Anyone still miss Seymour? Final results are in

[pao]

That's not a given. Al is nothing if not stubborn. It's just as likely the Tom Cable era is over and some other sucker is going to get the next shot at making Russell what Al envisioned him to be. Al will point to Tennessee and insist he sees the kind of progress that JaMarcus could yet make under the right coaching. He will throw anyone under the bus but himself...

Of course it is just my opinion but I think it is wishfull thinking if you believe the Raiders will have a top 5 pick in 2011 for the reasons I gave. Who knows? Even though the Raiders evidently have given up on JM I suppose it's possible they haven't and will give him an undeserved shot at starting again next year. I think they've learned their lesson. We'll see.

Edit: One thing I do know. This trade helped the Chargers coming and going. It helped them this year because the Patriots are weaker on defense without Seymour. It helps them in the future because the Raiders won't have a first round pick in '11. Nice.

 

[pao]

Eh. Sounds like a familiar song. I think it's gonna be years to until the Raiders pull themselves out of this--or rather, whenever Davis goes away. I'd say it's a lock they win between 4 and 6 next year, and that'll be top 10 at least.

We'll see. You might be right.

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

I'm still drinkin it!!!

 

[shmessy]

I would lend you $100 today and get back $100 tomorrow, that's equal value. However I can PROFIT by your desire of getting that $100 today, since I know you will value future money less than current money and charge you interest. I am the one profiting, I am the one making out on the deal by being patient. You get your fix today while I get the better value tomorrow. Is this a hard concept? It's not that $110 tomorrow is worth equal to $100 today, it's that your PERSONAL time adjusted value for $100 today is more important than the $110 tomorrow.

Exactly. This is where you are right on the money and Mgteich doesn't get it.

BB is the bank that charges exhorbitant fees and the Raiders are the idiot credit card consumers who run up debt at their 24.9% rates. BB is the shyster gouging them. Just because that happens in our economy to idiot consumers doesn't mean that they are getting "real value" on their transactions.

A 3rd rounder in 2009 is not worth a first rounder in 2011. It only is to an Al Davis or a Dan Snyder.

If Mg wants to accept their idea of valuation, then fine.

Just as long as there actually are people in charge of other NFL teams that are willing to make the same judgement and BB can take advantage of them - - I'll be happy to watch it.

 

[mgteich]

You have argued the position clearly, along with the normal exagerration. You post as if the patriots are the only ones who trade forward and back, and that only hopeless organizations like Oakland and Washington trade future picks. Someone can do the research, but there have been lots of such trades. And just BTW, TENN and JAX do not resemble the raiders in any way, but they traded future picks to the patriots.

There is no question that a current is better than a future second. I will continue to say that there is a time value that is NOT equal to zero. Disagree if you must. Exagerrate if you must. Beleive that the organizations in JAX and TENN are idiots if you must.

Perhaps you think that Denver and Josh McDaniels were idiots when they traded their 2010 first for a 2009 2nd.

Exactly. This is where you are right on the money and Mgteich doesn't get it.

BB is the bank that charges exhorbitant fees and the Raiders are the idiot credit card consumers who run up debt at their 24.9% rates. BB is the shyster gouging them. Just because that happens in our economy to idiot consumers doesn't mean that they are getting "real value" on their transactions.

A 3rd rounder in 2009 is not worth a first rounder in 2011. It only is to an Al Davis or a Dan Snyder.

If Mg wants to accept their idea of valuation, then fine.

Just as long as there actually are people in charge of other NFL teams that are willing to make the same judgement and BB can take advantage of them - - I'll be happy to watch it.

 

[emoney_33]

You have argued the position clearly, along with the normal exagerration. You post as if the patriots are the only ones who trade forward and back, and that only hopeless organizations like Oakland and Washington trade future picks. Someone can do the research, but there have been lots of such trades. And just BTW, TENN and JAX do not resemble the raiders in any way, but they traded future picks to the patriots.

There is no question that a current is better than a future second. I will continue to say that there is a time value that is NOT equal to zero. Disagree if you must. Exagerrate if you must. Beleive that the organizations in JAX and TENN are idiots if you must.

Perhaps you think that Denver and Josh McDaniels were idiots when they traded their 2010 first for a 2009 2nd.

It's not about being an idiot, it's about sacrificing a little in the future to fill an immediate need.

I don't think people who take out mortgages are idiots, nor people who use credit cards. However the banks and credit companies get the better of it in the end. Stop trying to make it about what it is not.

And please tell me when BB has traded a future 1st for a current 2nd

 

[shmessy]

It's not about being an idiot, it's about sacrificing a little in the future to fill an immediate need.

I don't think people who take out mortgages are idiots, nor people who use credit cards. However the banks and credit companies get the better of it in the end. Stop trying to make it about what it is not.

And please tell me when BB has traded a future 1st for a current 2nd

Thank you, emoney_33, that's exactly the point.

It's the Golden Rule - - he who has the gold makes the rules. As Warren Buffet says "The stock market is an efficient pipeline where money flows from the impatient to the patient".

The Patriots are in a position to be patient. The Redskins, Raiders (and yes, Mgteich, the Titans who haven't won a playoff game in 6 years, and the Jaguars who are about to move out of town) are in more desperate positions.

 

[Deus Irae]

Well, NOW the final results are in, and the idiotic decision to trade Seymour was on full display today as the Ravens ran all over the Patriots and the Patriots couldn't generate anything approaching pressure up the middle.

A terrible trade, and the results spoke for themselves today.

 

[The Dynasty]

Well, NOW the final results are in, and the idiotic decision to trade Seymour was on full display today as the Ravens ran all over the Patriots and the Patriots couldn't generate anything approaching pressure up the middle.

A terrible trade, and the results spoke for themselves today.

You cannot say this until we see who the Pats get in return for him and how he turns out. Also, with what we do with Wilfork and if we sign him to an extension and for how much money, and also which players we sign this off season.

The trade was not meant to help the team now, it was to help the team in the future. I dont think you understand that. Seymour demanded a lot of money and the Patriots did not want to pay him. To me it was a choice between Wilfork and Seymour, they were not going to have both after this season and the Pats decided that they wanted Wilfork. Instead of seeing Seymour walk after this year and get nothing for him they got a 1st round pick for him. You cannot say this trade was good or bad until we see who the player is that we draft with that pick in 2012 and how he turns out.

 

[BradyFTW!]

You cannot say this until we see who the Pats get in return for him and how he turns out. Also, with what we do with Wilfork and if we sign him to an extension and for how much money, and also which players we sign this off season.

The trade was not meant to help the team now, it was to help the team in the future. I dont think you understand that. Seymour demanded a lot of money and the Patriots did not want to pay him. To me it was a choice between Wilfork and Seymour, they were not going to have both after this season and the Pats decided that they wanted Wilfork. Instead of seeing Seymour walk after this year and get nothing for him they got a 1st round pick for him. You cannot say this trade was good or bad until we see who the player is that we draft with that pick in 2012 and how he turns out.

I'm inclined to agree with Deus, but this is a fair sentiment as well. Gotta wait and see what we get out of the pick, and if we're lucky we'll have a blue-chip talent comfortable in the Pats' system and coming into his own right as Brady and Moss are retiring, thus ensuring that we stay at the middle of the pack for a few more years.

 

[TP76]

I don't miss him. He was gone anyway, and we got a great draft pick. Offensively, there are far more alarming issues. Bye Richard - now we need a viable running game. This team is run-n-shoot weak.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't miss him. He was gone anyway, and we got a great draft pick. Offensively, there are far more alarming issues. Bye Richard - now we need a viable running game. This team is run-n-shoot weak.

This is precisely the kind of silliness that got the Patriots to 10-6 and bounced hard this year.

Do people never learn?

 

[mgteich]

Many do not learn. I certainly don't think that we would be playing today if Seymour were on the squad. we would ahve been enjoying a bye week.

However, Seymour would not have helped too much today. He would have helped some of course and perhaps made the game much closer.

The defense gave the ball to the offense lots and lots of times, and the offense gave the ball to the ravens.

This is precisely the kind of silliness that got the Patriots to 10-6 and bounced hard this year.

Do people never learn?

 

[ausbacker]

Well, NOW the final results are in, and the idiotic decision to trade Seymour was on full display today as the Ravens ran all over the Patriots and the Patriots couldn't generate anything approaching pressure up the middle.

A terrible trade, and the results spoke for themselves today.

This is precisely the kind of silliness that got the Patriots to 10-6 and bounced hard this year.

Do people never learn?

Whilst not fond of trading Seymour, you cannot draw a reasonable conclusion that the holes on defense, offense, special teams and a rather inexperienced and highly suspect coaching staff are because of Richard Seymour. They are in spite of Bill Belichick.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Many do not learn. I certainly don't think that we would be playing today if Seymour were on the squad. we would ahve been enjoying a bye week.

However, Seymour would not have helped too much today. He would have helped some of course and perhaps made the game much closer.

The defense gave the ball to the offense lots and lots of times, and the offense gave the ball to the ravens.

Do you believe that Seymour would have impacted the Raven's ability to turn an inside run into an 83 yard TD on the first play from scrimmage? Because if the answer is yes, then I'd argue that he would have had a pretty significant impact today. Bottom line, our defense doesn't consistently win at the LOS anymore, and it's never showed more than it did today. Today should have been the ultimate wake-up call for anyone that hadn't seen it yet, I would think.

 

[Deus Irae]

Whilst not fond of trading Seymour, you cannot draw a reasonable conclusion that the holes on defense, offense, special teams and a rather inexperienced and highly suspect coaching staff are because of Richard Seymour. They are in spite of Bill Belichick.

Richard Seymour changes everything for that defense, and that's what the "good trade" people ignore. He was an absolute force against the run and was the only player who could collapse the pocket from the middle.

Anyone watching Gaither and Oher just destroy the Patriots' outside rush today on the ridiculously few pass attempts that the Ravens even bothered to make saw exactly why inside pressure is so important.

However, I haven't held back on Belichick about other moves this year. This trade was just the worst of a slew of bad choices.

 

[ausbacker]

Richard Seymour changes everything for that defense, and that's what the "good" people ignore. He was an absolute force against the run and was the only player who could collapse the pocket from the middle.

Anyone watching Gaither and Oher just destroy the Patriots' outside rush today on the ridiculously few pass attempts that the Ravens even bothered to make saw exactly why inside pressure is so important.

However, I haven't held back on Belichick about other moves this year. This trade was just the worst of a slew of bad choices.

I'm not disagreeing with you that he is a game changer and it's hurt the team this season, I just don't think you can narrow in on Richard Seymour as the sole reason for the defensive problems we have. They go deeper than him IMO.

 

[The Dynasty]

Richard Seymour changes everything for that defense, and that's what the "good" people ignore. He was an absolute force against the run and was the only player who could collapse the pocket from the middle.

Anyone watching Gaither and Oher just destroy the Patriots' outside rush today on the ridiculously few pass attempts that the Ravens even bothered to make saw exactly why inside pressure is so important.

However, I haven't held back on Belichick about other moves this year. This trade was just the worst of a slew of bad choices.

I am just wondering what you think would have been different with Seymour? Would our record have been different than 10-6 in the regular season and then losing to the Ravens in the playoffs?

You keep saying that if we didnt we the Super Bowl then this trade was a bad trade, we werent winning the Super Bowl this year whether we had Seymour or didnt have Seymour.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not disagreeing with you that he is a game changer and it's hurt the team this season, I just don't think you can narrow in on Richard Seymour as the sole reason for the defensive problems we have. They go deeper than him IMO.

Oh, I agree with that. Seymour changes everything, but his absence is not the only issue. The Hobbs trade was a mistake, the Burgess trade was a mistake, the failure to get another ILB to keep Guyton as a 3rd down only guy was a mistake.....

The thing is that one great player can mask a lot of weakness on one side of the ball. The Steelers found that out when their best defender went down this year.

 

[mgteich]

The Burgess trade wouldn't have happened if we were going to keep Seymour. Given that Belichick was dumping Seymour, I don't think that the trade for Burgess was a mistake.

Oh, I agree with that. Seymour changes everything, but his absence is not the only issue. The Hobbs trade was a mistake, the Burgess trade was a mistake, the failure to get another ILB to keep Guyton as a 3rd down only guy was a mistake.....