Interesting tidbits on Thomas

[mgteich]

Perhaps belichick will think twice before paying a large bonus to any free agent.

Some thoughts:

1. The idea that moving Thomas to SILB "ruined him" and took him away for his natural pass rushing skills is ludicrous. BB moved Mike Vrabel inside to SILB when necessity forced him to (Vrabel never complained, but noted how much of a toll it took on his body), and Vrabel had 12.5 sacks when moved back outside. The big scuttlebut on AD in 2006 (his contract year) was his versatility, and how the Ravens had moved him around to almost every position on defense at some point during the season out of necessity, including even safety. So to come to NE and not expect to be moved around was absolutely ridiculous. There was huge speculation when AD signed with the Patriots about all of the creative ways the genious coach would use the versatile weapon.

2. I could see AD signing with Rex and the Jets if the Pats cut him, which is a good reason to trade him rather than cut him if the Pats decide to move on. He's under contract, and has no recourse if a team is willing to pay his salary, which is large but not exorbitant in a non-capped year for someone with his skills. If he were cut a he would go through waivers, and a team which picked him up on waivers would have to pay his salary anyway, unless all 31 teams passed on him. A lot of teams which would likely never get a shot at Thomas if we were cut could find a use for him, and would be willing to give up something in return. BB traded Richard Seymour to Oakland. I can't imagine what fate he could have in store for AD.

3. If the Pats do keep Thomas, I hope we put him inside at SILB next year. I think it would be the best use of him, as he hasn't been effective as a pass rusher, he has the size and skills to play the position, and it would free up Mayo to play his natural WILB position and make plays. And I hope that Thomas takes a pounding inside.

4. Perhaps BB will think twice next time he considers signing a FA from a crybaby team like the Ravens.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I read the article and had to laugh. AD has just disappeared for long stretches this season while playing for a team desperate for some pressure on the QB. When I watch him play I see a guy whose penetration just stalls at the point of O line contact. The guy still has some skills but at what price?
I can't see us not releasing him at the end of the year. And if the Jets want to overpay for a slow OLB that has lost both his burst off the line of scrimmage as well as his desire, I'll help push him up to the front of their line.

It seems to me like this is very similar to whathappened to Dillon in Cincy, only then we were on the rescuing side of the equation. Athletes with something to prove are dangerous (potentially) If he goes to the Jets, he will have a monster season and two out of this world games against us.

 

[Deus Irae]

Me neither. When Thomas signed, he was asked at the press conference about his ability to play inside, outside, even a snap or two at safety, and his response was something like (paraphrasing): "I don't think of it in terms of positions, it's just 11 guys out there with their jobs trying to make a play."

Unless that was totally lip service, I think he understood he would be playing positions that weren't his favorite at times.

I agree with the general thrust of your point, but it helps lead into something else I see with this article and the entire Thomas situation, so I'll use your post as a jumping off point. I hope you don't mind, and this is not intended to be a disagreement with what you wrote:


I think people here get too hung up in defending BB and attacking anyone who remotely questions the regime. The likely reality is that Thomas would have been more than capable and versatile enough, if he was being used in a scheme which fit his strengths and masked his limitations. I think people here should start looking at last season as a great teaching tool instead of just spouting the party line. Last season, this team had one of the league's better defensive coordinators as a member of the coaching staff, and we saw almost no impact from that. That's because this team is all about the system, both on the field and off, and that coordinator runs a different system, so his influence was minimized.

Put Thomas in an aggressive, attacking defense and I expect he'll have another strong season or two. However, as a big man, 'sudden' movement to the side is always going to be an issue for him, which is why passive defense is not going to be the best way to use him, and reaction defense is only going to fit his game if he's able to make that read before the opponent finishes his move. That's what made a player like Bruschi stand out, but Thomas doesn't have that same level of diagnostic ability.

If Thomas fails, it will be because BB wrongly thought he could adapt AdT to the system, not because AdT didn't have the talent to be an excellent linebacker in the NFL. It's a Greg Spires situation.

 

[mgteich]

I don't know why anyone thinks that Thomas is worth anything in trade. Is there a team that needs a linebacker more than we do? If he is worth his salary, then we should keep him.

 

[everlong]

I don't know why anyone thinks that Thomas is worth anything in trade. Is there a team that needs a linebacker more than we do? If he is worth his salary, then we should keep him.

Given his locker room presence he might be worth the salary to another team. I don't think he's worth much in trade at this point but I can see us dumping him for a day two pick just to keep him out of NY.

 

[klinefan]

Perhaps belichick will think twice before paying a large bonus to any free agent.

Yep, BB needs to not pay big bonuses to FA. Period. If AT is so much better at attacking than reading, why isn't he the desinated "attack" guy? I kind of wonder if Crable would have been good this year as a designated pash rusher too. Maybe he isn't an every down LB but he must be able to do something...he dominated in college so why do we want to draft another 6'5" 250 guy when we have one already?

 

[Sicilian]

I agree with the general thrust of your point, but it helps lead into something else I see with this article and the entire Thomas situation, so I'll use your post as a jumping off point. I hope you don't mind, and this is not intended to be a disagreement with what you wrote:


I think people here get too hung up in defending BB and attacking anyone who remotely questions the regime. The likely reality is that Thomas would have been more than capable and versatile enough, if he was being used in a scheme which fit his strengths and masked his limitations. I think people here should start looking at last season as a great teaching tool instead of just spouting the party line. Last season, this team had one of the league's better defensive coordinators as a member of the coaching staff, and we saw almost no impact from that. That's because this team is all about the system, both on the field and off, and that coordinator runs a different system, so his influence was minimized.

Put Thomas in an aggressive, attacking defense and I expect he'll have another strong season or two. However, as a big man, 'sudden' movement to the side is always going to be an issue for him, which is why passive defense is not going to be the best way to use him, and reaction defense is only going to fit his game if he's able to make that read before the opponent finishes his move. That's what made a player like Bruschi stand out, but Thomas doesn't have that same level of diagnostic ability.

If Thomas fails, it will be because BB wrongly thought he could adapt AdT to the system, not because AdT didn't have the talent to be an excellent linebacker in the NFL. It's a Greg Spires situation.

I see what you're saying and I think I agree. The Thomas situation really is the same phenomenon that makes second guessing draft picks difficult. Rey Maualuga looks like he's playing really well and we should have picked him up, but who says he adapts to our system as well as he did Cincinnati's?

I have no doubt Thomas is a great talent, and we see flashes of that on individual plays. The question is why those plays don't happen more often, and there are three logical explanations:

A) Thomas isn't working hard for whatever reason.

B) The coaching staff (including BB) aren't utilizing him properly to his strengths.

or C) BB overestimated the number of situations he could put Thomas in where he would excel.

2/3 possibilities would be failings on BB's part. It's hard to say what all the factors are though without being in the locker room.

 

[Simkin]

Fixed that for you mg.

lol

Well, good luck with the jest , like Ty Law and so many others.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion that the jets don't have a top defense.

Interesting. Nowhere in the cited post did I read that.

 

[JMarr]

we blitz about 30-40% of the time. Really? That's news to me but i'll take your word for it.

Ad does not have the pass rushing ability he used to. It's as simple as that. We used him in that role in 2007 with a lot of success. .face it, the guy stinks.

No, the desire's just not there. Like another poster said, if he was hungry and not moping, he'd still could be highly effective.

They used him at all sorts of different positions in baltimore. Switching to ilb has nothing to do with it--he took over for ray lewis when lewis was injured. He is making up excuses for sucking, and he's a head case. I don't think thomas ever b!tched about moving to ILB.

You're expected to be a "good soldier" on belichick's team because he knows what he's doing. this is a disciplined team, not a party zone like the jets.

I wouldn't say it's a "party zone" over there with no professionalism--mainly just a completely different type of defense.

My only rap on Thomas is he's shown that he's not a team player. Not acceptable here. He better hope he gets a ring this year, because it'll be his last chance.

 

[Deus Irae]

My only rap on Thomas is he's shown that he's not a team player. Not acceptable here. He better hope he gets a ring this year, because it'll be his last chance.

How has Thomas shown that he's not a team player? I seem to have missed that.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

well, that's pretty clearly the spin that Thomas wants us to believe, hand delivered by his cronies.

i just don't see the pats letting him go to a Division rival. unless he has a no trade clause in his contract, i think they'd trade him in the off season for whatever then can get considering his price tag, if they decide he's beyond salvaging for the team.

 

[BelizePats]

Jmarr, I guess I just don't see what you do when we're watching him play. My eyes tell me that he slowed way down. You may equate it more to him losing his desire. I see it as a combination of both.

 

[JMarr]

How has Thomas shown that he's not a team player? I seem to have missed that.

Umm...
...by publicly showing up the Coach, repeatedly? (Bad)
...by mailing it in starting around the time of the Seymour trade? (letting your other teamates down--not good)
...by causing dissention in the lockerroom? (Never helpful)

Seriously, I basically agree with your premise that some people have gone overboard in trashing the guy and jumping to conclusions, but I don't know where you've been if you missed the part about when Thomas became a problem for this team.

 

[Deus Irae]

Umm...
...by publicly showing up the Coach, repeatedly? (Bad)
...by mailing it in starting around the time of the Seymour trade? (letting your other teamates down--not good)
...by causing dissention in the lockerroom? (Never helpful)

Seriously, I basically agree with your premise that some people have gone overboard in trashing the guy and jumping to conclusions, but I don't know where you've been if you missed the part about when Thomas became a problem for this team.

Problem for the team and "not a team player" are two different claims, that's all.

Nothing he's done that's been publicly reported has been proof that he's not a team player. One needn't be a sheep to be a team player.

And Belichick benching him and sending him home for being 9 minutes late, with a phone call, because of snow, aren't exactly things done outside the public eye.

 

[zoostation]

lol

Well, good luck with the jest , like Ty Law and so many others.

Exactly.... the jets will 'back' into the playoffs this year. Get their fans all excited again. And then become the SOJ for the next 5 years.

Have fun LA Clipper errr...Jets land

 

[klinefan]

Don't think the pats will be in a position to try to trade a 5M linebacker who isn't very good. They'll dump his contract as soon as they can. Who cares if he goes to the Jets, he's mediocre at best.

 

[Fencer]

Some thoughts:

1. The idea that moving Thomas to SILB "ruined him" and took him away for his natural pass rushing skills is ludicrous. BB moved Mike Vrabel inside to SILB when necessity forced him to (Vrabel never complained, but noted how much of a toll it took on his body), and Vrabel had 12.5 sacks when moved back outside. The big scuttlebut on AD in 2006 (his contract year) was his versatility, and how the Ravens had moved him around to almost every position on defense at some point during the season out of necessity, including even safety. So to come to NE and not expect to be moved around was absolutely ridiculous. There was huge speculation when AD signed with the Patriots about all of the creative ways the genious coach would use the versatile weapon.

2. I could see AD signing with Rex and the Jets if the Pats cut him, which is a good reason to trade him rather than cut him if the Pats decide to move on. He's under contract, and has no recourse if a team is willing to pay his salary, which is large but not exorbitant in a non-capped year for someone with his skills. If he were cut a he would go through waivers, and a team which picked him up on waivers would have to pay his salary anyway, unless all 31 teams passed on him. A lot of teams which would likely never get a shot at Thomas if we were cut could find a use for him, and would be willing to give up something in return. BB traded Richard Seymour to Oakland. I can't imagine what fate he could have in store for AD.

3. If the Pats do keep Thomas, I hope we put him inside at SILB next year. I think it would be the best use of him, as he hasn't been effective as a pass rusher, he has the size and skills to play the position, and it would free up Mayo to play his natural WILB position and make plays. And I hope that Thomas takes a pounding inside.

4. Perhaps BB will think twice next time he considers signing a FA from a crybaby team like the Ravens.

You're spot on with #1. A problem with #2 is that Thomas has shown he doesn't thrive if he's not in the mood to thrive. That lowers his trade value.

On the other hand -- he HAS been a competent player here. He just hasn't been a special one.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Someone losing their groove

or someone who doesn't have others pave the way for him ... is there a difference there?

 

[TheComeback]

I agree with the general thrust of your point, but it helps lead into something else I see with this article and the entire Thomas situation, so I'll use your post as a jumping off point. I hope you don't mind, and this is not intended to be a disagreement with what you wrote:


I think people here get too hung up in defending BB and attacking anyone who remotely questions the regime. The likely reality is that Thomas would have been more than capable and versatile enough, if he was being used in a scheme which fit his strengths and masked his limitations. I think people here should start looking at last season as a great teaching tool instead of just spouting the party line. Last season, this team had one of the league's better defensive coordinators as a member of the coaching staff, and we saw almost no impact from that. That's because this team is all about the system, both on the field and off, and that coordinator runs a different system, so his influence was minimized.

Put Thomas in an aggressive, attacking defense and I expect he'll have another strong season or two. However, as a big man, 'sudden' movement to the side is always going to be an issue for him, which is why passive defense is not going to be the best way to use him, and reaction defense is only going to fit his game if he's able to make that read before the opponent finishes his move. That's what made a player like Bruschi stand out, but Thomas doesn't have that same level of diagnostic ability.

If Thomas fails, it will be because BB wrongly thought he could adapt AdT to the system, not because AdT didn't have the talent to be an excellent linebacker in the NFL. It's a Greg Spires situation.

I have to disagree with this. I don't think it's the system. I thought AD was very effective in his first year with them, but only moderately so last year. I'll point to his Super Bowl performance, which I think was his best with the Patriots, as evidence that he can succeed in our system. He recorded 8 sacks after spending much of the year inside. I simply think it's a case where the player is getting older and has started to decline.