idle thoughts - whining like a little....

[Deus Irae]

I could care less about how Seymour plays THIS year. He was never going to come back to NE after his contract was over. His demands didn't meet his value, it was as simple as that. The only year his play really mattered was last year....and that was pretty unforgetable IIRC.

I'm happy he's playing well, and I hope he gets his big contract somewhere next season (preferably not in the AFCE). Would he look good in a Pats uni right now. Of course, but who do you subtract from the team for that to happen, because there is only so much money to go around. Do you keep him instead of Wilfolk long term? Ty Warren? Brady? You weren't going to keep all of them plus Seymour.

So what if Seymour is having a good season. So what if he's a good influence in a lockerroom where anything would be an improvement. The point is that Seymour would have made little difference in 2009 and would have been gone in 2010. The point is that the Pats got some value in return for a diminishing asset. Why should we hate that the Raiders got some value in return. They are certainly paying top dollar for it.

Seymour would have made a huge difference last season, and he didn't need to be "gone" in 2010. Justifying a bad trade by asserting that the Patriots would have made a different mistake a year later is not sound logic.

 

[102 Pat]

Awesome rant, maybe you can become the "official ranter" for the site!

I hope the Pats win tomorrow night, life is so much better when the Pats win.

 

[Wretch]

Seymour would have made a huge difference last season, and he didn't need to be "gone" in 2010. Justifying a bad trade by asserting that the Patriots would have made a different mistake a year later is not sound logic.

We will not be able to judge the trade until we see the player selected with the pick. If its a miss then its a bad trade, if its a solid starter on O or D for 10 years then maybe its a wash, and if its an all pro then its a good trade. The value of the trade will not be apparent until after the pick.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

We will not be able to judge the trade until we see the player selected with the pick. If its a miss then its a bad trade, if its a solid starter on O or D for 10 years then maybe its a wash, and if its an all pro then its a good trade. The value of the trade will not be apparent until after the pick.

Not sure I agree. If the pick is a bust than it was a bad trade - under any other scenario I think it was a good trade. Don't forget that Seymour is getting $12.5M this year - we would have to let 2 - 4 guys go to pay that. And I think our best SB chances are probably over the next 2 to 4 years, so Sey would be gone at that point and the pick might help a lot.

I just bristle at the people that say dumb Al got fleeced. Al Davis got what he wanted, Seymour is better than 4 out of Oakland's 5 last 1st round picks, so I think the trade worked both ways (depending on our pick).

You can forget about all of the "Top 5 2011 Draft Pick" threads. Looks like we would have been better off with the Oakland's 2010 draft pick - we could have had Maurkice Pouncey or Dez Bryant.

 

[Deus Irae]

We will not be able to judge the trade until we see the player selected with the pick. If its a miss then its a bad trade, if its a solid starter on O or D for 10 years then maybe its a wash, and if its an all pro then its a good trade. The value of the trade will not be apparent until after the pick.

It's Seymour for a first, and that's what matters. What the team does with the pick is irrelevant. Whether the Pick becomes the next great player, a mediocrity or the next great bust is irrelevant.

 

[cloud34]

Not sure I agree. If the pick is a bust than it was a bad trade - under any other scenario I think it was a good trade. Don't forget that Seymour is getting $12.5M this year - we would have to let 2 - 4 guys go to pay that. And I think our best SB chances are probably over the next 2 to 4 years, so Sey would be gone at that point and the pick might help a lot.

I just bristle at the people that say dumb Al got fleeced. Al Davis got what he wanted, Seymour is better than 4 out of Oakland's 5 last 1st round picks, so I think the trade worked both ways (depending on our pick).

You can forget about all of the "Top 5 2011 Draft Pick" threads. Looks like we would have been better off with the Oakland's 2010 draft pick - we could have had Maurkice Pouncey or Dez Bryant.

If the Pats had opted for the 2010 pick, it would have been a 2nd rounder.

 

[patfanken]

Seymour would have made a huge difference last season, and he didn't need to be "gone" in 2010. Justifying a bad trade by asserting that the Patriots would have made a different mistake a year later is not sound logic.

Sorry DI, but that just doesn't wash. Last season Seymour had just 47 tackles, and 4 sacks, which included TWO over the last 15 games of the season. THAT kind of performance would NOT have significantly impacted the Pats 2009 defense. Would have it been better with him, sure...but how much better? Clearly his performance THIS season is much better. His stats for half the season almost exceed those he got for then entire season in 2009.

No one ever said that Seymour was a bad player, or that was done. What he was, was a older player who wanted a big money long term contract. He was a player who was often nicked up and when he was it affected his play. Injuries aren't something that lessens as a player gets older.

Then you have to add in the personal stuff. Prior to that season there were several reasonable reports that Seymour wanted out of NE, that he wasn't going to sign an extention regardless of the money. Some reported that he simply didn't like living in New England. Some reported bad feelings with the team over past slights, real or imagined,
Add all that up, and while it was POSSIBLE that the Pats could have re-signed him, it wasn't very likely

Ultimately if you weigh the injury risk, the age risk. the salary structure risk, vrs what you the Pats had seen the last 2-3 years on the field, this was a no brainer. Seymour might have been the best DLman in the league early in the decade, but over the last few seasons, few would argue that he hadn't even been the best DLman on his own team.


Now whether the pick is in the top 10 or in the 20's it doesn't really matter. It doesn't even matter if the player works out or not. The most likely scenario was that the Pats would have been without Richard Seymour for the 2010 season, with only a end of the round 3rd (at best) to compensate them (#95+) in the 2011 draft. Now, even with the Raiders resent success, the Pats are likely to get a 15-25 pick - and in an already thin draft. That is HUGE

 

[PatsFanSince74]

On a Rant Scale of 1--10, with 1 being what Mother Teresa would have called a rant and 10 being a combo of Russel Crowe, Mel Gibson and Naomi Campbell on benders, THAT was a 15!

And, as someone else put it, "cathartic" for the rest of us as well.

Nothing else to say. Thanks.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I just hope that the Pats play a hard fought game tomorrow night because if not, next week's rant will be a keyboard smasher.

 

[Deus Irae]

Sorry DI, but that just doesn't wash. Last season Seymour had just 47 tackles, and 4 sacks, which included TWO over the last 15 games of the season. THAT kind of performance would NOT have significantly impacted the Pats 2009 defense. Would have it been better with him, sure...but how much better? Clearly his performance THIS season is much better. His stats for half the season almost exceed those he got for then entire season in 2009.

No one ever said that Seymour was a bad player, or that was done. What he was, was a older player who wanted a big money long term contract. He was a player who was often nicked up and when he was it affected his play. Injuries aren't something that lessens as a player gets older.

Then you have to add in the personal stuff. Prior to that season there were several reasonable reports that Seymour wanted out of NE, that he wasn't going to sign an extention regardless of the money. Some reported that he simply didn't like living in New England. Some reported bad feelings with the team over past slights, real or imagined,
Add all that up, and while it was POSSIBLE that the Pats could have re-signed him, it wasn't very likely

Ultimately if you weigh the injury risk, the age risk. the salary structure risk, vrs what you the Pats had seen the last 2-3 years on the field, this was a no brainer. Seymour might have been the best DLman in the league early in the decade, but over the last few seasons, few would argue that he hadn't even been the best DLman on his own team.


Now whether the pick is in the top 10 or in the 20's it doesn't really matter. It doesn't even matter if the player works out or not. The most likely scenario was that the Pats would have been without Richard Seymour for the 2010 season, with only a end of the round 3rd (at best) to compensate them (#95+) in the 2011 draft. Now, even with the Raiders resent success, the Pats are likely to get a 15-25 pick - and in an already thin draft. That is HUGE

1.) Last season, Seymour played a new position on a new team. The Patriots, meanwhile, needed a run stopping DE who could put some pressure on the QB. The year prior to being traded, Seymour compiled an 8 sack season. Saying that he wouldn't have significantly impacted the 2009 defense is just weak speculation, made in order to avoid admitting that BB completely screwed the pooch.

2.) They could definitely have kept Seymour. This is without question, unless you think that both Wilfork and Seymour definitely wanted out and would have refused any contract offers (Wilfork signing long-term would seem to kill this theory, BTW). They could have gotten a deal done either with Wilfork or Seymour, and franchised the other. Instead, they decided to torpedo an entire season.

That the trade was a disaster should be without question by now. Even the ardent homers should have had the time to figure this out by now and get past the "But, BB!" stage of denial, and into acceptance of the mistake.

 

[Water Boy]

Ken its about time you showed a little emotion! Your body language prior to last week was poor and it manifested in a bad showing in Cleveland. Now the rest of us need to start bringing more passion!

We need to post it better and we need to reply it better.

 

[SuperPatsFan]

Ken its about time you showed a little emotion! Your body language prior to last week was poor and it manifested in a bad showing in Cleveland. Now the rest of us need to start bringing more passion!

We need to post it better and we need to reply it better.

"We were beaten in all three phases of the board. The mods have to mod better, the posters have to post better, and the trolls have to troll better. We have our work cut out for us."

 

[Brady2Welker]

Ken its about time you showed a little emotion! Your body language prior to last week was poor and it manifested in a bad showing in Cleveland. Now the rest of us need to start bringing more passion!

We need to post it better and we need to reply it better.

"We were beaten in all three phases of the board. The mods have to mod better, the posters have to post better, and the trolls have to troll better. We have our work cut out for us."

Post of the year.

 

[VJCPatriot]

...B!tch...who just saw her hated rival with the same prom dress.

Now I was only a HS coach, but I know damned well that there are coverages you can use that can eliminate that threat (albeit leave other areas weaker). Now if this just happened a couple of time a game, I'd feel better, but HOW MANY TIMES have we watch a 3rd and long get converted by one of those passes. HELLO....anyone home!!! Don't you think that teams will keep one throwing it, until the day comes that we start to DEFEND IT.

LOL. We've had this problem since the AFCCG vs the Colts in 2006. I think the New England coaches are well aware of it. The coverages they are calling seem to concede this play because... perhaps they are more afraid of the outside pass?

2. And if that's not frustrating enough, while every team from Colt McCoy to freakin' Ryan Fitzpatrick can seemingly complete that kind of throw with ease, we have a freakin' HOF QB who seem incapable of even attempting it. No our bread and butter seems to be throwing the ball 30 yds SIDEWAYS for 5 yd gains!!!!!!!!

Oh I think Brady is capable of making that throw, but it really depends on the play call, the reads, and where the receivers end up.

3. And speaking of the offensive pass game, what ever happened to throwing the deep back shoulder ball into man to man coverage. That's the pass where the ball is purposely slightly underthown, so the WR has to comeback for it a bit. Its an excellent pattern against the kind of man to man coverage we are seeing. Just another pass that DOESN'T seen to be in our repartoire.

That play seemed to be cut out once we got rid of Moss. Or perhaps it had been cut out to begin the season which really limited how much action Moss could see and thus also made him unhappy which led to us trading him. We don't have an 'official OC' but you've got to think that the OC is not calling such plays on purpose for whatever reason.

5.
I have watched Tate make great catches 3 or 4 deep passes. Unfortunately most of them were out of bounds, but that's not his fault. It shows the skill is there, we just have to target him more than 3 times a game. Tate is a guy who was supposed to be better than Hakeem Nicks.....well not so far he isn't....and I think its because he isn't getting enough chances.

Tate brings more to the table in the special teams department than Nicks, but he's not as big and physical. I agree that he should be utilized more on offense, but Brady has to gain trust and timing with him first. Remember that this is really Tate's first full season with the offense, he was injured all of last year.

Now I have go and google Peyton Hillis to find out where this kid came from. Enjoy.

Peyton Hillis was drafted in the 7th round by the Denver Broncos. He was a RB/FB from Arkansas. The Browns acquired him in a trade involving Brady Quinn. Considering how terribly unproductive Quinn has been, it looks like the Browns got the better end of the deal.

 

[SuperPatsFan]

LOL. We've had this problem since the AFCCG vs the Colts in 2006. I think the New England coaches are well aware of it. The coverages they are calling seem to concede this play because... perhaps they are more afraid of the outside pass?

Leaving the middle of the field open ("MOFO" as it's called) with a deep cover-2 look of the type the Patriots often use can still be effective, if the safeties are punishing hitters and are able to make receivers pay for receptions over the middle.

 

[Nunchucks]

Seymour would have made a huge difference last season, and he didn't need to be "gone" in 2010. Justifying a bad trade by asserting that the Patriots would have made a different mistake a year later is not sound logic.

I concur, as a person who thought the trade was a mistake, this evidence justifies my initial concerns. They definitely could have used him last year and definitely could have used him this year. The chances of this first round picking turning into an all pro talent player is a pipe dream. You get talent like Seymour, you should hold on to it.

 

[captain stone]

...B!tch...who just saw her hated rival with the same prom dress.

1. The fact that we are half way through the season and we are STILL unable to defend ANY kind of pass in the middle of the field underneath the safeties, just fries my ass It was unpleasant to see Keller catch about 3 of this kind of pass in game 2, but it was somewhat understandable,given the youth of the secondary at THAT time of the year. BUT its not game two anymore and its freakin' COLT McCOY throwing the passes to guys I never heard of before. And its not just the TE's. It seems like any receiver who wanders into the soft underbelly of the Pats defense in that part of the field is assured of free look. Yeah, he'll take a good lick....but only after he gets his 15-20 yd reception....usually on 3rd down.

Now I was only a HS coach, but I know damned well that there are coverages you can use that can eliminate that threat (albeit leave other areas weaker). Now if this just happened a couple of time a game, I'd feel better, but HOW MANY TIMES have we watch a 3rd and long get converted by one of those passes. HELLO....anyone home!!! Don't you think that teams will keep one throwing it, until the day comes that we start to DEFEND IT.

2. And if that's not frustrating enough, while every team from Colt McCoy to freakin' Ryan Fitzpatrick can seemingly complete that kind of throw with ease, we have a freakin' HOF QB who seem incapable of even attempting it. No our bread and butter seems to be throwing the ball 30 yds SIDEWAYS for 5 yd gains!!!!!!!!

Somehow, despite the so calledbroad complexity of our massive offensive playbook, seam passes in the middle and deep passes to the outside don't SEEM to be in there anymore. Every now and then we see a pass to Hernandez in that area....but there seems to be a one play LIMIT on how many times Brady can throw that pattern..

3. And speaking of the offensive pass game, what ever happened to throwing the deep back shoulder ball into man to man coverage. That's the pass where the ball is purposely slightly underthown, so the WR has to comeback for it a bit. Its an excellent pattern against the kind of man to man coverage we are seeing. Just another pass that DOESN'T seen to be in our repartoire.

4. And aren't you getting tired of watching the highlights every week and seening long passes being completed to receivers who seem to be fairly well covered, just because the QB gave them a chance to "make a play". Isn't that allowed on the Pats. Have we taken that play out of the books because most of our receivers are smaller than the CBs that cover them.

5. And don't tell me that our receivers are too young or inexperienced. How can we say that when we watch Rivers and Manning throw completions to practise squad WRs and TEs we have never heard of, or will likely ever hear of again. Don't tell me these guys are better than Brady...or are they?

I have watched Tate make great catches 3 or 4 deep passes. Unfortunately most of them were out of bounds, but that's not his fault. It shows the skill is there, we just have to target him more than 3 times a game. Tate is a guy who was supposed to be better than Hakeem Nicks.....well not so far he isn't....and I think its because he isn't getting enough chances.

6. Bottom line I'm getting tired of watching us have to complete 3 passes inorder to get one first down. I'm tired of watching other teams complete passes against us, that we seem incapable or reluctant to throw it. So THIS week, I want to see us DEFEND that damned seam pass.....AND THEN, I want to see us throw it against someone...more than once.

7. And I'm sick and tired of watching all the teams I hate win games they should be losing. The Jets are gifted their second game in a row by the Lions, while the Raider squeak by in a game they easily could have lost. So not only does my team get crushed last week, NONE of the teams I wanted to lose....LOST.

Hey, I'm old, so I deserve to be cranky occasionally.

There....I feel better.

That being said, we ARE 6-2 though after last week, it seems hard to believe. Just a few comments on that game.

a. Yeah we sucked, but that was clear for anyone to see, so that's all I'll say on that.
b. Peyton Hillis looked like the best back we've seen this season. The Pats have been an excellent tackling team to that point in the season, and I don't remember any back getting so much yardage AFTER first contact. What a nice back, very nimble too.
c. As much as I hate to say it, that 4th down sneak play with 3 layers of shifting was BRILLIANT - by the time the ball was snapped, we had no chance. The play on the GL was almost as good.
d. Tip of the cap to "the rat" and his minions. That was as good a game plan as I've seen from an opponent, in all 3 aspects of the game (O, D, ST's) during the BB era. Granted they had the extra week, but STILL.....

Finally a few comments on the Steeler game:

Its hard to think that after watching the Browns game that the Pats could somehow manage a win against the Steelers.... in Pittsburgh. At the Razor I might feel differently, but this is still a Pats team that hasn't faired well on the road to begin with, and now with a gimpy Brady, coming off a real dud on the the road the week before, I'm not holding out much hope for a win. Right now I'd just like to see them play a competitive game, a better game, regardless of the score.

For me that game we HAVE to win is the Colts game. No excuses there, if we are to be considered a true playoff contender.

Still, if this season has taught us anything is that any team can beat any team on a given Sunday, but our path to win has been clearly marked. We CANNOT turn the ball over. We must take the ball away a few times. We must play flawless special teams, and NOT take critical penalties. We do that and we can win a close game. Its the old Parcells formula. Just stick around so you are there at the end of game, and anything can happen

Now I have go and google Peyton Hillis to find out where this kid came from. Enjoy.

I completely agree with everything in your post.

 

[captain stone]

It's as if Ken is channeling...That was almost NEMesque in it's focus and simplicity...

...yet his thoughts were also valid, oui?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

...yet his thoughts were also valid, oui?

That would be negative. You play the hand you're dealt and Bill usually draws from the deck for a reason. The strength of our scheme lies in the ability of BB to break down defenses and Brady to read them. Not easy to find WR's with a similar skillset or defenders with the sufficient combination of talent and humility to execute these schemes as envisioned, but the aternative (drafting in the top ten perennially and loading up on top tier FA talent and hoping together they overwhelm opponents and stay healthy enough that the scrubs filling out the roster never have to play a snap or you're jumping on the HC/GM/coordinator carousel every other season in hopes they've got the answer) sucks.

If this weren't my team too I'd be tempted to root for just that happening to this fanbase AGAIN just to teach them a lesson they were either too young or too ignorant or too full of themselves to learn even back in the good old days when they were laughingstocks just like their franchise...

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

Reading the title made me think of this video:

YouTube - Nitro boat vs whiney girlfriend