Moss: "I don't think they going to extend my contract here"

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Moss:"I don't think they going to extend my contract here"

Except what Brady was really saying there is that he feels all football players are underpaid given what they're asked to do, which is to essentially put their bodies on the line week in and week out. What Moss said was that the Patriots (not the NFL in general) underpay people. He ignored a couple of things. The first is that he's due to earn $9 million for his services this season. The second is Tom Brady's contract. The third was Adalius Thomas' contract. Shall I go on? On top of that, he also ignored the fact that Patriots players on the current roster aren't "supposed" to air dirty laundry to the media. If I'm not mistaken, it's been that way since Belichick got here.

I'll be happy to bump this thread a year from now if/when Moss balks at the Pats' contract offer and opens his mouth again. I have a feeling the reactions will be amusing when compared to this thread.

Right, but those words came out of Brady's mouth (emphasis yours). That's the point: that without knowing the actual context of the statement, it's very, very hard to speculate as to what a player actually meant. Moss said a lot of positive things, a lot of realistic things, and one or two negative things. I've already said that I'm pissed about the negative things, but I'm also willing to give him the benefit of the doubt since he's been a good soldier for the Pats for 3+ years.

I can't tell you what to do, obviously, but I'd definitely recommend that you chill out, let Moss play out his contract year, and enjoy the ride. If you think that FAs aren't going to sign their contract offers because Randy Moss implied that maybe they won't get re-upped at market value 5 years later, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

 

[RyanP421]

Re: Moss:"I don't think they going to extend my contract here"

In every quote you posted, there's only one part that can even remotely be construed as a spin. That is this quote...

Though Moss was still careful to say he plans to play for the Pats in 2010, why would he want to be there if he thinks that he won't be there beyond the coming season?

This is considering the fact that Randy has already said he will play out his contract this season. The Wilfork quote is pure speculation, as is his "lame duck" year quote (which could be taken seriously given his history with the Faiders). However, and I want to make this perfectly clear, it's not Florio's quotes I'm concerned about. It seems that people are just punting to his quotes because they don't have an explanation for what Moss said. What I'm concerned about is Moss' quotes. And that's what the conversation should be about.

Great. But you kept saying there was no spin in that article, and it is FILLED with spin. Yeah Moss said some things. He said the Pats don't pay, and you said that is basically saying the Pats are cheap. Moss DIDN'T say cheap, you put that word in his mouth. Maybe he meant it, and he sure could have, but he didn't say it, you did.

And he didn't say he would dog the year like Florio claimed. SPIN.

He didn't say he wanted to be traded. SPIN.

This article is filled with disturbing qoutes (some in fact true) from Moss AND a crap load of spin. Not one or the other the way you claim. But BOTH.

And about the qoutes from Moss, the disturbing part is that he's talking to the media about it. The Pats DON'T shell out overpriced contracts, he didn't tell us anything new there. And about your claiming he basically meant the Pats are cheap, couldnt you go the other way and say he BASICALLY meant the Pats just don't overpay?

To say there is no spin here, is just dumb IMO, no offense.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Re: Moss:"I don't think they going to extend my contract here"

Like so many others in this thread, you're missing the point. The number one negative comment leveled at this team is that they are cheap. It is one thing for ex-players to say it. It sounds like sour grapes coming from them. It's also one thing for fans and messageboard critics and the media to say it. It's a completely different animal for a current player, still under contract for $9 million to say it. The biggest gripe that I and others have with it is that he took it to the media. That's a big no-no. The media now has the ammunition they need to bring this up again and again during the season if things aren't going swimmingly for the team. In reality, he should have just kept his mouth shut.

1. We might have preferred he kept his mouth shut. It is certainly what we're used to. It's the team ethos and all that, and it's what we expect.

1a. Mitigating factor: Over and over again he kept saying "no disrespect intended" etc.

1b. The content of what he said was, "I will want a big payday. The Pats are unlikely to deliver one." He's more than likely right.

1c. However he placed that decision exactly where it belongs, on the team. He just recognized he's not likely to get the money he'll want in N.E.

2. That could be just idle talk, but I doubt it.

2a. A stellar '10 means he has set the stage for a "cross your fingers and pray for an extension" campaign. If '10 is like '07, you don't think an army of fans won't come out of the woodwork clamoring for his re-signing, whatever the cost?

2b. Failing that, a good '10 combined with the early broadside announces, "if you've got the money, yes I'll be out there -- no loyalty bonus"

I found the way he phrased his statement professional and businesslike, and actually quite non-egotistical. Everybody know the Pats aren't the guys to go to for top dollar at the elite end, unless you're the absolute cornerstone (i.e. Tom Brady) of the team.

So to your "main point," it's an unwritten rule that a Patriot doesn't put that crap out into the media. Well wah. What are they gonna do, cut him? Preferable if he displays that discipline we're all accustomed to, of course. Of course, there's a question out there: how did the Pats ever develop that culture anyway? I doubt you can express contractually every possible situation regarding the media. I think it is voluntary self-discipline. Way easier to have when your team is a bunch of nobodies seeing the way out of irrelevance like nine years ago, than when you have a few high-dollar guys, many of them imports who see the biz through the filter of experiences around the league.

As in many things we may not have known how magical the 2001-2004 years were. What may have been unthinkable then is thinkable now. We're post-Seymour, post-Deion. Our "media attention cherry" is long-ago popped. More people on the current team put up with the fairly baseless national hatred that set in in earnest in 07 than ever got a ring w/the Pats. Lots of the veteran leadership/"locker-room mafia" is gone, as you point out... well, if it was always self-policed, that sort of implies it can dissipate with no recourse on the part of the team. I noticed AD making comments in a similar vein during the season, I think... maybe that's normal behavior for a lot of high-priced FAs.

Not arguing that it's definitely been one key of success, to avoid unnecessarily dragging in the press. But who has the authority to enforce that? I mean, if it came from BB, wouldn't that be viewed as insanely hypocritical?

If it's to come from within, you have to cross your fingers and hope when they see or "feel" a possible advantage in blabbing a little, they remind themselves of what the "team" expects (even when you're relaxing in the offseason.)

I dunno. Seems like something to enjoy while it's there, and sure, something to complain about when it's not. But as something to feel entitled to out of all the players? It's a bit like expecting a super bowl every year. You want it, but expecting it is a bit of a chutzpah.

PFnV

 

[MoLewisrocks]

You:

BradyFTW!:

You questioned whether it happened. Another poster noted a 'fuzzy' recall of it happening. That's backing me up, albeit 'fuzzily'. It was a simple thing being used only as an example, and you made out as I was posting a falsehood. As you noted, "it likely came up..." and, since you're not stupid, you already knew that when you questioned the veracity of my statement. You then went about moving the goalposts with the "team captain" irrelevancy. But, it's just not worth going further on this with you.

You grouped him with a collection of players who specifically complained about this team not paying players, when he said whatever he said as an analyst. In context you're trying to compare apples and oranges. And as for the captaincy, that responsibility never rested on Branch or Samuel, nor on Seymour beyond 2006... Because I think back then there were enough of the kind of players who realized being a captain here was predicated on being all in. I believe it was emoney who bristled at my comment about a contrived captaincy, but we took that tack hoping to reel Dan Graham back in in his final season as well. Didn't work then, either. Some guys will never accept earning respect entails more than showing up or showing respect encompasses more than overpaying.

1.) It's not different.

2.) Please supply the proof that this is "exactly why Branch and Samuel and Seymour and several others are no longer there." After all, Branch, Samuel and Seymour were pretty clearly worth some quality coin, as the seasons without them amply demonstrated.

Whether or not they were worth some quality coin has nothing to do with it. They wanted more than quality coin, and BB felt they weren't worth more OR HE WOULD HAVE GIVEN IT TO THEM. I agree in all cases. The seasons without them don't prove much of anything since while we won with them we also lost with them, and none of them have been difference makers anywhere else since. About the only one who was is Adam, and his difference making was short lived and he wasn't missed here that season (when they would have paid him the AAV he wanted) because his replacement was actually an upgrade in many respects. Since then injury concerns have plagued him, which was what the braintrust here anticipated (ergo their reluctance to sign him to a long term deal). This year he rode the pine through the playoffs to a SB (not that PK was an issue) while a replacement had to be signed for the second or third time in his contract with Indy.

This team wasn't going to win it all this year whether Seymour remained or not. Hindsight for us, maybe not so much for BB - or he had decided Seymour wasn't a significant difference maker and represented a potential negative leader (as was the case with Milloy in 2003). Ergo, getting a #1 for him in the 2011 draft was a +. I know you defended him against all comers for the last couple of seasons he was here. It appears it gauls you that BB didn't apparently feel the same way. Perillo has reiterated several times since the trade that what he hears is the team was very disappointed with what they got out of Seymour post extension and they had no intention of revisiting extending him further despite the stats he put up in 2008. They expected a lot more from him for the money he demanded. They only extend themselves here for the whole package, production and leadership, on and off the field and in the locker room. They will try to work with guys whose production is less consistent than they believe it could be, but that is a two way street. Guys who aren't inclined to be accountable who also feel the need to speak out defensively aren't retained because they constitute negative leadership.

Guys like Brady who go above and beyond (love his quote about how injuries are just excuses for poor play) even when they've significantly outperformed their contract are the guys they eventually will extend themselves for because of the trust they've earned over time to always say and do the right thing for the team. He has to walk a fine line so as not to alienate his more self absorbed teamates, but he finds ways to do that without undercutting management. Always has. He was devastated when Milloy left, they had become very close friends. He was devastated when Branch left because of the rapore they had built. But he acknowledged in both instances that he respects the discipline with which this FO operates



Many people get it, because it's true in most sports. Up to a certain point, effort can overcome talent. Unfortunately, the system that the Patriots were running in the early part of the decade largely worked because other teams got themselves into salary hell and had to dump quality effort players on the market, and also because the Patriots were able to target players that fit the team. With the increase in the cap, those types of cuts became far less frequent, and the Patriots struggled finding fits among those who actually were cut.

There haven't been a whole lot of Vrabels and Harrisons around, and that's been a huge problem for the Patriots.

I agree, and that is one reason Kraft will go to the mat with the league even though he has a high revenue team in a large market. He prefers the model that this system lends itself to, from a sound business standpoint. It rewards overall organizational excellence and performance as opposed to rewarding those who attempt to just buy there way to a championship. I for one will never criticize him for adhering to that approach, even if it pains me to see this team come up short in the eyes of the increasingly shortsighted just always take a shot and win it now crowd... There are just way to many variables involved to make taking the alternate approach remotely worthwhile even in the short term. He could have also taken the emotional approach to hanging on to players too long at any cost in hopes of winning enough to placate the masses when the time came to move on. But he also knows they wouldn't be placated... Bill did tend to hang on to the guys he had the most faith in to continue to be productive enough on some level to split the difference. And it almost paid off in the most incredible way until a couple of those damned variables raised their ugly mugs in back to back seasons (the flu bug and injuries to Harrison and Colvin in 2006 and teflon Eli and Tyree the one trick wonder in 2007).

Sorry to disappoint the more demanding and enlightened critics here, but I got no legit complaints where management is concerned and picking nits isn't my thing. In 2001 I was one of those shmucks who just wanted a freakin' home playoff game for Christmas...and I've never lost sight of how much more I got spanning a decade. If that, or expecting a little more than I show up every week from players who begged to come here because they supposedly just wanted a chance to play championship football with a competently managed team for once and have a shot to win a ring, makes me an "insane homer", so be it.

 

[Sivy]

I really dont think Moss said anything wrong.

 

[NEfan32]

Not too concerned, I mean he didn't say anything he like he hated the organization. 2011 could be a lockout, and seeing how other veterans who want money have left, he is assuming he is no different. I would assume if he produced well, he would be franchised.

 

[p8ryts]

real honest answers, not really sure how i feel about it.

Moss says he thinks 2010 will be his last year in New England | ProFootballTalk.com

Get rid of him today if not sooner. Relieve this team from the "MOSS EFFECT"

 

[RobertWeathers]

I really dont think Moss said anything wrong.

The only issue is that he said the "Pats don't pay" AFTER he was rewarded a 3yr $27m contract in which the first two years of his deal put him in the top 3 in total cash compensation for WRs in the entire league.

I equate his comments to a co-worker telling an industry trade rag that his/her employer doesn't pay well even though you personally received compansation that made you one of the highest paid workers in your paticular speciality.

I think its classless personally.

 

[ikeman20]

Damn who knew that patriot fans were a bunch of girly men. Too much *****assness in these comments. Supposed to be grown men moaning and crying online. I guess its a "together" moment. Quite frankly am too manly for this thread. Unlike most of u, I just rather wait till NEXT offseason after the patriots make their move and then go from there. Please don't stop ur crying on my behalf, carry on

 

[Sivy]

The only issue is that he said the "Pats don't pay" AFTER he was rewarded a 3yr $27m contract in which the first two years of his deal put him in the top 3 in total cash compensation for WRs in the entire league.

I equate his comments to a co-worker telling an industry trade rag that his/her employer doesn't pay well even though you personally received compansation that made you one of the highest paid workers in your paticular speciality.

I think its classless personally.

I took it as him meaning, they dont pay the second time around for vets that are getting older.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I took it as him meaning, they dont pay the second time around for vets that are getting older.

Perhaps he meant it that way but it's an uneducated statement IMO. Most NFL teams in their right minds don't pay big dollars to 33 year old players. I can think of Owens, Rice and Tim Brown getting big money in their early-mid 30s but thats it. They are the exceptions rather than the norm.

QBs certainly fall in that bucket as well.

 

[VJCPatriot]

He's getting paid 27M for 3 seasons. That's 9M per season. I don't see how that would be considered NOT getting paid. It's not Haynesworth money, but the average per year is quite good imo. As to whether or not Moss gets extended, that's a different beast entirely.

Moss will be 33 years old after his current contract is up. It will all depend on how he holds up during the 2010 season and how BB projects him to do afterwards. He might not be worth signing at ages 34/35/36. It's hard to tell. Joey Galloway certainly held up well until... the Pats signed him. Oops!

 

[NEfan32]

Read the article on the Stool. boston.barstoolsports.com

 

[Deus Irae]

You grouped him with a collection of players who specifically complained about this team not paying players, when he said whatever he said as an analyst. In context you're trying to compare apples and oranges. And as for the captaincy, that responsibility never rested on Branch or Samuel, nor on Seymour beyond 2006... Because I think back then there were enough of the kind of players who realized being a captain here was predicated on being all in. I believe it was emoney who bristled at my comment about a contrived captaincy, but we took that tack hoping to reel Dan Graham back in in his final season as well. Didn't work then, either. Some guys will never accept earning respect entails more than showing up or showing respect encompasses more than overpaying.

Hmmmm...

Well, don't get me wrong on this, because I see the point that's being made, about it being a player. However, the Branch, Seymour and Samuel situations already have the issue out in the public eye, and Harrison commented publicly, some time back, about his having to take a pay cut , so I don't see the problem with Moss talking about this.

No, a re-reading shows that it's apples to apples. Also, the captaincy has nothing to do with it. Nothing at all.

 

[Deus Irae]

Whether or not they were worth some quality coin has nothing to do with it. They wanted more than quality coin, and BB felt they weren't worth more OR HE WOULD HAVE GIVEN IT TO THEM. I agree in all cases. The seasons without them don't prove much of anything since while we won with them we also lost with them, and none of them have been difference makers anywhere else since. About the only one who was is Adam, and his difference making was short lived and he wasn't missed here that season (when they would have paid him the AAV he wanted) because his replacement was actually an upgrade in many respects. Since then injury concerns have plagued him, which was what the braintrust here anticipated (ergo their reluctance to sign him to a long term deal). This year he rode the pine through the playoffs to a SB (not that PK was an issue) while a replacement had to be signed for the second or third time in his contract with Indy.

This team wasn't going to win it all this year whether Seymour remained or not. Hindsight for us, maybe not so much for BB - or he had decided Seymour wasn't a significant difference maker and represented a potential negative leader (as was the case with Milloy in 2003). Ergo, getting a #1 for him in the 2011 draft was a +. I know you defended him against all comers for the last couple of seasons he was here. It appears it gauls you that BB didn't apparently feel the same way. Perillo has reiterated several times since the trade that what he hears is the team was very disappointed with what they got out of Seymour post extension and they had no intention of revisiting extending him further despite the stats he put up in 2008. They expected a lot more from him for the money he demanded. They only extend themselves here for the whole package, production and leadership, on and off the field and in the locker room. They will try to work with guys whose production is less consistent than they believe it could be, but that is a two way street. Guys who aren't inclined to be accountable who also feel the need to speak out defensively aren't retained because they constitute negative leadership.

Guys like Brady who go above and beyond (love his quote about how injuries are just excuses for poor play) even when they've significantly outperformed their contract are the guys they eventually will extend themselves for because of the trust they've earned over time to always say and do the right thing for the team. He has to walk a fine line so as not to alienate his more self absorbed teamates, but he finds ways to do that without undercutting management. Always has. He was devastated when Milloy left, they had become very close friends. He was devastated when Branch left because of the rapore they had built. But he acknowledged in both instances that he respects the discipline with which this FO operates

1.) Actually, the seasons without them prove quite a bit. You just have to stop being a shill for the team in order to see it.

2.) You keep making that Seymour claim. Unfortunately for you, the pass rush was a huge problem this year. Seymour supplies a great pass rush from the 3-4 end position. Also unfortunately for you, the Patriots had to move Wilfork off the nose on occasions when the DE couldn't handle the run, which is something the team didn't have to do when Seymour was there. As for what the team could have done with him, we'll never know that answer because Belichick screwed up by trading him away.

3.) I'm still waiting to hear what job you hold with the team, since you continue to tell us all exactly what the team, and individuals, are thinking, even as you criticize others when they do the same thing.

Now, to a specific portion:

I know you defended him against all comers for the last couple of seasons he was here. It appears it gauls you that BB didn't apparently feel the same way.

What "gauls" me is that BB traded away Seymour for a pick when he didn't have an acceptable replacement for him. Had he traded Wilfork away instead, that also would have galled me, because the team didn't have an acceptable replacement for him either. They pissed away this season in order to get a pick years down the road. That should gall every single Patriots fan in existence.

 

[satz]

I saw the interview in person yesterday so my observation.

1) Moss said he is not going to get paid when he is 34 yr OLD. He seem to indicate the pats do not pay OLDER players.He was talking about him and his age when he made the statemet. CONTEXT people.

2) He said the last contract was real good and he thought it was good.Never said anything about his current contract.Again, He was talking about his NEXT contract and Pats not putting big money on Older players.

 

[emoney_33]

I saw the interview in person yesterday so my observation.

1) Moss said he is not going to get paid when he is 34 yr OLD. He seem to indicate the pats do not pay OLDER players.He was talking about him and his age when he made the statemet. CONTEXT people.

2) He said the last contract was real good and he thought it was good.Never said anything about his current contract.Again, He was talking about his NEXT contract and Pats not putting big money on Older players.

You cannot throw around context! Moss is the devil

 

[Deus Irae]

Sorry to disappoint the more demanding and enlightened critics here, but I got no legit complaints where management is concerned and picking nits isn't my thing. In 2001 I was one of those shmucks who just wanted a freakin' home playoff game for Christmas...and I've never lost sight of how much more I got spanning a decade. If that, or expecting a little more than I show up every week from players who begged to come here because they supposedly just wanted a chance to play championship football with a competently managed team for once and have a shot to win a ring, makes me an "insane homer", so be it.

It's possible to like the team and still notice mistakes, and to comment on those mistakes without being disloyal. You can do this even if the mistakes are really, really big, and you can do this even if you've followed the team for a long time. You should try it. One need not be a sheep.

As for expecting more, please.......

 

[Sivy]

I saw the interview in person yesterday so my observation.

1) Moss said he is not going to get paid when he is 34 yr OLD. He seem to indicate the pats do not pay OLDER players.He was talking about him and his age when he made the statemet. CONTEXT people.

2) He said the last contract was real good and he thought it was good.Never said anything about his current contract.Again, He was talking about his NEXT contract and Pats not putting big money on Older players.

You saw it in person? What was his attitude and tone of voice like?

 

[Jangles]

It's possible to like the team and still notice mistakes, and to comment on those mistakes without being disloyal. You can do this even if the mistakes are really, really big, and you can do this even if you've followed the team for a long time.

I don't believe it

burn the witch!