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What's the worst Pats team since 2004?

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What's the worst Pats team since 2004?

  • 2005

    Votes: 46 38.3%
  • 2006

    Votes: 7 5.8%
  • 2007

    Votes: 3 2.5%
  • 2008

    Votes: 30 25.0%
  • 2009

    Votes: 34 28.3%

  • Total voters
    120
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It's been proposed they were better than the 2001, 03, 04 teams too. True?

Given my position that the 2007 team is the best team in the NFL since at least as far back as "Da Bears", that would indeed be my opinion. That's beyond the scope of the poll, however.
 
Given my position that the 2007 team is the best team in the NFL since at least as far back as "Da Bears", that would indeed be my opinion. That's beyond the scope of the poll, however.

So winning is secondary to you.
 
The origional question was that was posed is which team post 2004 is the worst. Everything else you said IMO it irrelevent.

Sure, I'm stretching to make a point, but the point is damned valid. There is no NFL trophy for greatest team of all time, that's in people's imaginaginations..

OK. We have established that the 2005 and 2007 teams did not win a Super Bowl.

Given that, we need to separate football as entertainment, gaudy statistics, beautiful pass plays, and football as winning the last game..

Right. Neither the 2005 or 2007 Pats did that.

In my opinion, we are doing a great job of putting a competitive team on the field every year, the only way to maximize chances of winning it all IMO. Too many examples of great teams that didn't win and flukes like 2001 that got hot and did it..

OK. Good. I agree with this.

I really liked that 2005 team. They obviously had less talent to work with, hell they put two full complements of a starting secondary on IR at least. every running back went down, yet they found a way to make the playoffs.?.

Yes. They did. It was a nice run. I remember being hopeful, but not very.....


They were only a couple playoff wins away from what the 2007 team did, because winning it all is what counts. Had they picked up a couple more waiver players, maybe they could have done something because they had learned hoe to adapt, how to squeeze out improbable wins.

Woulda coulda, shoulda does not count. The 2007 team won 6 more regular season games and won a conference championship and made it to the Super Bowl. The 05 team lost in the divisionals.

[/
Did the 2007 team?.

See Baltimore. See Philly. See AFCCC vs SD. Pats played bad and still won. They take the lead w/ 2:30 left in the SB. yea the D blew it but Brady and the O did their job when they needed to at that juncture in the game.

Like I say, I'm making a point, but it's the same in life. You going to bet on the guy who has lived on a big inheritance or the guy who fought all the way out of tough circumstances, when the going gets tough?.

Im sure Bruschi, Seau, Stephen Neal, Rodney Harrison and Wes Welker are not trust fund kids that played squash and praticed Chopin after school. Sheesh!

I love the talent on this team and I love watching Moss and Welker. My opinion is we are wasting Moss's talents by not exploiting all the openings teams give us because of their overplay on him and Welker..

Has nothing to do with comparing 07 to 05

Moss getting beat up at the line, Moss getting smashed over the middle, throwing to Moss in triple coverage. Insanity. Same goes with continuing to pass to Welker when he's covered instead of using TEs, running, using Faulk, screen passes on the opposite side of the field etc..

Has nothing to do with comparing 07 to 05

When we patiently march up the field, or indeed get big plays form the supporting cast for TDs, defenses will have to adjust, the easy passes (anything under triple coverag lol) to Moss will be back, the middle will open back up for Welker. It's football 101..

Has nothing to do with comparing 07 to 05

A balanced offense including stars is even more entertaining than a strictly long passing offense. When you are talking about 2004 and later greatest teams, you're talking most entertaining, none of them won it all. Beating the Titans by 50 points is the same as beating the skins or buf in 2007. 20-40 points that are completely, and I mean completely meaningless. To the extent that it makes offenses distorted or complacent, I'd say big wins could even be counter productive.

07 team won more than the 05 team and by your logic where winning is everything, is the better team.
 
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yeah, I went back and forth with that one. Obviously 2007 was a great team, and the possibility exists they would have blown out the 2005 Pats. But the 2007 offense had slowed down, and I guess my point is that the 2005version could have made a game of it.

W/O Rodney and that 2005 secondary? It would have been a game, but the better team would have prevailed- 2007.
 
2005 the D was 17th in points allowed and 26th in yerd's

last year's team was a top ten D

and a top five O
 
So are there people here that think the 2007 Giants were a better team than the 2007 Patriots?
 
So are there people here that think the 2007 Giants were a better team than the 2007 Patriots?



Deep down in my heart. I do think that the 07 Pats are the better team. If those two teams play 10 times. 07 Pats wins 7 of 10.

With that said, the 07 Giants played a spectaular game and deserve all the credit for (gulp) winning SB 42 by outplaying the Pats.

I ration it like this. What if the 85 Pats beat the 85 Bears in Sb XX. Would people say that the Pats are the better team? Hell no.
 
As I recall, that team won 18 games.

A lot of teams sweep the preseason too.

The Colts consistently won regular season games while we won championships and we laughed at them.

Now winning in the regular season and losing the big game is good.

OK.
 
Im sure Bruschi, Seau, Stephen Neal, Rodney Harrison and Wes Welker are not trust fund kids that played squash and praticed Chopin after school. Sheesh!

The 2007 team didn't have to find ways to win close games and didn't have to make many adjustments at all.

That's what I meant. It is a factor. Did the Patriots make good adjustments against the Giants?
 
The 2007 team didn't have to find ways to win close games and didn't have to make many adjustments at all.

I disagree. The Ravens, Eagles, Giants, Jets (2nd game), and Colts all provided the Pats with close games involving the need for adjustments. The Eagles, in particular, threw some weird stuff at the Pats, like the random onside kick. After the bye week, the Pats started getting some of the best shots that teams could give. Not every week was 52-10. There were some very close calls. The Pats should have, by all rights, lost the game to the Ravens. But it's my opinion that 16-0 can't happen without some luck.
 
Deep down in my heart. I do think that the 07 Pats are the better team. If those two teams play 10 times. 07 Pats wins 7 of 10.

With that said, the 07 Giants played a spectaular game and deserve all the credit for (gulp) winning SB 42 by outplaying the Pats.

I ration it like this. What if the 85 Pats beat the 85 Bears in Sb XX. Would people say that the Pats are the better team? Hell no.

If there are any old time Celtic fans, I bet they'll back me up on this.

The Celtics lost to the better team 11 times in the 50-60's. This is absolutely true. According to the writers and experts, the 76ers, the Lakers or both, or way back, the St. Louis Hawks, were better that year than that particular Celtics team.

Take that for what it's worth.
 
I disagree. The Ravens, Eagles, Giants, Jets (2nd game), and Colts all provided the Pats with close games involving the need for adjustments. The Eagles, in particular, threw some weird stuff at the Pats, like the random onside kick. After the bye week, the Pats started getting some of the best shots that teams could give. Not every week was 52-10. There were some very close calls. The Pats should have, by all rights, lost the game to the Ravens. But it's my opinion that 16-0 can't happen without some luck.

An argument could be made, though I thought they looked like they were slipping, rather than adjusting, as the season went on.

I would argue that the San Diego game was the only one they showed adjustment by bringing out the running game. they subsequently dropped it. Maybe Maroney was injured, I don't know.
 
If there are any old time Celtic fans, I bet they'll back me up on this.

The Celtics lost to the better team 11 times in the 50-60's. This is absolutely true. According to the writers and experts, the 76ers, the Lakers or both, or way back, the St. Louis Hawks, were better that year than that particular Celtics team.

Take that for what it's worth.

Old time Keltics fan here. I don't think that means what you think it means.
 
If there are any old time Celtic fans, I bet they'll back me up on this.

The Celtics lost to the better team 11 times in the 50-60's. This is absolutely true. According to the writers and experts, the 76ers, the Lakers or both, or way back, the St. Louis Hawks, were better that year than that particular Celtics team.

Take that for what it's worth.

Teams that win 11 of 13 titles don't beat better teams. They are the better team. I can understand one title or two. But 11? They played 7 game series to boot where there is more of an opportunity to have the "cream rise to the top"....I'll give you 67 and thats it. 58 Russell was hurt and out. 68 and 68 Lakers were up 3-2 and lost both in 7. Don't even tell me that they were the better team.

That analogy is terrible. Try another one.
 
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An argument could be made, though I thought they looked like they were slipping, rather than adjusting, as the season went on.

I would argue that the San Diego game was the only one they showed adjustment by bringing out the running game. they subsequently dropped it. Maybe Maroney was injured, I don't know.

That could be the case, but I still think that the '07 team did have to exhibit some grit to make it through the season 16-0. They certainly did have to manufacture some wins there. So I'll concede on the point that they really didn't have to adjust their gameplan, but I'll stick to my guns on the fact that the 07 team had to find ways to win at least a few times during the 07 season. Unfortunately, lady luck cashed in during SB42.
 
Cassel was looking fine until Moss got the dropsies. An incomplete pass to Moss on 3rd and 2 from the Pitt 11 meant that the Patriots had to settle for a field goal. Big Ben drove Pitt down for a TD. Cassel then answered for the Patriots by driving them from the Patriots' 27 down to the Pittsburgh 9. 3 incompletions to Moss later, Gost missed a field goal. That was, basically, the end of the half.

To start the second half, Cassel led the team from the Patriots 24 to a 2nd and 1 on the Pitt 31. Cassel was then sacked and taken out of field goal range. Pitt went on a 7 minute drive that ended in a FG. That was followed by Slater's fumble and touchdown which made it 20-10. The very next offensive play was the sack/fumble on Cassel, which lead to another FG, and the beating commenced. How that's supposed to be Cassel not looking comfortable to that point is something I just don't fathom. Prior to the Slater fumble/Cassel fumble combination, it was just a good game between an excellent defense and an improving offense with Moss' bad hands being the main difference in Pittsburgh's favor.

Cassel misfired on 20 passes, threw for 169 yards and had two picks. The fact stands that he didn't have a very good game against an elite defense, no matter which way you cut it. After that, he didn't face another one for the rest of the season. Put Brady up against Seattle, Oakland, Arizona in a blizzard, and Buffalo and he'd look like an all star too.

You're equating numbers with performance as if it's a 1 to 1 thing when it's not. Furthermore, Cassel's numbers in the second half of last season were just fine on their own.

Yes they are. How else are we supposed to determine a quarterback's production? It's one thing to measure a team's production with adding up wins and losses, but a quarterback's production is determined by the overall numbers that he puts up and which defenses he does it to. And yes, Cassel's numbers were just fine on their own. My argument was never that Cassel's numbers sucked in any way. However, Brady's numbers are better and against better competition on defense.

Yeah, I don't agree with much of this, other than the O-line playing better at the end of last season than it has this season, although it's been generally fairly solid in the passing game. Brady's been wildly inconsistent at the key moments this season, and Brady had Galloway on his team, but couldn't find a way to make that work. Galloway, even at 38, was a better player than any other WR3 Brady's played with before, and that includes Gaffney.

So you don't agree that if the O-Line has played better this season, Brady wouldn't have more time to throw? That Brady wouldn't have extra targets in Watson and maybe Baker because they wouldn't be helping out in the blocking game as much? I'm not sure I'm fully understanding that statement. And no, it hasn't been solid in the passing game lately. Drives ended in the second half of the Colts game because Brady was getting hit by Robert Mathis when he practically took the third step in his dropback. Against the Jets, Ryan even admitted that they only showed blitz in the first half and then brought it in the second half. The results? Drives once again stalled and Brady was once again getting hit/on his back. In the first half of the Saints game, the O-Line looked very good when it was healthy. Brady was able to stand upright. Exit Stephen Neal and Brady was once again on his back. When the O-Line has been healthy, it has looked great. When injuries occurred, our lack of depth has showed thus having to take Watson and Baker and place them in blocking situations more often and thus taking weapons out of the passing game that Cassel had last year.

Gotta say I agree about Galloway. I wish the team would have been more patient with him because I believe that it would have been paying dividends right now. I wouldn't put the blame for him being off the team on Brady so much as on the coaches, though neither you nor I will ever know what went down behind the scenes. However, I have to disagree, respectfully, with the fact that he could have been the best WR3 that Brady's ever played with before. I would rather have Stallworth back over Galloway. But that's just me.

Gaffney caught 38 passes last season. Edelman's already caught 26 passes this season, and he's missed games due to injury. It's time to put the myth of Gaffney as the difference maker to bed.

First, Edelman is not the WR3 on this team. He hasn't been all season. That title goes to Sam Aiken. Edelman is the WR4 on this team and that will only change if he comes back healthy and is inserted into Aiken's spot on the other side of Moss. Furthermore a chunk of those catches were made in the Jets game when Welker was out of the line-up. Secondly, I never said Gaffney was a difference maker. My argument is that he was the better WR3 than Aiken currently is.

I think the team should have kept Galloway and designed plays that allowed him to run more standard routes. I think that failing to make the system flexible when there wasn't a better option was a mistake.

I agree.

But it's not as if Edelman, Maroney and Aiken haven't made up for Gaffney, because they have. They just haven't made that 3rd option a clear upgrade, which it could have been had the team found a way to make the Galloway option work.

The jury's still out on that for me. Obviously, there's time left in the season to make that statement true. Edelman has been very good when he's been in. But he has been injured this year and has missed a good amount of time. As I've said before, Maroney didn't start catching passes until just recently and hasn't exactly set the world on fire when doing it. However, if they use him in the passing game more as the season goes on then that could change. Aiken was given every open look possible against one on one coverage against the Saints and never really made them pay for doubling up on Moss and Welker. He put up some decent numbers though. However, aside from that game, he hasn't really done much else this season except for one catch against Tampa Bay and some good blocking when we execute screen plays. Like I said, the jury is still out though. Hopefully these guys make us all forget about letting Galloway go and also make us forget about the likes of Gaffney and Stallworth.

Also, you're using the full season from last year. That's not what the poll was asking about. It was asking about the team at the end of last season. Pats1 has already put up some numbers about it. I consider the switch point to be the Jets game, myself.

Maybe I'm not fully understanding you, but the poll is asking about the worst Pats team since 2004. It only seemed right to use the full season to try to make the point. I used the numbers since Week 5 of this season only to try to make the sample size as similar as I could.
 
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