Antonio Cromartie agrees that Moss slacked off against Jets

[Yfz01]

On the first play emoney is correct. Moss is a few steps behind Cromartie the entire time. Looks like a blind throw from Brady.

YouTube - Antonio Cromartie Interception Jets vs Patriots 19.09.2010 ( Week 2 )

The second pass, emoney is once again correct (11.39)
YouTube - NFL on CBS Patriots/Jets highlights Week 2 2010

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Cromartie agrees: Moss slacked off against Jets

"the players" are Revis and Cromartie of the f'ing Jets, you are delusional and you accuse Brady, BB, Faulk, Wilfork etc... of being liars while pimping up Revis and Cromartie just to try to smear Moss. Your logic in the entire situation is terrible because it is based on the idea that Moss forced a trade by playing, but playing crappy on purpose. There is 0 logic in the idea that Moss felt it was best to play but not hard to get what he wanted.

And please answer the Vontae Davis question, I suppose ONLY Revis (getting his hamstring massaged) and Cromartie are the honest people in the NFL. Bailey, Davis, all the Patriots players, BB... they all just lie.

So waht is your theory?
Moss gave it everything he had, and Belichick decided that having the best deep threat in the NFL was useless, and getting a late 3rd pick instead of a 3rd round comp was so much more valuable that it outweighed having a fully committed Randy Moss on the team?
Do you realize how ridiculous that is.
But rather than me repeating my viewpoint, let me ask a question.

Why do you think BB traded Randy Moss?

 

[Yfz01]

Re: Cromartie agrees: Moss slacked off against Jets

So waht is your theory?
Moss gave it everything he had, and Belichick decided that having the best deep threat in the NFL was useless, and getting a late 3rd pick instead of a 3rd round comp was so much more valuable that it outweighed having a fully committed Randy Moss on the team?
Do you realize how ridiculous that is.
But rather than me repeating my viewpoint, let me ask a question.

Why do you think BB traded Randy Moss?

He gave up Richard Seymour, one of the best 3-4 lineman in football for the value of a second rounder.

 

[VinnyPatrollie]

Re: Cromartie agrees: Moss slacked off against Jets

So waht is your theory?
Moss gave it everything he had, and Belichick decided that having the best deep threat in the NFL was useless, and getting a late 3rd pick instead of a 3rd round comp was so much more valuable that it outweighed having a fully committed Randy Moss on the team?
Do you realize how ridiculous that is.
But rather than me repeating my viewpoint, let me ask a question.

Why do you think BB traded Randy Moss?

It's actually a 3rd round pick vs a 5th round comp, but Randy wasn't traded for a draft pick. He's no longer with the team because BB feels the offense will improve with Brady spreading the ball around to his many new targets rather than giving Randy the 10 or so attempts it takes to keep him happy.

 

[emoney_33]

Really..wouldn't posting a copy of the video of the plays be the smoking gun in this silly argument?

YouTube - Antonio Cromartie Interception Jets vs Patriots 19.09.2010 ( Week 2 )

At 0:06 you see Cromartie turn his hips and start running upfield with Moss. Moss is 2 yards passed the LOS and Cromartie's hips are turned. So much for Cromartie turning his hips as Brady throws it...

At 0:09 they come back into camera with the ball in the air and Cromartie still has at least 1 full step on Moss.

At 0:11 you see that Cromartie is completely in front of Moss and Moss cannot just run THROUGH him. Moss makes some brief move to the inside. Not sure what he is seeing/thinking there. He then gets back to tackle Cromartie as he realizes the ball is intercepted. What a dog, he quits on the play but has the audacity to make the tackle.

At 0:25 there's a closeup from the endzone on that last part of the play, the move inside and then the tackle. Still can't be sure of what Moss is doing there but it's possible he was thinking about getting around Cromartie but quickly realized it was too late.

There is never a point on the TV feed where you see Moss with great position. Is it -possible- he could have blown by Cromartie and wasn't run his absolute fastest from the snap? Yes, but there's absolutely no way on earth for us to even begin to decipher that.

Interception #2...
YouTube - NFL on CBS Patriots/Jets highlights Week 2 2010

at 11:37 you see Cromartie INSIDE Moss.
at 11:38 you see Moss make a LEAP and at the end you see his arm 100% outstretched as the ball hits his hand. But it bounces off and as he tries to get it on the 2nd chance, Cromartie recovers and gets between Moss and the ball. It was thrown inside, Moss let Cromartie stumble by with his own momentum as he LEAPED to make an attempt that was almost a GREAT play, but alas he couldn't grab it.
At 11:48 you see a different camera angle as you see Moss leap up to grab the ball that was thrown to the INSIDE (not the outside shoulder as Andy claimed).

Maybe he could have played the ball differently, ran into Cromartie more or something but in real time he doesn't have hindsight message board analysis to determine the absolute optimal way to make the play. In the end this play is 100% effort and almost a great play. To try to nitpick this as a knock on Moss is absolutely ridiculous. The drop in the endzone was on Moss, this one... come the hell on.

 

[Ring 6]

On the first play emoney is correct. Moss is a few steps behind Cromartie the entire time. Looks like a blind throw from Brady.

YouTube - Antonio Cromartie Interception Jets vs Patriots 19.09.2010 ( Week 2 )

Umm, no because Moss isnt in the picture at the decisive time. Watch again. When they leave the picture at about the 40 yard line Moss is about a half stepbehind and Cromartie is still turing his hips.
Somehow Cromarite conpletes the hip turn, and still beats Moss to the ball by 3 steps.
Of course he is ahead of him when they come back into the picture, thats exactly the point I am making.

The second pass, emoney is once again correct (11.39)
YouTube - NFL on CBS Patriots/Jets highlights Week 2 2010

Correct how? Cromartie overruns the play and the ball hits Moss in the hand. If he tries to use 2 hands its a catch.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Cromartie agrees: Moss slacked off against Jets

He gave up Richard Seymour, one of the best 3-4 lineman in football for the value of a second rounder.

No we gave him up for a first that may be a top 5 pick, and chose to take the 1st in 2011 instead of 2010 because there will likely be a rookie cap that doesnt make a top 5 not wrth the cost.

 

[VinnyPatrollie]

Re: Cromartie agrees: Moss slacked off against Jets

He gave up Richard Seymour, one of the best 3-4 lineman in football for the value of a second rounder.

How is a likely top 10 pick only the value of a second rounder? Is it because of the year delay? I'd argue it's MORE valuable as its a stacked first round in 2011 and there will likely be a rookie cap. As such, this could be the highest value ever in an NFL first round draft.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Cromartie agrees: Moss slacked off against Jets

It's actually a 3rd round pick vs a 5th round comp, but Randy wasn't traded for a draft pick. He's no longer with the team because BB feels the offense will improve with Brady spreading the ball around to his many new targets rather than giving Randy the 10 or so attempts it takes to keep him happy.

Why would it be a 5th?

So your opinion is that BB feels we have a better offense without Randy Moss when Randy Moss is giving 100% effort?

 

[Yfz01]

Re: Cromartie agrees: Moss slacked off against Jets

How is a likely top 10 pick only the value of a second rounder? Is it because of the year delay? I'd argue it's MORE valuable as its a stacked first round in 2011 and there will likely be a rookie cap. As such, this could be the highest value ever in an NFL first round draft.

Yeah it's because of the delay. It would have been an early second last season (probably) but instead they got a 2011 first.

Speaking of trades, I think this team would easily be a Superbowl contender if it had Richard Seymour and Randy Moss.

 

[VinnyPatrollie]

Re: Cromartie agrees: Moss slacked off against Jets

Why would it be a 5th?

So your opinion is that BB feels we have a better offense without Randy Moss when Randy Moss is giving 100% effort?

All you get is a 5th for a 10+ year player.

And yes, BB feels the Pats are a better offense AND team without Moss. How the Fack can you argue that? Moss is no longer here, correct? And I'm sure BB knows beter than you or I what level he'd get from Moss when Moss is consistantly getting only one or two touches per game. I would suspect that level to be a number less than 100%

 

[Yfz01]

Umm, no because Moss isnt in the picture at the decisive time. Watch again. When they leave the picture at about the 40 yard line Moss is about a half stepbehind and Cromartie is still turing his hips.
Somehow Cromarite conpletes the hip turn, and still beats Moss to the ball by 3 steps.
Of course he is ahead of him when they come back into the picture, thats exactly the point I am making.



Correct how? Cromartie overruns the play and the ball hits Moss in the hand. If he tries to use 2 hands its a catch.

Moss gets beat by three steps if you're blind. When they come back into the screen, Moss is about a half step behind Cro and trys to get inside position on the overthrown ball. Blaming that on anyone other then Brady makes you look like a playa hater.

How is Moss going to get two hands on that second pass? He has a fully outstretched arm - almost impossible.

 

[Ring 6]

YouTube - Antonio Cromartie Interception Jets vs Patriots 19.09.2010 ( Week 2 )

At 0:06 you see Cromartie turn his hips and start running upfield with Moss. Moss is 2 yards passed the LOS and Cromartie's hips are turned. So much for Cromartie turning his hips as Brady throws it...

When they leave the screen they are virtually step for step and Cromarties hips are at a 45 degree angle.

At 0:09 they come back into camera with the ball in the air and Cromartie still has at least 1 full step on Moss.

Yes. They leave the screen with Moss running straight ahead and Cromartie turned at a 45 degree angle and reappear with Cromartie having gained ground. Case closed.

[quote[At 0:11 you see that Cromartie is completely in front of Moss and Moss cannot just run THROUGH him. Moss makes some brief move to the inside. Not sure what he is seeing/thinking there. He then gets back to tackle Cromartie as he realizes the ball is intercepted. What a dog, he quits on the play but has the audacity to make the tackle. [/quote]
He shoud have beaten Cromartie to the ball so he wouldn't have to run through him.

At 0:25 there's a closeup from the endzone on that last part of the play, the move inside and then the tackle. Still can't be sure of what Moss is doing there but it's possible he was thinking about getting around Cromartie but quickly realized it was too late.

This is long after Moss lost the battle by not giving 00% to the route.

There is never a point on the TV feed where you see Moss with great position. Is it -possible- he could have blown by Cromartie and wasn't run his absolute fastest from the snap? Yes, but there's absolutely no way on earth for us to even begin to decipher that.

When Moss is within a half step of Cromartie and Cromarties hips are at 45 degrees..at about the 40 when they leave the screen, that is a TREMENDOUS advantage. From 07-09 Moss outruns that guy every single time.

Interception #2...
YouTube - NFL on CBS Patriots/Jets highlights Week 2 2010

at 11:37 you see Cromartie INSIDE Moss.
at 11:38 you see Moss make a LEAP and at the end you see his arm 100% outstretched as the ball hits his hand. But it bounces off and as he tries to get it on the 2nd chance, Cromartie recovers and gets between Moss and the ball. It was thrown inside, Moss let Cromartie stumble by with his own momentum as he LEAPED to make an attempt that was almost a GREAT play, but alas he couldn't grab it.
At 11:48 you see a different camera angle as you see Moss leap up to grab the ball that was thrown to the INSIDE (not the outside shoulder as Andy claimed).

Why would you need to AGAIN make up that I said something I didnt unless you knew you were wrong?

Maybe he could have played the ball differently, ran into Cromartie more or something but in real time he doesn't have hindsight message board analysis to determine the absolute optimal way to make the play.

All he had to do was use 2 hands. You are absolving a WR who uses one hand and tips the ball to the defender from any blame in the Int. Isnt his job to catch the ball? Dont they teach you to use 2 hands in pee wee football?
Do you agree now the defender did nothing to impede the catch?

In the end this play is 100% effort and almost a great play. To try to nitpick this as a knock on Moss is absolutely ridiculous. The drop in the endzone was on Moss, this one... come the hell on.

If he used 2 hands its a catch. I know everyone loved the one hand TD catch, but this was the cost of it. Again, effort is using 2 hands to make the catch, not trying to use one to look good and having it backfire.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Cromartie agrees: Moss slacked off against Jets

All you get is a 5th for a 10+ year player.

And yes, BB feels the Pats are a better offense AND team without Moss. How the Fack can you argue that? Moss is no longer here, correct? And I'm sure BB knows beter than you or I what level he'd get from Moss when Moss is consistantly getting only one or two touches per game. I would suspect that level to be a number less than 100%

Moss is not no longer here because the offense is better without him GIVING 100%. He is no longer here because of effort and attitude.
I agree the team is better off without him, but that is because of attitude and effort.
The team is substantially worse off than if it had him here giving 100%.
Which is my point. The reason Moss isnt here is because he abandoned his team in order to get traded.

 

[Ring 6]

Moss gets beat by three steps if you're blind. When they come back into the screen, Moss is about a half step behind Cro and trys to get inside position on the overthrown ball. Blaming that on anyone other then Brady makes you look like a playa hater.

How is Moss going to get two hands on that second pass? He has a fully outstretched arm - almost impossible.

When Brady threw the first pass Moss was even with a turned Cromartie. Its only an overthorw because Moss didnt run the route at 100%

He didnt attempt to get 2 hands on it.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Cromartie agrees: Moss slacked off against Jets

Why do you think BB traded Randy Moss?

A combination of factors

Including but NOT limited to, movement to ball control offense, -sufficient- offensive talent, draft pick for a guy in his last year here, conversations with Moss in private, anything we have no idea of that went on behind the scenes.

 

[emoney_33]

Re: Cromartie agrees: Moss slacked off against Jets

All you get is a 5th for a 10+ year player.

And yes, BB feels the Pats are a better offense AND team without Moss. How the Fack can you argue that? Moss is no longer here, correct? And I'm sure BB knows beter than you or I what level he'd get from Moss when Moss is consistantly getting only one or two touches per game. I would suspect that level to be a number less than 100%

I don't believe he feels that the team is better without Moss, same as without Seymour. You don't trade players for draft picks to get better NOW. BB is acting in accordance with the mission statement of being competitive every year, shorterm and longterm.

 

[emoney_33]

When they leave the screen they are virtually step for step and Cromarties hips are at a 45 degree angle.

At :06 he's haflway turned, at :07 he's fully turned and running completely upfield. You can use the pause button and if I had the time or inclination I'd download the video and get pics posted just so you can stop lying.

Yes. They leave the screen with Moss running straight ahead and Cromartie turned at a 45 degree angle and reappear with Cromartie having gained ground. Case closed.

100% false, again the video is right there and you are the only one still trying to argue it is showing something it isn't.

He shoud have beaten Cromartie to the ball so he wouldn't have to run through him.

Because you say so

Even if Moss "beat" Cromartie to the ball, you do realize that Cromartie would still BE THERE as the ball lands right? Still that doesn't nothing to change the fact that Cromartie has position 100% of the time from any feed you have access to. You really are grasping for straws.

This is long after Moss lost the battle by not giving 00% to the route.

LOL get over yourself Andy, I mean honestly. Stop trying to demand what Moss' effort level was during a play at a time you have 0 video evidence of.

When Moss is within a half step of Cromartie and Cromarties hips are at 45 degrees..at about the 40 when they leave the screen, that is a TREMENDOUS advantage. From 07-09 Moss outruns that guy every single time.

Again, it's 100% factual that Cromartie is completely turned and running upfield as they go out of camera view.

Why would you need to AGAIN make up that I said something I didnt unless you knew you were wrong?

What did I make up? You said these exact words:

And the 2nd Int was a completely catchable back shoulder throw that he treid to get cute on and one hand for the highlight reel.
That doesnt make him a loser, but it made him responsible for that devastating Int.

All he had to do was use 2 hands. You are absolving a WR who uses one hand and tips the ball to the defender from any blame in the Int. Isnt his job to catch the ball? Dont they teach you to use 2 hands in pee wee football?
Do you agree now the defender did nothing to impede the catch?

It's humanly impossible to reach as far with 2 hands as you can with 1. The ball hits his one hand that is 100% completely outstretched. I'm sorry that you wish we had inspector gadget on that play, but that's your problem not reality.

If he used 2 hands its a catch. I know everyone loved the one hand TD catch, but this was the cost of it. Again, effort is using 2 hands to make the catch, not trying to use one to look good and having it backfire.

If Brady throws it to the outside it's a catch. "Effort" is not "using 2 hands". Honestly, you are being beyond absurd now. BEYOND absurd. I suppose he lacked effort on the TD too

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Cromartie agrees: Moss slacked off against Jets

I don't understand what Cromartie and Revis have attempted to achieve. Moss burns Revis and Cromartie shuts him down in the second half only to gloss over his performance and intimate Moss would have smashed him if he tried.

Those Jets players sure are dumb.

 

[USCPatriot]

Says the guy that has fathered over 10 children from at least 7 different women. Yea, he's a reliable source, also coming from the guy that "supposedly" gave up during the 2009 playoff game against the Jets. According to him he DID NOT stop giving 100%, so who's lying? The media or him? Players can't have it both ways, he has NO right to criticize another players effort. He will have his opinion sure, but coming from a guy who has been targeted and given up more yards than Jonathon Wilhite during the past 4 games, he should be worrying about HIS game rather than another players.