I Don't Get It

[JMarr]

Re: I Dont Get It

I'm saying 2 things. One, based on all that I've read the "misbehaving" could have been dealth with. Hey, I think BB is a great coach and as such should have been able to deal with a tempermental and pouty Moss. I'm saying that the pats would have been better this year if he was willing to deal with Moss and all of his pouting which doean not mean putting up with it and could mean disciplining Moss if necessary. Two, given the teams position about not giving Moss a new deal and knowing how insecure Moss is, which is evident to all, it was horrible mismanagement on the part of BB and the Pats organization to go into the season is such a precarious situation. Welker is coming off of major knee surgery and now he is all the pats have for experience at that critical position. And the team has been here before with Branch and we suffered for it in 2006.

Also, are you saying BB is a liar? He said that he never had any disciplinary problems with Moss. Was he lying?

Yeah it's just funny as hell because you see certain people around here basically giving up on the season already, justifying it saying we are in full re-building mode. How original. Doesn't every team's fans basically say the same thing when their team is doing poorly, has a major injury, etc?

The hilarious thing is that the Pats are NOT doing poorly (yet), yet the lemming homers around here are all hedging their bets about what's going to happen with this season by going to the tried and true "rebuilding" card.

 

[emoney_33]

Still 1: Cromartie is turning his hips right after the snap. Moss is not even a step off the LOS and Cromartie's hips are already 45 degrees.

Still 2: Moss is only a yard off the LOS and Cromartie's hips are already more than halfway turned.

Still 3: Cromartie is completely turned and in full sprint mode to cover Moss, with a step on him.

Cromartie is NOT slow, Moss is NOT as fast as he was in his prime. Normally Brady should NOT throw this ball. But given the situation (3rd and long at the 40) it's a better play than throwing it away and punting after Welker sat in double coverage.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: I Dont Get It

BB said he wants to win now./
BB got nothing in return to make the team better now.
A 3rd round pick is next to nothing.

Do you think this was a good trade for the Patriots?
A pass oriented team trading its top weapon for a 3rd round pick next year. That is a good move?

Not only a good move but a great move ...

If your argument is that Randy Moss is more important than Tom Brady, you have lost your mind.
But go ahead and write back about all those big games Moss won, all those SBs he went to and won, etc, etc.

Look, Moss is a great weapon for Brady to have, but that is what he is a weapon. The team and its INCREDIBLE success revolves around Brady. Brady's job is made easier by having Moss. THEORETICALLY, we have a better chance of winning a SB with Moss, yet, we did not.

You want to highlight Moss in 2007 and 1998 as the be all, end all.
I would put Tom Brady 2001,2003,2004 MILES ahead of that.

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=812504

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

I will not agree to disagree on a point as ridiculous as the one you are trying to make. Agreeing to disagree leaves the possibility of truth in both sides, yours has 0 credible truths in it. Moss, for a 100% FACT, did NOT quit on the field on the team to get traded. That's an undeniable fact to any rational person.

Off the field stuff, dealings with O'Brien, discussions with BB etc... those are all potentially valid FACTORS (some of many factors) that can lead to the trade. Intentionally quitting on the team to get traded 100% did NOT happen.

Since you are happy it all worked out for Randy I can understand why you fail to see the obvious.
Go right ahead and believe that Bill Belichick would give away the best deep threat in the league for nothing.
You can't even see a 45 degree angle so what is the point in discussing anything.
I get it you worship Randy Moss and will deny the voluminous evidence that it is his mo to give up and force a team to get rid of him or suffer from his disinterst. Have fun as a Viking fan.

 

[Ring 6]

Still 1: Cromartie is turning his hips right after the snap. Moss is not even a step off the LOS and Cromartie's hips are already 45 degrees.

Still 2: Moss is only a yard off the LOS and Cromartie's hips are already more than halfway turned.

Still 3: Cromartie is completely turned and in full sprint mode to cover Moss, with a step on him.

Wow, you really need glasses.
Draw a line fromt he middle of Cromarties chest to the sideline. What is the angle? 45 degrees like I have ben saying all along. If he was fully turned you couldnt see his numbers and his shoulders would be 90 degrees to the sideline. Wow. YOu just gave video evidence you are wrong and cant even recognize what you see.,

In frame 3 Moss front foot is ahead of Cromarties back foot, hence the less than a step (1 called it a hal step) difference.
Note that Moss has gained about 2 yards on Cromartie in these 3 frames and from this point until they reappear he loses 2.
You just showed exactly what I have been saying.

Cromartie is NOT slow, Moss is NOT as fast as he was in his prime. Normally Brady should NOT throw this ball. But given the situation (3rd and long at the 40) it's a better play than throwing it away and punting after Welker sat in double coverage.

Are you out of your mind? Look at frame 3. This is when Brady decides to throw. Moss is in a full sprint (or should be) and Cromartie is 45 to the sideline less than a step ahead. Moss has outside leverage. There is no safety at all in the play. That is as cloe to open deep as you can be. Do you really think WRs are beyond the DB by 4 yards past the los? Moss has run 4 yards, Cromartie has run 2 and is turning. You need to watch football. A receiver open deep isnt after he has run 30 yards and has 5 on the db. This is just what a QB is looking for to get the ball to his deep threat. You have shown a textbook example of how a deep pass is supposed to go, and you think it shows something different, because Randy can't do anything wrong.
Go look at the TD and tell me where he is compared to Revis after 4 yards.



[/quote]

 

[Ring 6]

Re: I Dont Get It

Not only a good move but a great move ...


New England Patriots Forums - PatsFans.com Patriots Fan Messageboard

So? Since he isn't more important than Tom Brady he is useless? Is that your point?
Thats foolish.

 

[shirtsleeve]

Andy, you are losing me now. Got my head to scratchin.

And look everyone. It doesn't matter who the player is or what his position is, when he becomes a net drag on the team, when the player, for whatever reason becomes a net burdon to the offensive scheme, when a player is disruptive and becomes me-centric, its time for the team to cut ties with the player. That relationship had to be terminated. Its done.

No player is bigger than the team. NO PLAYER.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Re: I Dont Get It

So? Since he isn't more important than Tom Brady he is useless? Is that your point?
Thats foolish.

That was your point you made a few years ago andy.

 

[emoney_33]

Wow, you really need glasses.
Draw a line fromt he middle of Cromarties chest to the sideline. What is the angle? 45 degrees like I have ben saying all along. If he was fully turned you couldnt see his numbers and his shoulders would be 90 degrees to the sideline. Wow. YOu just gave video evidence you are wrong and cant even recognize what you see.,

Show me the next time a DB squares his shoulders with the endzone and runs straight line. Are you suggesting he was to ignore Moss and just run to the endzone or that his neck should twist 180 degrees while the rest of his body is upfield. Good grief, he's running up and out towards the sideline with Moss and is always a step ahead of him. I'll wager that Cromartie runs as fast as Moss, if not faster. Moss is NOT the fastest player in the NFL ya know, not in 2010.

In frame 3 Moss front foot is ahead of Cromarties back foot, hence the less than a step (1 called it a hal step) difference.
Note that Moss has gained about 2 yards on Cromartie in these 3 frames and from this point until they reappear he loses 2.
You just showed exactly what I have been saying.

You seriously are attempting to bend facts in front of your face lol.

Are you out of your mind? Look at frame 3. This is when Brady decides to throw. Moss is in a full sprint (or should be) and Cromartie is 45 to the sideline less than a step ahead. Moss has outside leverage. There is no safety at all in the play. That is as cloe to open deep as you can be. Do you really think WRs are beyond the DB by 4 yards past the los? Moss has run 4 yards, Cromartie has run 2 and is turning. You need to watch football. A receiver open deep isnt after he has run 30 yards and has 5 on the db. This is just what a QB is looking for to get the ball to his deep threat. You have shown a textbook example of how a deep pass is supposed to go, and you think it shows something different, because Randy can't do anything wrong.

I consider you a good poster but good grief you are absolutely off your rocker in your blind hatred of Moss. I'm in absolute awe at your continued demands that what is in front of your face really isn't. Brady absolutely does NOT decide to throw the ball in frame 3, as a matter of fact Welker hasn't even "screwed up" and sat in double coverage yet. That play was designed for Welker, and the situation permitted Brady to take a risk because an INT was as good as a punt there.

Go look at the TD and tell me where he is compared to Revis after 4 yards.

Andy, honestly just go back and watch these things yourself. Revis was up in press on Moss, he juked outside and burst around Revis before Revis even had the chance to turn. He beat Revis from the start. Cromartie was obviously playing Moss deep from the get go, he turns his hips and runs with Moss off the snap. Rather than admit your fault you rather make yourself look completely foolish while the evidence clear as day for everyone to see. Now it's just become pathetic.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

The hilarious thing is that the Pats are NOT doing poorly (yet), yet the lemming homers around here are all hedging their bets about what's going to happen with this season by going to the tried and true "rebuilding" card.

You dont call this rebuilding?
Patriots have the most 1st and 2nd year players starting


http://nfl.fanhouse....-in-full-swing/

Team
Full-time /Part-time
New England: 6 / 5
Indianapolis: 4 / 1
Miami: 3 / 3
New York Jets: 3 / 0
San Diego: 3 / 1
Houston: 3 / 2
Pittsburgh: 2 / 1
Kansas City: 2 / 2
Cincinnati: 1 / 4
Baltimore: 1 / 0
Tennessee: 1 /


Mike Reiss (MikeReiss) on Twitter

@MikeReiss: Patriots president Jonathan Kraft talking young defense on pre-game show on 98.5 The Sports Hub. 50% of team's snaps from players under 25.

@MikeReiss: Jonathan Kraft says the league average this year is 23% of defensive snaps for players under 25. With youth, comes learning curve.

 

[USCPatriot]

Re: I Dont Get It

He's debating with a half dozen different people but not really persuading anyone else. He has never criticized this management ever, and always makes threads supporting management after any big move.

He's trying to prove that he is right, if you get into a debate its USUALLY with no more than 2 people, discussing their opinion, which usually ends in a couple agreeing to disagree. I never said he was criticizing management, merely acting like he WAS management, when he is NOT. Management is NOT always right. If he is having a "debate" with half a dozen different people, what is that really telling you? That's A LOT of debating "just to debate".

Are you saying that Moss was giving 100% and after 3 years of making him the center point of the offense, BB decide the best role for him was to not be on the team? You can't really think that Moss was bought into this team but BB saw no value in him, can you?

lol I didn't agree nor disagree with any of that. I merely stated that you don't know how to keep your mouth shut and just say "Maybe I am wrong". It goes both ways too, the other person should also be able to say it. You don't know anymore than I do, yet you INSIST on trying to prove that Randy was NOT giving us %100, and Randy this, and Randy that.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: I Dont Get It

Yeah it's just funny as hell because you see certain people around here basically giving up on the season already, justifying it saying we are in full re-building mode. How original. Doesn't every team's fans basically say the same thing when their team is doing poorly, has a major injury, etc?

The hilarious thing is that the Pats are NOT doing poorly (yet), yet the lemming homers around here are all hedging their bets about what's going to happen with this season by going to the tried and true "rebuilding" card.

The Pats are rebuilding, but they were also rebuilding in 2001. Guess it depends on how you define the term, but in the salary cap era there are rarely any teams that are so dominant that a rebuilding team can't compete.

I definitely agree with you though that the "X was worth it because we weren't going to win the SB anyways" comments are strange. I'm sure that it's news to Belichick that they're not in the hunt for the Super Bowl.

 

[Synovia]

Re: I Dont Get It

He didn't want to be a 35 y/o WR looking for a new contract who hadn't played in a year. If the Pats weren't going to give him a contract, he wanted to play for someone who would. I'm not going to begrudge him that: he wouldn't have foreseen the lockout when he signed his extension with the Pats, and that changed things. If the Pats had given him a better alternative, we can only guess that he probably would have been fine.

It's a business when the Pats cut a player who's under contract, and I don't hold that against the team. Likewise, I don't hold it against Moss that he has a family and a post-football career to look out for. He gave us one historic year and 2 other great ones, so I'd much rather thank him for the 50 TDs and hope the team can pull together and do fine without him.

Exactly. What Moss did was much better than what Wilfork did: He never threatned to hold out, he just went out and played.

 

[goheels22002]

Re: I Dont Get It

Randy Moss also burned down an orphanage, pissed in Belichick's cornflakes every morning before gameday, hit and killed two nuns during a DUI, joined Westborough Baptist Church, and gave Rex Ryan our playbook this season. No wonder he was traded.

It's just like the local media to look past this sort of behavior by professional athletes. If EEI hadn't fired him for breaking chairs, Pete "The Meat" Shepherd would have been all over the story about joining the Westborough Baptist Church!

 

[shirtsleeve]

Just Stop It Goddamn it!!!!

The Guy Quit on doing things the Patriots Way.

Dead.

He is DEAD to me. More than the Vin-A-Traitor!

END. OF. DISCUSSION!!!

 

[Synovia]

The Guy Quit on doing things the Patriots Way.

Dead.!!

Just like Vince Wilfork did this year. And Welker will do next year.

 

[goheels22002]

Wow, you really need glasses.
Draw a line fromt he middle of Cromarties chest to the sideline. What is the angle? 45 degrees like I have ben saying all along. If he was fully turned you couldnt see his numbers and his shoulders would be 90 degrees to the sideline. Wow. YOu just gave video evidence you are wrong and cant even recognize what you see.,

In frame 3 Moss front foot is ahead of Cromarties back foot, hence the less than a step (1 called it a hal step) difference.
Note that Moss has gained about 2 yards on Cromartie in these 3 frames and from this point until they reappear he loses 2.
You just showed exactly what I have been saying.


Are you out of your mind? Look at frame 3. This is when Brady decides to throw. Moss is in a full sprint (or should be) and Cromartie is 45 to the sideline less than a step ahead. Moss has outside leverage. There is no safety at all in the play. That is as cloe to open deep as you can be. Do you really think WRs are beyond the DB by 4 yards past the los? Moss has run 4 yards, Cromartie has run 2 and is turning. You need to watch football. A receiver open deep isnt after he has run 30 yards and has 5 on the db. This is just what a QB is looking for to get the ball to his deep threat. You have shown a textbook example of how a deep pass is supposed to go, and you think it shows something different, because Randy can't do anything wrong.
Go look at the TD and tell me where he is compared to Revis after 4 yards.

[/QUOTE]

If you think this is good, wait til you see the Zapruder film! Give it a rest. He's the best receiver the Pats ever had, but....

Moss is gone because he put himself and his stupid contract ahead of all other considerations. At 33 he's supposed to help the younger players and lead by example, not model petulance and egocentricity.

If he wanted out or to rid himself of the Franchise Tag or get a new contract he should have held out and manned up like Mankins, Wilfork, Branch, Samuel etc. Instead he acts like a petulant whiner during and after events honoring teammates and important wins. Good riddance.

 

[Synovia]

If he wanted out or to rid himself of the Franchise Tag or get a new contract he should have held out and manned up like Mankins, Wilfork, Branch, Samuel etc. Instead he acts like a petulant whiner during and after events honoring teammates and important wins. Good riddance.

So, you'd rather have your star players holding out, than being out there doing their jobs well?

 

[goheels22002]

So, you'd rather have your star players holding out, than being out there doing their jobs well?

Yes. It is the only leverage the players have in the year before their contract is over in a sport where their careers can be over in one play. None of us like it but that is the way it is for players.

Vince Wilfork is the best example. During the off-season he played hardball with the Pats, made his dissatisfaction with his deal known privately and publicly, forced the Pats to look at options and decide to work something out.

Deon Branch played it right and got the deal he was after in Seattle but didn't create the sort of turmoil Moss is right now.

Read the threads about contract negotiations and Logan Mankins. He is holding out but keeping his mouth shut and being a man about it. He was only a public distraction during the off-season. The Pats calculated that they could fill his spot and that he'd be back before season's end to get his seniority time for this year. They also did not want to give guaranteed money and a long-term deal to an offensive lineman not knowing the 2011-2012 cap and whether they'd even have a season next year. I still think Mankins is making a mistake, but appreciate that he is not detracting from his teammates' season.

Moss chose to take a huge crap on his teammates after the Cincinnati win. He chose to act like a complete jerk at the Wilfork award ceremony. Over the summer he whined at a charity softball event hosted by a teammate. Moss chose to take another crap on his teammates and offensive coach at halftime of a huge, huge win in Miami. Randy Moss should have held out, gotten a new deal or been traded over the summer.

 

[emoney_33]

Moss chose to take a huge crap on his teammates after the Cincinnati win. He chose to act like a complete jerk at the Wilfork award ceremony. Over the summer he whined at a charity softball event hosted by a teammate. Moss chose to take another crap on his teammates and offensive coach at halftime of a huge, huge win in Miami. Randy Moss should have held out, gotten a new deal or been traded over the summer.

Please get a clue. Moss' teammates still loved him as each and every one have genuinely said as much. It was 7-6 at halftime, a disagreement with O'Brien is not "crapping" on your teammates. Now continue on playing with your Moss voodoo doll.