Browns:We knew we could run on them

[jmt57]

bah......the running became easy because mccoy was able to do pretty much whatever he wanted.

the pats defense is incapable of confusing a rookie 3rd string QB

Maybe, maybe not, I don't know. McCoy was indeed able to complete a very high percentage of his passes, but he only threw for about 170 yards.

I think it was Cleveland getting a good size lead early and the Browns being able to run the ball that made McCoy's job easy, not the other way around. McCoy only had two third and longs, and both times his passes were incomplete. Nearly all his completions came on first down, or 2nd/3rd and short. After the first quarter he was never in a predictable 3rd and long situation.

 

[jmt57]

Patriots-Browns: Inside the numbers - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Browns RB Peyton Hillis carried the ball six times for 59 yards (9.8 yds per carry) and a touchdown on Sunday when the Patriots had eight or more defenders in the box. Entering Week 9, the Patriots had allowed only 1.3 yards per carry with eight in the box, fourth-best in the NFL. Hillis also rushed for three first downs in those situations, half the total that the Patriots had allowed in their first seven games this season (six).

Of his 29 carries, Hillis ran the ball 21 times for 133 yards and a touchdown on attempts between the tackles (72.4 percent). Entering Week 9, only 49ers RB Frank Gore (69.5) had a higher percentage of his carries go up the middle than Hillis (65.4).

So why was the Pats run defense up the middle so bad after it had previously done well in this area? If Hillis historically runs the ball up the middle, then why did the Pats start Wilfork at DE?

 

[mgteich]

Apparently the patriots feel that Warren is a better starter at NT than at DE. This continues to speak to the need of a top DE. It seems that we have succeeded with Deaderick. We need another.

What we needed was corner or safety help on run downs.

Patriots-Browns: Inside the numbers - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston





So why was the Pats run defense up the middle so bad after it had previously done well in this area? If Hillis historically runs the ball up the middle, then why did the Pats start Wilfork at DE?

 

[SuperPatsFan]

The Browns interior line -- Steinbach, Yates, Mack -- matched up very favorably against whomever the Patriots put at the nose (G. Warren or Wilfork), as well as Spikes and Mayo.

With 8 minutes to go in the 3rd, Brace and G. Warren were lined up in the middle. They were turned easily by the Browns interior linemen and Hillis picked up 8.

Cunningham was notably ineffective, being sealed on numerous occassions. On the same play, Yates pulled and erased Cunningham.

Anyway, overall there's a lot of good film for the rookies to learn from, and they can build on this game.

ETA: Rewatching now, Meriweather was brought up repeatedly in run support. Would Chung have performed better?

 

[jmt57]

Apparently the patriots feel that Warren is a better starter at NT than at DE. This continues to speak to the need of a top DE. It seems that we have succeeded with Deaderick. We need another.

What we needed was corner or safety help on run downs.

Perhaps the team missed Chung in this game more than we had anticipated they would? The Pats defense was able to effectively neutralize Adrian Peterson, but didn't come close to stopping Hillis. Of course they do have different styles; Hillis pretty much stays between the tackles while Peterson is much more of a threat to the outside.

Ty Warren missing the entire season doesn't help things either.

 

[Deus Irae]

Apparently the patriots feel that Warren is a better starter at NT than at DE. This continues to speak to the need of a top DE. It seems that we have succeeded with Deaderick. We need another.

What we needed was corner or safety help on run downs.

A portion of the post you quoted:

Browns RB Peyton Hillis carried the ball six times for 59 yards (9.8 yds per carry) and a touchdown on Sunday when the Patriots had eight or more defenders in the box. Entering Week 9, the Patriots had allowed only 1.3 yards per carry with eight in the box, fourth-best in the NFL. Hillis also rushed for three first downs in those situations, half the total that the Patriots had allowed in their first seven games this season (six).

New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard

Safety/corner help didn't solve the problem.

 

[WhiZa]

If they took Mayo out of the game when why did he lead the team in tackles?

If they setup Spikes to make plays why didn't he lead the team in tackles? It's not like he had a bad game either?

Something is not right about what he is saying

 

[captain stone]

The Pats defense is incapable of confusing a rookie 3rd-string QB...

...this is a recording.

It seems as if whenever Bill plays against a QB for the first time, he has no f#&king clue
how to properly defend him. Very, very frustrating.

To give the devil his due, McCoy looks like he might be the real deal.
The Clowns were lucky that he fell right onto their laps on draft Friday.

Still, had Gronk & Morris not gone all AFU on the KO,
and Gronk protected the ball as soon as he felt the 2nd/3rd defenders on him,
and Lil' Johnny Wilhite sacked the QB whom he had dead to rights and who never saw him coming,
then the Clowns would've been ahead only 22(or 23 or 24)to 21 late in the game.
Who knows what would've happened then?

The fact is, this team is not nearly talented enough to overcome fumbled KOs & GTG chances
and blown sacks (Hello too to Spikes & Cunningham) on the road and still win.

 

[condon84]

...this is a recording.

It seems as if whenever Bill plays against a QB for the first time, he has no f#&king clue
how to properly defend him. Very, very frustrating.

To give the devil his due, McCoy looks like he might be the real deal.
The Clowns were lucky that he fell right onto their laps on draft Friday.

Still, had Gronk & Morris not gone all AFU on the KO,
and Gronk protected the ball as soon as he felt the 2nd/3rd defenders on him,
and Lil' Johnny Wilhite sacked the QB whom he had dead to rights and who never saw him coming,
then the Clowns would've been ahead only 22(or 23 or 24)to 21 late in the game.
Who knows what would've happened then?

The fact is, this team is not nearly talented enough to overcome fumbled KOs & GTG chances
and blown sacks (Hello too to Spikes & Cunningham) on the road and still win.

McCoy isn't the real deal. Just like AJ Feeley isn't the real deal, or Seneca Wallace or Chad Henne. These guys may have lit up our defense in the past, but reality says they are journeymen QBs.

Yes, Henne's just average.

 

[AJY the Jets troll]

I love this stuff, total bulletin board material. If commentary like this doesn't get the run defense more motivated, I don't know what will.

I don't think lank of motivation is the problem for our young defense, I think it's talent. Richard Seymour would be great right about now.

Also does anyone else consider "young defense" a euphemism for crappy.

 

[captain stone]

McCoy isn't the real deal. Just like AJ Feeley isn't the real deal, or Seneca Wallace or Chad Henne. These guys may have lit up our defense in the past, but reality says they are journeymen QBs.

Yes, Henne's just average.

Why are you so down on McCoy?
Is it his relative lack of height/arm strength, or more to do with intangibles?

 

[Kontradiction]

Perhaps the team missed Chung in this game more than we had anticipated they would? The Pats defense was able to effectively neutralize Adrian Peterson, but didn't come close to stopping Hillis. Of course they do have different styles; Hillis pretty much stays between the tackles while Peterson is much more of a threat to the outside.

Ty Warren missing the entire season doesn't help things either.

Even with Wilfork at DE, Hillis was having success running to the outside.

 

[mgteich]

Why is it a surprise that a 345 pound nose tackle is not good at setting the edge?

Even with Wilfork at DE, Hillis was having success running to the outside.

 

[spacecrime]

BB is too clever to get taken twice by this. Instead of downhill Spikes at ILB he'll start McKenzie at ILB against running teams. Book it.

I don't think the Bucs will like this idea very much...

 

[Kontradiction]

Why is it a surprise that a 345 pound nose tackle is not good at setting the edge?

Probably because he has been for the entire season? The OLB's are just as much to blame for the debacle on the outside runs as Wilfork is. One can make an argument that they're more to blame since they weren't specifically targeted for double teams by the O-Linemen.

 

[SuperPatsFan]

There's a nice little Hillis run to the left with Wilfork at DE the start of the 3rd.

Browns 1st and 10, 12:53 to go in the 3rd, hand off to Hillis...

Brace is lined up at the 0, he's double teamed and turned by the C and RG.

Ben Watson seals Cunningham.

The LG and LT double team Wilfork, then the LT quickly releases to Spikes.

Hillis picks up 5.

To be fair, the Browns had 5 blockers at the point of attack, including the FB Vickers leading for Hillis, and the Patriots only had 4 defending, counting Arrington.

On the very next play, Wilfork moves back to the 0. It's a handoff to Hillis up the middle. Wilfork is double teamed and pushed aside by the C and RG. Interesting that the LG pulls and shoots through the hole to crush Mayo. 5 yard gain.

ETA: On another Hillis run, I see Ron Brace get wiped out, then slap the turf in frustration. I kinda feel bad for the guy. I hope he (and the other rookies) can bounce back.

 

[spacecrime]

Also does anyone else consider "young defense" a euphemism for crappy.

Ha ha. Two years ago it was the Pats D is crappy because it was too old.

Face it. They lost a game. It doesn't mean they suck or that they need help or whatever. They will lose another one or two, also. Wah wah wah.

Every superbowl winner in history except for one lost a game during the regular season. Good teams lose football games sometimes.

Pats are 6-2. Cripes. What the hell is wrong with people?

 

[mgteich]

I agree. The other poster seem to think that the browns shouldn't have been able to run on Wilfork's side. Ultimately, when DE Wilfork is double-teamed, the OLB should have the responsibility for setting the edge.

Probably because he has been for the entire season? The OLB's are just as much to blame for the debacle on the outside runs as Wilfork is. One can make an argument that they're more to blame since they weren't specifically targeted for double teams by the O-Linemen.

 

[Mack Herron]

Ha ha. Two years ago it was the Pats D is crappy because it was too old.

Face it. They lost a game. It doesn't mean they suck or that they need help or whatever. They will lose another one or two, also. Wah wah wah.

Every superbowl winner in history except for one lost a game during the regular season. Good teams lose football games sometimes.

Pats are 6-2. Cripes. What the hell is wrong with people?

I will take a stab at "what's wrong with people." It isn't just the fact that they got manhandled by the Browns. They have been getting pushed around pretty good all year, and are positively hemorrhaging first downs. Old or young, they cannot get off the field on third down. They are especially vulnerable up front across the line and they have nobody who can rush the passer. A case can be made that the record is at least partly the product of luck and the law of averages will catch up with them. They play much better with a lead, but the offense has been sputtering badly and placing enormous pressure on the Defense that they are not able to handle. We'll see how they do, but if the Steelers run the ball down their throats again, they could easily be 6-3 with the Colts and Jets coming up.

Their performance over the decade has been outstanding, but they are rebuilding and, while they are doing well, they are looking up at the Jets. But such is life in the NFL. Every game is important, and a win against the Steelers and everyone will be seeing a Super Bowl trip again. Let's try and show a little tolerance for fans who get overly excited--or frustrated--about their team. In the grand scheme of things, your local football club is not such a bad thing to go overboard about.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I agree. The other poster seem to think that the browns shouldn't have been able to run on Wilfork's side. Ultimately, when DE Wilfork is double-teamed, the OLB should have the responsibility for setting the edge.

I saw OLB Cunningham get turned around 180 degrees a couple times on runs missing the entire play. Rookie.