than the Ravens are Jets.

The Ravens, Jets, Steelers all have the defenses to stop the Patriots offense and force the defense to win a game. Dont say that well the Patriots have already beaten all of those teams. The playoffs is a whole different season and prior games mean nothing. I would say that the Ravens and Steelers offenses definitely have the ability to put up points on the Patriots defense. How confident would you be in playing any of those teams if you knew that the Patriots played like it did Sunday night against the Packers? Even if just the offense struggles, how confident are you in the defense? They played terrible against a back up QB Sunday night and were lucky to come away with the win. Terrible clock management at the end definitely had something to do with that, and if a decent QB was in that situation at the end of the game the result probably would have been different.

You just seem overly confident in the defense for the playoffs. I am worried about the defense. Only 4 times all season has the defense given up less than 20 points. What if the offense cannot put up 20 points, does the defense have the ability to hold a quality offense to 14-17 points? If the offense struggles in the playoffs, our chances of winning get very slim.
 
I love when the losers say we were the best, we deserved to win. Nothing better than that, it's funny and makes winning so much more meaningful.

I had a link to that TJ Housyamama Bungles post game interview for years, I should have downloaded it.

They know they couldn't cover us, that's why they played us like they did (meaning totally shut them down). Lololololol.
 
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