Are the Patriots a 3rd place team?

[BradyFTW!]

No I did not say they suck, I see the jets and dolphins make some good improvements , and improve enough that the division is no longer a lock... Besides a solid draft and re sign quailty players what did we do, where we can say we are the clear cut fav??? Right now I see more talent on the jets defense then the pats defense, but the Pats have the better HC and QB.. The dolphins have a better running game than the pats, but i think we are even with them in WR and also better in hc and QB...

But you do know last year we lost to both mediocre jets and dolphins teams , and they have improved you have to admit that... But I guess its just common here that when your not saying everything is hunky dory in Pats land , pats fans must fight with other pats fans...

Boy I also remember in 2008 how everyone here was stoked about Whilhite and Wheatly, how is that working out??? And lets not forget about Shaun Crable the solution to the lb problems... So nothing is a given, the only given is the jets and dolphins have added people that have played at a nfl level, while we have added youth, which most times leads to a challenge in the early stages of a season...

The only reason why the division ever was a lock to begin with was because all three rivals were incompetent. The Jets and Dolphins have since taken positive steps, so the division was going to stop being a lock no matter what the Pats did or didn't do. All that matters at this point is that we're still heavily in the competition and, IMO, we're the favorites. Don't buy the Jets' hype just yet: remember when they got Favre and suddenly they were going to destroy us? They do this every couple of years: bottom line is that until it shows up on the field, I hesitate to totally buy it.

 

[Intommywetrst]

2 interesting Tweets today:

Damien Woody (OL for the Jets if you didn't know)

@damienwoody Man, it was like a day of mourning at work today

Darius Butler

@dariusbutler28 I love my job!

 

[blackglass3]

2 interesting Tweets today:

Damien Woody (OL for the Jets if you didn't know)

@damienwoody Man, it was like a day of mourning at work today

Darius Butler

@dariusbutler28 I love my job!

LOL! Yep, that is pretty much how I am expecting their seasons to go this year.

NYJ = Crash And Burn

 

[Ring 6]

No I did not say they suck, I see the jets and dolphins make some good improvements , and improve enough that the division is no longer a lock... Besides a solid draft and re sign quailty players what did we do, where we can say we are the clear cut fav??? Right now I see more talent on the jets defense then the pats defense, but the Pats have the better HC and QB.. The dolphins have a better running game than the pats, but i think we are even with them in WR and also better in hc and QB...

But you do know last year we lost to both mediocre jets and dolphins teams , and they have improved you have to admit that... But I guess its just common here that when your not saying everything is hunky dory in Pats land , pats fans must fight with other pats fans...

Boy I also remember in 2008 how everyone here was stoked about Whilhite and Wheatly, how is that working out??? And lets not forget about Shaun Crable the solution to the lb problems... So nothing is a given, the only given is the jets and dolphins have added people that have played at a nfl level, while we have added youth, which most times leads to a challenge in the early stages of a season...

If you are CLEARLY LIGHT YEARS BEHIND (your words) a 9-7 team that only was over .500 because of a gift and a below .500 7-9 team, you suck.
What improvements did the Jets and Dolphins make? NET improvements.
They would have to be substantial if they have clearly moved light years ahead of us.
Other than retain our players and have a good draft? Well, those 2 teams didnt do that.
But we signed 2 potential starting RDEs, we signed a TE, we signed a HOF WR.
How does the fact that we split with them both make them both CLEARLY LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF US?

Stop being the 12 year old girl crying that every time you say something stupid it must mean that everyone would disagree with anything negative.
There are a lot of negative comments that are accepted every day on this board, don't insult the intelligent posters who make valid points by lumping your stupidity in with it.

Please explain, after you have detailed all these fabulous improvements you see in the Jets and Dolphins why any positive comments made about Wheatley, Wilhite or Crable have any bearing an analysis of where the Patriots are today.
See, I don't see anyone acting as if one guy makes all the difference in the world, except you who think that WRs win games all by themselves (when in fact the opposite is true) so you think that signing a headcase diva WR is all that matters.

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

2 interesting Tweets today:

Damien Woody (OL for the Jets if you didn't know)

@damienwoody Man, it was like a day of mourning at work today

Darius Butler

@dariusbutler28 I love my job!

Very telling! Another reason to watch Hard Knocks.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

I actually think it'll be Pats, Fins, Jest in that order. The Fins draft was way more impressive than the Jest and, as has been explained earlier in the thread, the supposed improvements the Jest made this offseason are more impressive in name value than actual improvement over the previous player.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

If you are CLEARLY LIGHT YEARS BEHIND (your words) a 9-7 team that only was over .500 because of a gift and a below .500 7-9 team, you suck.
What improvements did the Jets and Dolphins make? NET improvements.
They would have to be substantial if they have clearly moved light years ahead of us.
Other than retain our players and have a good draft? Well, those 2 teams didnt do that.
But we signed 2 potential starting RDEs, we signed a TE, we signed a HOF WR.
How does the fact that we split with them both make them both CLEARLY LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF US?

Stop being the 12 year old girl crying that every time you say something stupid it must mean that everyone would disagree with anything negative.
There are a lot of negative comments that are accepted every day on this board, don't insult the intelligent posters who make valid points by lumping your stupidity in with it.

Please explain, after you have detailed all these fabulous improvements you see in the Jets and Dolphins why any positive comments made about Wheatley, Wilhite or Crable have any bearing an analysis of where the Patriots are today.
See, I don't see anyone acting as if one guy makes all the difference in the world, except you who think that WRs win games all by themselves (when in fact the opposite is true) so you think that signing a headcase diva WR is all that matters.

Your pointless to argue with, if you think Torry Holt is awnser to the third wr... So I hope for a good season, but my expectations are low.. so if we win more than 9 I will be very happy... Not like you obviously...

 

[SyN65]

No. It's a battle for 1st place between the Jets and the Patriots. Honestly it's hard to choose one over the other, the Jets are stacked in everything except QB.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

If you are CLEARLY LIGHT YEARS BEHIND (your words) a 9-7 team that only was over .500 because of a gift and a below .500 7-9 team, you suck.
What improvements did the Jets and Dolphins make? NET improvements.
They would have to be substantial if they have clearly moved light years ahead of us.
Other than retain our players and have a good draft? Well, those 2 teams didnt do that.
But we signed 2 potential starting RDEs, we signed a TE, we signed a HOF WR.
How does the fact that we split with them both make them both CLEARLY LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF US?

Stop being the 12 year old girl crying that every time you say something stupid it must mean that everyone would disagree with anything negative.
There are a lot of negative comments that are accepted every day on this board, don't insult the intelligent posters who make valid points by lumping your stupidity in with it.

Please explain, after you have detailed all these fabulous improvements you see in the Jets and Dolphins why any positive comments made about Wheatley, Wilhite or Crable have any bearing an analysis of where the Patriots are today.
See, I don't see anyone acting as if one guy makes all the difference in the world, except you who think that WRs win games all by themselves (when in fact the opposite is true) so you think that signing a headcase diva WR is all that matters.

And if you want to start calling people stupid, you must be 12... Really , do you have to be like that on opinon of a team that both you and I are fans of... grow up...

 

[Rexorcism]

If you are CLEARLY LIGHT YEARS BEHIND (your words) a 9-7 team that only was over .500 because of a gift and a below .500 7-9 team, you suck.
What improvements did the Jets and Dolphins make? NET improvements.
They would have to be substantial if they have clearly moved light years ahead of us.
Other than retain our players and have a good draft? Well, those 2 teams didnt do that.
But we signed 2 potential starting RDEs, we signed a TE, we signed a HOF WR.
How does the fact that we split with them both make them both CLEARLY LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF US?

Stop being the 12 year old girl crying that every time you say something stupid it must mean that everyone would disagree with anything negative.
There are a lot of negative comments that are accepted every day on this board, don't insult the intelligent posters who make valid points by lumping your stupidity in with it.

Please explain, after you have detailed all these fabulous improvements you see in the Jets and Dolphins why any positive comments made about Wheatley, Wilhite or Crable have any bearing an analysis of where the Patriots are today.
See, I don't see anyone acting as if one guy makes all the difference in the world, except you who think that WRs win games all by themselves (when in fact the opposite is true) so you think that signing a headcase diva WR is all that matters.

A team with a rookie QB, rookie HC and many new additions does have some growing pains.

The Jets gave away a few games last year due to these problems. Saints - Sanchez dug a hole they couldnt climb out of, Buffalo - Sanchez again sinks them, Miami 1st time - Rex fails to take a timeout on their final drive letting them get a chance for the win and get it, Miami 2nd time - Greene loses a fumble that goes for a TD and special teams has a meltdown, not to mention sputtering against Atlanta and Jacksonville, two poorly played games that veteran teams win.

Bottom line is yes the Jets got lucky to get into the playoffs but they still had a better season than many of you are giving them credit for. The D only really got blown out twice all season, against the Pats in foxboro and against the Colts. I still fully expect the Pats to be the title favorites since they play good sound football but if the Jets and even Fins stop shooting themselves in the foot then it could go to anybody.

 

[Lockdown24]

patriots rule, jets drool

 

[AJY the Jets troll]

We will def be better than the Dolfags and will be fighting Rex Ryan for the division through week 17.

 

[Ring 6]

Your pointless to argue with, if you think Torry Holt is awnser to the third wr... So I hope for a good season, but my expectations are low.. so if we win more than 9 I will be very happy... Not like you obviously...

Thats because you arent arguing with me. You are ignoring all of my comments and questions.
How is it an argument if I ask such a point blank question as:

What did the 9-7(with a gift) Jets and 7-9 Dolphins do to make themselves CLEARLY LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Patriots?

See, I will answer yours.
Torry Holt caught 51 passes last year in a dysfunctional offense with an awful QB. He caught 64 the year before, with an even worse QB situation, unless you think 56% complete for 5.1 ypa is the kind of passing game he will be in with Tom Brady. Before that he caught 90+ 6 years in a row.

Now, you are saying that it is POINTLESS to consider Holt a viable option as the 3rd WR after he caught those 51 passes from David Garrard.
So, lets look at how many catches OUR 3rd WR has had in our offense.

2009 37
2008 38
2007 46 YES THATS 46 CATCHES FOR THE 3RD WR IN THE BEST OFFENSE EVER--GOD HOW CAN WE SURVIVE WITH A SLUG WHO CAN ONLY CATCH 51 FROM DAVID GARRARD
2006 25
2005 39
2004 35
2003 34
2002 43
2001 14

So Holt, last year with Garrard at QB caught more passes than ANY 3RD WR TOM BRADY HAS EVER HAD, but apparently its idiotic to assume he can be the 3rd WR?????????

Please, go ahead, argue. Refute those 2 topics.
See, I am very easy to argue with. I give you my position in great detail and show exactly what I think and what I base my opinion on. If your opinion is so much more sound than mine, it should be easy to prove:

1) What the Jets did to go from 8-7 plus a gift to CLEARLY LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF THE PATS
2) What the Dolphins did to go from A LOSING TEAM to CLEARLY LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF THE PATS
3) Why a guy who caught more passes last year, plus every year before that, than any 3rd WR we have ever had, from a worse QB, can't fill our #3 WR spot.If fact that I am stupid to think so.

 

[Ring 6]

And if you want to start calling people stupid, you must be 12... Really , do you have to be like that on opinon of a team that both you and I are fans of... grow up...

I didnt call you stupid, I said your comment that
THE JETS AND DOLPHINS (among others) ARE CLEARLY LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF THE PATRIOTS WAS STUPID. Do you disagree?

 

[Ring 6]

A team with a rookie QB, rookie HC and many new additions does have some growing pains.

The Jets gave away a few games last year due to these problems. Saints - Sanchez dug a hole they couldnt climb out of, Buffalo - Sanchez again sinks them, Miami 1st time - Rex fails to take a timeout on their final drive letting them get a chance for the win and get it, Miami 2nd time - Greene loses a fumble that goes for a TD and special teams has a meltdown, not to mention sputtering against Atlanta and Jacksonville, two poorly played games that veteran teams win.

Bottom line is yes the Jets got lucky to get into the playoffs but they still had a better season than many of you are giving them credit for. The D only really got blown out twice all season, against the Pats in foxboro and against the Colts. I still fully expect the Pats to be the title favorites since they play good sound football but if the Jets and even Fins stop shooting themselves in the foot then it could go to anybody.

Fair response, but by the same token we could say:
We easy beat Houston if we didnt bench everyone.
We got a bad spot in Indy and if we didnt the game was over.
Denver and Miami were games we had late leads and before last year we were something like 63-1.
So that would add up to 14-2 if I can use the excuses.

The point is that you can take a lot of teams and find reasons that they could have done better, but those reasons are part of why you are good or bad. There really is no evidence that teams that lose close games or lose games for specific reasons improve the next season.

My biggest issue is that somehow there is this idea being floated that the Jets upgraded their entire roster, and really, they brought in some players, lost others, and for the most part they are similar players and the net result is neglible, plus you added a WR to an offense that doesnt throw the ball, or fails when it does.

 

[spacecrime]

Your pointless to argue with, if you think Torry Holt is awnser to the third wr... So I hope for a good season, but my expectations are low.. so if we win more than 9 I will be very happy.....

Interesting. I've heard of people who are only happy when they are miserable. So if you fuss and whine and expect the very worst for months, you can be happy for a few minutes when you are proven wrong?

The only mistake you make is assuming that people with high expectations are unhappy when they aren't met, but that isn't true. happy for months, disapppointed for a few days, then happily hopeful for more months.

It beats the hell out of setting low expectations to avoid being disappointed. Set a high bar sometime. Disappointment isn't bad, and it only lasts for a few days, as long as you can say, "Wait'll next year."

Tory Holt will make an awesome #3.

 

[Deus Irae]

I know many here think the Big O is a Big Zero, but he just finished debunking that same idiotic value misperception on his show... That's why all the silly love for Felger's objectivity makes me chuckle...

Actually, Belichick came on later and explained it. Ordway & Company were wrong with what they had been saying, in at least 2 important ways. The people complaining about the "value" moves have been arguably closer to what Belichick's thought process is than those who've been defending value without thinking it through.

 

[Deus Irae]

Well, Matt is the reason I hate the big show because they should have cut him off right when he showed he was a moron, but that is another argument for another thread.

Matt did a piss poor job of explaining his point, that's all. Take Brady out of the following, since he was a 6th round pick and wouldn't apply to my point, which will involve the high round picks:

In the Belichick era, who are the best players he's drafted?

 

[Rexorcism]

My biggest issue is that somehow there is this idea being floated that the Jets upgraded their entire roster, and really, they brought in some players, lost others, and for the most part they are similar players and the net result is neglible, plus you added a WR to an offense that doesnt throw the ball, or fails when it does.

I brought up those games because I thought that a more experienced team could have won those games and I hope thats what the Jets are this year.

I think the roster at this point has a bit of upside over last year. I think the secondary should be better, the O line probably a bit worse at least in the early part of the season, WR core better when Santonio gets in, RBs I will say slightly worse for now just for the benefit of the doubt and the D line better with Jenks and the LB core better with a full year of Pace and JT.

Also, the passing game looked pretty good in the playoffs so I think their could be promise this year. All depends on the 2nd year of Sanchez.

Overall it means nothing unless they win and thats why until then I say the Pats are the favorites simply because they consistently win. Its as simple as that.

 

[Lockdown24]

Thats because you arent arguing with me. You are ignoring all of my comments and questions.
How is it an argument if I ask such a point blank question as:

What did the 9-7(with a gift) Jets and 7-9 Dolphins do to make themselves CLEARLY LIGHT YEARS ahead of the Patriots?

See, I will answer yours.
Torry Holt caught 51 passes last year in a dysfunctional offense with an awful QB. He caught 64 the year before, with an even worse QB situation, unless you think 56% complete for 5.1 ypa is the kind of passing game he will be in with Tom Brady. Before that he caught 90+ 6 years in a row.

Now, you are saying that it is POINTLESS to consider Holt a viable option as the 3rd WR after he caught those 51 passes from David Garrard.
So, lets look at how many catches OUR 3rd WR has had in our offense.

2009 37
2008 38
2007 46 YES THATS 46 CATCHES FOR THE 3RD WR IN THE BEST OFFENSE EVER--GOD HOW CAN WE SURVIVE WITH A SLUG WHO CAN ONLY CATCH 51 FROM DAVID GARRARD
2006 25
2005 39
2004 35
2003 34
2002 43
2001 14

So Holt, last year with Garrard at QB caught more passes than ANY 3RD WR TOM BRADY HAS EVER HAD, but apparently its idiotic to assume he can be the 3rd WR?????????

Please, go ahead, argue. Refute those 2 topics.
See, I am very easy to argue with. I give you my position in great detail and show exactly what I think and what I base my opinion on. If your opinion is so much more sound than mine, it should be easy to prove:

1) What the Jets did to go from 8-7 plus a gift to CLEARLY LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF THE PATS
2) What the Dolphins did to go from A LOSING TEAM to CLEARLY LIGHT YEARS AHEAD OF THE PATS
3) Why a guy who caught more passes last year, plus every year before that, than any 3rd WR we have ever had, from a worse QB, can't fill our #3 WR spot.If fact that I am stupid to think so.

what did the pats do to maintain they're dominance? the jets have constructed a feared secondary and continued to add weapons for sanchez. the phins added one of the best WR's in the league and a great LB in Carlos Dansby. lets assume these moves amount to nothing. the pats went 10-6 last year and the key cog in the offense (welker) is now a huge question mark. moss knows he's gone and you better hope he doesn't act like he did near the end of his raider's tenure. you just let your best pure pass rusher walk because BB didn't know how to deploy him effectively. you still didn't find anyone in the draft to rush the passer or carry the rock.

i gotta say, as a jets fan, this is the first season in a decade that I don't think the pats are just gonna kick our ass and have their way with the division. i'm wondering what has you guys so confident and if you know something I don't because at the very least, i figured you would be a little nervous for the first time in a long time...