Reiss: Mankins demands trade, will not sign RFA tender

[patchick]

Top flight LG candidates who were highly athletic and technically sound but undersized college LT's?? Where'd you get that detailed profile from...the Mankins drafting??

No, from the profile that led me to predict they'd draft Mankins in the first place. (Granted, I thought they'd trade up in the 2nd for him.)

This season I was hoping they would use their first on Pouncey as both Mankins and Koppen insurance and eventually Koppen's replacement. Bill had other priorities.

"Other priorities" kept Bill away from Pouncey? Like the fact that he was drafted 4 spots before the Patriots picked?

If not I was hoping for Asamoah with our late 2nd or if we traded back into the third. Pioli grabbed him early there.

I really liked Asamoah too, but I was picturing him at right guard. And Pouncey at center (where his intelligence and leadership were what made him so valuable). Weren't you, too?

 

[pats63]

Re: Reiss with bad news on Mankins

That doesn't seem low to me AT ALL.

I don't care about the Saints overpaying.

Mankins should worry about his contract, not others. Let's move on to plan B brothers.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Reiss with bad news on Mankins

I've seen people on this board make the argument that Branch and Givens in '06 would've sealed the deal in Indy and possibly won another super bowl. I can't disagree with that.

There's 32 teams. Saying any one player in one year would guarantee a Super bowl is silly, especially two good, but not great receivers.

Super Bowls are won by teams that are competitive year in and out, more often than not.

I don't get it, what's you point?

I'm agreeing with you. You said we might have the replacement on the roster.We have a ton of players who can play guard and or center. Who knows if they can move in?. Dantes done more with less before. Hochstein, Yates?

We paid Wendell extra for the practice squad and have O-berger and Bussey and a supposed equivalent C-G in this years deep draft, on top of kaczur and Connolly.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Re: Reiss with bad news on Mankins

I'm agreeing with you. You said we might have the replacement on the roster.We have a ton of players who can play guard and or center. Who knows if they can move in?. Dantes done more with less before. Hochstein, Yates?

He didn't do much with Yates - that guy was horrible. Hochstein played decent but he wasn't a guy you want playing the entire season.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Reiss with bad news on Mankins

There's 32 teams. Saying any one player in one year would guarantee a Super bowl is silly, especially two good, but not great receivers.

And let's not forget that the team had been pretty ravaged by the flu bug just a couple days earlier. Who knows if they would have even been available to play?

 

[DaBruinz]

branch 'didn't control his own destiny, either, right?'

a guy who makes a stand can shoot his way out of town. all he has to do is say some crap that blows up the bridges and there is no return. if mankins makes his stand in a way that having him around will be a problem, the pats will have to move him.

Wrong. The Pats don't have to move him. In fact, Mankins can rot. Why? Well, first off, by not signing the tender, he's not allowed at the team facilities. Which means that all the working out he's doing, he's doing at his own peril. Meaning if he get's hurt, it's his fault, not the team's.

Also, if he should hold out beyond the 10th week, He doesn't earn his year and the Pats would still retain his rights..

Let him go bull riding full time and see if he makes 7M a year.

 

[patfanken]

I don't have time to ready all 19 pages of this (just the last 2) so if any of my comments are redundant, I apologize in advance.

1. To some degree I sympathize him since he HAS completed his rookie contract. He SHOULD have been a FA THIS off season. Like the Pats of 2008, he was screwed by an anomalous set of rare circumstances that are unlikely to happen again for a long time.

2. What I can't understand is why none of these RFAs aren't recognizing that its their own "union" that is part of the problem. IMHO there should already be a new CBA. The players already get more than 60 percent of all GROSS revenue, unlike almost ANY other business I know of. Its simply greed egotism, and stupidity that has let it go on so long. Somehow for some reason, both sides aren't even really going to TRY and solve this until the very last minute. That's just dumb.

So Mankins's situation is different than say any of the Jets contract problems. He hasn't signed his tender and is thusl a FA in the league's eyes. His problem is that any team that signs him has to give them a 1st and 3rd for the privilege. BUT as an unsigned RFA he can't be fined for missing the mandatory mini camps. So to that end he has my sympathy.

HOWEVER there ARE 2 areas I have a problem with him. First is his claim that the team isn't meeting their promises to give him a long term deal. Its been reported that he has had 5 year deal that averages $7MM/yr and would make him one of the top 5 OGs in the league. I'd say that's about right.

The other thing is that he's pissed that the Pats promised to redo him AFTER the uncapped year, and to my knowledge that would be in 2011, so unless he misspoke, the Pats HAVE done BETTER than what they promised....only I guess its not for enough money

Assuming the worst case, and he's traded like he wants, or just holds out, the Pats DO have a few options. The one I'd like to see is Matt Light slide down to LG and have Volmer replace him at LT. Light who has been a very good, but not great LT, came into the league with the thought he could be a decent OT, but he'd be a "special" OG. He has certainly out performed what most analysts thought about him when he came into the league, but I'd still like to see what he'd be like as a G.

During the OTA's Kazcur has played LG with the first unit in Mankins' Absence. Kazcur has been an excellent run blocker on the right side, but has been abused sometimes by speed rushers. Maybe the move to G would hide that weakness, leaving Volmer (who is a better pass blocker) to play RT.

All that being said I'm hoping Mankins can reach some accord. Frankly paying him top 5 OG money LT would be my limit and clearly THAT hasn't worked, so my fall back position would be to pay give him something like 7-8MM for THIS year with the promise not to franchise him for next season and let him move on THEN, not now.

 

[DaBruinz]

No it isn't. That's about what I would have offered him in my estimate a couple of months ago. The problem here isn't what the Pats offered him. It's when they offered. it. They had the opportunity to set the market and didn't. Now they're feeling the effects of the team and player that did.

You don't know when they offered it. It could have been offered PRIOR to Jahri Evans signing his deal. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it was and Baur sat on it to see what Evans got to try and use it as leverage with the Pats.

But the fact is that the Pats offered Mankins a 5 year deal worth 7 Mil annually. And that is a very good offer for Mankins. For Mankins to claim that the Patriots haven't tried to get a deal done is an outright lie by him. Plain and simple.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Reiss with bad news on Mankins

He didn't do much with Yates - that guy was horrible. Hochstein played decent but he wasn't a guy you want playing the entire season.

I'm using them as an example of depth and starters we had formerly. No one really knows what O-berger and Bussey can do, but i bet they, and some combination of Connolly, Wendell, Kaczur and Larsen have some potential. Hochstein started 30 games (10 with Denver, which puts our panic in perspective).

Come draft time, all our players suck and all our draft picks are great. Come free agency, all our players are irreplaceable, and all the former great draft picks are busts, even if they spent the year on IR and we haven't seen them.

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: Reiss with bad news on Mankins

Except for the fact that whenever the Pats save money, they usually don't spend it all. Remember when Brady took a hometown discount when he signed his big contract only to see that his WRs were Caldwell and Gaffney.

That is FALSE. Hell, it's not even remotely close to the truth. Do yourself a favor and learn wtf you are talking about before posting..

Brady made 37.5 million in the first 3 years of the contract that expires this year when he signed it in June 2005. Branch was still under contract and they had tried to retain Givens as well, but Givens chose a deal that would have paid him a few million more..

They had signed Caldwell to be a No.2 opposite Branch.. Not be the number one.

 

[jczxohn1]

They need a replacement or Brady will get killed.

Yeah, he did such a great job against Tuck in the SB.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Also, if he should hold out beyond the 10th week, He doesn't earn his year and the Pats would still retain his rights..

Actually, that's the one thing that we can't be entirely sure of: it might depend on what UFA rules are in place in a new CBA. For example, the existing rules might stay in place (keeping him an RFA) or they might revert to the old rules (which, since Mankins has five seasons in the league, would make him a UFA rather than an RFA).

 

[DaBruinz]

Actually, that's the one thing that we can't be entirely sure of: it might depend on what UFA rules are in place in a new CBA. For example, the existing rules might stay in place (keeping him an RFA) or they might revert to the old rules (which, since Mankins has five seasons in the league, would make him a UFA rather than an RFA).

Actually, I can be sure of it. Mankins rights will continue to be owned by the Patriots until he fulfills his obligations as a restricted free agent, the Pats cut him, or he signs the tender and the Pats trade him. A new CBA won't change that because it was not what was in place when Mankins was made an RFA. What matters is the rules at the time that the Pats made the RFA tender offer, guaranteeing their rights to Mankins.

 

[Deus Irae]

You don't know when they offered it. It could have been offered PRIOR to Jahri Evans signing his deal. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if it was and Baur sat on it to see what Evans got to try and use it as leverage with the Pats.

But the fact is that the Pats offered Mankins a 5 year deal worth 7 Mil annually. And that is a very good offer for Mankins. For Mankins to claim that the Patriots haven't tried to get a deal done is an outright lie by him. Plain and simple.

The offer's actual value is not a fact. It's a number gotten by a reporter from an anonymous "league source", and it disagrees with what the agent has stated. We don't actually know what the offer was. We also don't know about structure, penalty clauses, etc...

 

[Deus Irae]

Also, if he should hold out beyond the 10th week, He doesn't earn his year and the Pats would still retain his rights..

That is not necessarily correct. His future status as a 6th year player would be determined by whatever CBA gets put in place. Since it's not likely that a new CBA will have 6th year players remaining as RFAs, it's quite possible that Mankins would become a UFA.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Actually, I can be sure of it. Mankins rights will continue to be owned by the Patriots until he fulfills his obligations as a restricted free agent, the Pats cut him, or he signs the tender and the Pats trade him. A new CBA won't change that because it was not what was in place when Mankins was made an RFA. What matters is the rules at the time that the Pats made the RFA tender offer, guaranteeing their rights to Mankins.

Not if both sides agree to something different (e.g., a specific clause releasing any such RFAs and making them UFAs).

It's like talk about franchising player X in 2011—it's likely, but we can't say for sure it'll be allowed by the new CBA.

 

[ALP]

teddy was on SC talking about mankins and revis

he seems to think for mankins to talk the way he is, hes set his mind, and its a pretty sure fire idea that he wont play again as a pat

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

"After the 2008 season, me and my agent approached the Patriots about an extension and I was told that Mr. Kraft did not want to do an extension because of the [uncertain collective bargaining agreement]," Mankins said. "I was asked to play '09 out, and that they would address the contract during the uncapped year. I'm a team player, I took them at their word, and I felt I played out an undervalued contract.

Im confused. Where are the Pats breaking their word? They are trying to get a contract done with him, exactly when they said they would. So, because its not as much as Mankins wants, he's going to call them liars to the press?

I like Mankins (despite his SB performance), and i'm ok with 6.5 mil a year. I'm ok with a player wanting more, and holding out for it. Im NOT OK, with players shooting their mouths off to the press, and bad mouthing the team. I will privately ask my boss for more money whenever i want, but i would never take out an ad in the local paper telling the world that my boss is a liar, and wont give me what i think im worth........im pretty sure i would be unemployed the next day.

So Mankins, thanks but have fun with your new team. I no longer respect you. (not that i think you care what i think)

 

[Nikolai]

he seems to think for mankins to talk the way he is, hes set his mind, and its a pretty sure fire idea that he wont play again as a pat

This. Some people misunderstand that bridges have already been burned. There is no going back. Had Mankins not run to the media, there would still be a chance to work this out, but by doing so, he has (perhaps even intentionally) punched his ticket out of New England.

Done. Finis. Gemacht. Whatever, it's over.

 

[JoeShmoe]

This. Some people misunderstand that bridges have already been burned. There is no going back. Had Mankins not run to the media, there would still be a chance to work this out, but by doing so, he has (perhaps even intentionally) punched his ticket out of New England.

Done. Finis. Gemacht. Whatever, it's over.

Tend to agree. Bill and the FO havent in the past been held to ransom by language like this. The Vince way of show up, stay quiet and work it out is their way

He's done here is my guess so we'd be best looking to see what we can get. Maybe STL or the Lions will cough up a 2nd to protect their new QB's

Moving on it will be interesting to see Kazcur and Light on the left side. If its bad as it might be god help Tommy