Moss: "I don't think they going to extend my contract here"

[emoney_33]

Y'know me, Mo. I'm not going to go to war over that. If he says he was there, he was there. I was being polite.

What I think Randy's was trying to accomplish during the interview has not changed.

Randy was trying to 'accomplish' something by answering a question at a charity event?

He just doesn't know how to word things and the media will never give us proper context. They've been using the "I play when I want to play" quote out of context for years.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Randy was trying to 'accomplish' something by answering a question at a charity event?

He just doesn't know how to word things and the media will never give us proper context. They've been using the "I play when I want to play" quote out of context for years.

Then what do you think he meant, emoney?

 

[stavros27]

1)Well Brett Favre's dream was to play with and throw to Moss and if Moss went back there Brett would certainly play another season..

2)Moss is still a beloved former player in Minny

3) We could use a pass rushing threat

= How about trading Moss back to the Vikings for Jared Allen?

I know its crazy but its a thought

Great analysis from our resident Madden '10 expert.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Interesting take on the 6.5 sacks in 2007, even though in 2006 he had 7.5.

Should Jarvis Green's early injury in 2009 be ignored?

Even if that was the point (when did sacks become the measuring stick for 3-4 DEs?), the fact remains that his skillset is as a pass-rushing specialist. As a pass rush specialist, he still didn't rush the passer as well as Seymour did, despite the fact that that was a secondary element to Seymour's game. If even the very best elements of his game don't measure up to Seymour's capabilities, then what does that really say about him as a player?

So yes, the fact that Green managed to average 7 sacks per year over two years means very little to me, especially when he was such a liability against the run that there were occasions where Wilfork had to be moved over to his spot.

And no, his early injury should not be ignored. None of the criticisms that I have now are new: I (along with many others) was saying the same before the start of the season. Jarvis Green is not a starter-caliber player. He wasn't even in his prime, which he's now well past. And you saying that our run defense was mediocre anyways is a drastic oversimplification of the defense as a whole. In 2008, nobody could run on Seymour's side of the defense. In 2009, multiple teams based their gameplan on running directly at Jarvis Green. Pretend that it doesn't matter if you want, but that's how it shook out.

If you want to say that it doesn't matter because the Ravens would have blown us out of the water, then that's your choice. To be honest, I think we would have been in the running for a first-round bye If we'd kept him, so we likely wouldn't have even been playing that weekend, but that's a pretty pointless debate to get into since it can't go anywhere.

 

[emoney_33]

Then what do you think he meant, emoney?

I don't waste much time trying to figure out what people meant based on some quotes the media threw on paper.

There are possibilities though that are at least just as likely as the ones many here seem to believe. For example he could simply be talking about the willingness to match the best offer of other teams for high-end (and maybe aging) talent. It doesn't have to be a "you're cheap" thing, it could also be a "they believe in their value system and you can't knock them for it" type of thing.

I've also come to terms with the fact that Moss, more often than not, is better served not talking to the media at all. He just doesn't articulate his points well, and we are left with a giant broad range of meanings based on most likely poor word choice by him.

For example "I play when I want to play" vs. "I play because I want to play". On paper they indicate two dramatically different meanings.

 

[emoney_33]

Even if that was the point (when did sacks become the measuring stick for 3-4 DEs?), the fact remains that his skillset is as a pass-rushing specialist. As a pass rush specialist, he still didn't rush the passer as well as Seymour did, despite the fact that that was a secondary element to Seymour's game. If even the very best elements of his game don't measure up to Seymour's capabilities, then what does that really say about him as a player?

You attributed the sacks in 07 to something that didn't exist in 06, I was merely pointing that out. But according to PFF, in 08 both Seymour and Green had 18 QB pressures. His numbers according to PFF in 07 and 08 do not indicate the monumental dropoff you seem to be claiming. The patriots have proven to be VERY VERY good at evaluating their own talent. They have always determined Jarvis Green to be a good backup/role player and never have tried very hard to find a better replacement for Seymour. This would indicate that the very capable evaluations of those with intimate knowledge feel that Green is not a "bad" or "below-average" replacement.

So yes, the fact that Green managed to average 7 sacks per year over two years means very little to me, especially when he was such a liability against the run that there were occasions where Wilfork had to be moved over to his spot.

Did his knee surgery in November have anything to do with that?

And no, his early injury should not be ignored. None of the criticisms that I have now are new: I (along with many others) was saying the same before the start of the season. Jarvis Green is not a starter-caliber player. He wasn't even in his prime, which he's now well past. And you saying that our run defense was mediocre anyways is a drastic oversimplification of the defense as a whole. In 2008, nobody could run on Seymour's side of the defense. In 2009, multiple teams based their gameplan on running directly at Jarvis Green. Pretend that it doesn't matter if you want, but that's how it shook out.

Do you have numbers to prove these splits? I recall that teams usually struggled to run on Warren's side much more so than Seymour's side. You also are oversimplifying the run defense to the DE only, as if the LBs didn't have an overhaul as well. You want to take total defense from one year to the next and point to one change out of a BUNCH of changes. I disagree that Seymour would have dramatically helped things, all else being equal. I also disagree that going into the 2009 season, Jarvis Green was incapable of being a solid starter (obviously not at Seymour's level).

If you want to say that it doesn't matter because the Ravens would have blown us out of the water, then that's your choice. To be honest, I think we would have been in the running for a first-round bye If we'd kept him, so we likely wouldn't have even been playing that weekend, but that's a pretty pointless debate to get into since it can't go anywhere.

It's just a shame that we had this monumental game changer from 2005 through 2008 but couldn't get a SB victory nor even a first round bye.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't waste much time trying to figure out what people meant based on some quotes the media threw on paper.

There are possibilities though that are at least just as likely as the ones many here seem to believe. For example he could simply be talking about the willingness to match the best offer of other teams for high-end (and maybe aging) talent. It doesn't have to be a "you're cheap" thing, it could also be a "they believe in their value system and you can't knock them for it" type of thing.

I've also come to terms with the fact that Moss, more often than not, is better served not talking to the media at all. He just doesn't articulate his points well, and we are left with a giant broad range of meanings based on most likely poor word choice by him.

For example "I play when I want to play" vs. "I play because I want to play". On paper they indicate two dramatically different meanings.

I agree that Moss is poor when articulating what he really means. There is no debate on that point.

As I've stated earlier (an am certainly still willing to give him the benefit of the doubt if proven) I can only take his exact quotes and draw my own conclusion.

Moss was asked why he felt the team wouldn't bring him back:

"It's the business of it, man," said Moss, who turned 33 this month. "You got to understand the business of football. There is not bad blood. There is no animosity on my side or their side. I think it's just the nature of the business of the NFL.

"You know the Patriots don't really pay, so when I got my second contract from them that was a blessing in disguise. I understand the business. I don't think they're going to re-sign me back. I'm not mad. I'm not bitter. It's just the way things are in this NFL, so like I said after this year I'll be looking for a new team. I think so."

Moss was asked to expound on his theory that the Patriots "don't really pay" and said it's just the organization's philosophy.

If he said, "The NFL typically doesn't pay players my age", I would have been 100% fine with what he said. He'd be right, actually. The problem is that he didn't and crapped on the team in the process. The Patriots do pay. They pay players that they deem have a high amount of value playing in their system- ala Randy in 2008 after the 07 season. He deserved every penny.

You are right. Moss normally ducks the camera b/c he knows he isn't very good at articulating his points and postions. The problem is that he didn't and when asked to clarify his statement, he cited the Pats organizational philosophy which is one "not to pay"- the same that "paid" him.

 

[muzz]

To an extent, he was right in what he said.... IMO of course.

They don't severely OVERPAY a few guys to the detriment of the rest of the team, that's just good business sense.

I think it's just one of those things that you really don't come out and say, and the fact is he said it with Vinces situation all over the media, which looks to me like he was trying to assist his friend....maybe not.

 

[emoney_33]

You are right. Moss normally ducks the camera b/c he knows he isn't very good at articulating his points and postions. The problem is that he didn't and when asked to clarify his statement, he cited the Pats organizational philosophy which is one "not to pay"- the same that "paid" him.

I just think that his words are being analyzed way too much. It's really not that big of a deal and I'm pretty confident that we care about it here infinitely more than BB or Kraft does.

When asked about what motivates him to play he said "I play when I want to play". Well it was really whether Carter motivates him to play and he really meant he motivates himself.

I think we should just take a step back and not try to over-analyze the man's words in the moment of a charity softball game, especially when we already know that man has a poor way with words and is not very articulate.

 

[LiveShot]

If last year's play is a sign of the future then why should they. He may have been hurt but he sure didn't perform up to expectations.

 

[emoney_33]

If last year's play is a sign of the future then why should they. He may have been hurt but he sure didn't perform up to expectations.

Before you look at the numbers, what are your expectations?

 

[RobertWeathers]

I just think that his words are being analyzed way too much. It's really not that big of a deal and I'm pretty confident that we care about it here infinitely more than BB or Kraft does.

When asked about what motivates him to play he said "I play when I want to play". Well it was really whether Carter motivates him to play and he really meant he motivates himself.

I think we should just take a step back and not try to over-analyze the man's words in the moment of a charity softball game, especially when we already know that man has a poor way with words and is not very articulate.

We agree to disagree. IMO there is not much to over-analyze.

 

[JMarr]

I think Moss truly feels at home here and would like to stay, but he knows this is probably his last year in NE. If he stays healthy, he has one great year left in him IMO. Earlier someone said that Moss wants to go elsewhere partly because he won't get a ring in NE. LMAO. This is precisely why I think he's going to do everything he can for the team this year. Maybe I'm wrong--maybe he's just not feelin it anymore. Hell, maybe Brady isn't for that matter. (Whatever the case is, we just need Welker back, period. )

Bottom line is Moss is playing for a contract this year, whether from the Pats or someone else.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Wilbon just ripped on the pats on PTI by saying, "Moss is being mature and is correct, the pats never pay".

 

[emoney_33]

Wilbon just ripped on the pats on PTI by saying, "Moss is being mature and is correct, the pats never pay".

I'm surprised I didn't realize this before!

This is a bet between BB and Moss about who the media hates more. Throw a comment out there to put them head to head and see who the media attacks the most

 

[Patjew]

Y'know me, Mo. I'm not going to go to war over that. If he says he was there, he was there. I was being polite.

What I think Randy's was trying to accomplish during the interview has not changed.

Mo's right, he wasn't there. He saw it on TV and is trying to make it seem like that gives him inside info.

I saw it on TV, too. Guess what: Moss still shouldn't have said "they don't pay".

 

[Jackson 2]

Wilbon just ripped on the pats on PTI by saying, "Moss is being mature and is correct, the pats never pay".

Is this the same ever-famous Patriots lover Wilbon who uttered these prophetic words the week before Brady went down in September of '08: "Without Tom Brady, the Patriots are the Kansas City Chiefs."?

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Moss:"I don't think they going to extend my contract here"

Right, but those words came out of Brady's mouth (emphasis yours). That's the point: that without knowing the actual context of the statement, it's very, very hard to speculate as to what a player actually meant. Moss said a lot of positive things, a lot of realistic things, and one or two negative things. I've already said that I'm pissed about the negative things, but I'm also willing to give him the benefit of the doubt since he's been a good soldier for the Pats for 3+ years.

I can't tell you what to do, obviously, but I'd definitely recommend that you chill out, let Moss play out his contract year, and enjoy the ride. If you think that FAs aren't going to sign their contract offers because Randy Moss implied that maybe they won't get re-upped at market value 5 years later, then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

I didn't need to know the context to know what Brady was saying. All football players ARE underpaid given what they've put their bodies through. Well, except for kickers. The bottom line is that what Moss said was just as obvious. People can try to sweep it under the rug as much as they want by stating "well, it's true". Just because it's true doesn't give him the right to say it. Especially when it was just as easy, if not easier, to say "well, I'm just going to play out this season and see what life has in store for me after this season".

 

[DefenseRules]

Wilbon just ripped on the pats on PTI by saying, "Moss is being mature and is correct, the pats never pay".

Really? I'm sure Adalius Thomas has no complaints about his contract. I know that I do.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Moss:"I don't think they going to extend my contract here"

Great. But you kept saying there was no spin in that article, and it is FILLED with spin. Yeah Moss said some things. He said the Pats don't pay, and you said that is basically saying the Pats are cheap. Moss DIDN'T say cheap, you put that word in his mouth. Maybe he meant it, and he sure could have, but he didn't say it, you did.

And he didn't say he would dog the year like Florio claimed. SPIN.

He didn't say he wanted to be traded. SPIN.

This article is filled with disturbing qoutes (some in fact true) from Moss AND a crap load of spin. Not one or the other the way you claim. But BOTH.

And about the qoutes from Moss, the disturbing part is that he's talking to the media about it. The Pats DON'T shell out overpriced contracts, he didn't tell us anything new there. And about your claiming he basically meant the Pats are cheap, couldnt you go the other way and say he BASICALLY meant the Pats just don't overpay?

To say there is no spin here, is just dumb IMO, no offense.

You must have missed my earlier post. Here, let me help you out...

In every quote you posted, there's only one part that can even remotely be construed as a spin. That is this quote...

Though Moss was still careful to say he plans to play for the Pats in 2010, why would he want to be there if he thinks that he won't be there beyond the coming season?

This is considering the fact that Randy has already said he will play out his contract this season. The Wilfork quote is pure speculation, as is his "lame duck" year quote (which could be taken seriously given his history with the Faiders). However, and I want to make this perfectly clear, it's not Florio's quotes I'm concerned about. It seems that people are just punting to his quotes because they don't have an explanation for what Moss said. What I'm concerned about is Moss' quotes. And that's what the conversation should be about.

There is a sharp difference between speculation and spin.