PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Bledsoe or Cassel

Status
Not open for further replies.
Clearly spoken by the self proclaimed lone voice of reason hereabouts...

You keep talking about how this offense has changed. It hasn't, it merely adapted. The playbook has expanded to accommodate different talents and to account for defenses attempting to shut it down. At it's core it remains the same offense. One predicated on disciplined execution across the board and a QB's ability to adapt to it, to read defenses, and adjust to them in a consistent manner that his line and receivers can count on and are expected to replicate, to make good decisions quickly and consistently, remain patient and disciplined under pressure and protect the god damn football.

If Belichick coached here until 2039 Bledsoe could not play for him because he cannot run that fundamental offense. Might he win some more games than the 3 over .500 he won in his first 9 years here if inserted into the 2007 cast as assembled? Probably, but would some of them have ever come here to play for Bill Belichick behind Drew Bledsoe? On a team that hadn't won a Superbowl beyond 2001? I don't think so. Would Branch and Givens have developed without what Brady brought to the mix? Probably not. Would the present "cerebral" OL have played as well in front of a statue as they learned to in front of a cerebral QB with uncanny pocket presence? Probably not. And would BB not bench him as Parcell's did if he became insubordinate? Or when he merely persistently failed to adjust a throw to beat a defense and hit a defender in stride rather than Moss or Welker who had read the defense and made the adjustment?

You admire talent. Including guys who can sling it. Unfortunately that remains the downfall of half the NFL franchises. Bill looks for system fits first and foremost beginning with his QB because if talent can't execute within his system it is of no value to him.

Actually, I admire players who find a way to win despite the supposed lack of athletic talent. I'm much happier with the Bradys of the world than the Bledsoes. It's one of the many things you've gotten wrong in this post, though, so I'm not surprised. The offense is significantly changed, yet you say that it's the same. You claim the only difference is based upon adaptations, yet how can that be if it's the quarterbacks throwing in the exact same system?

That really shows me all I need to know about how you are letting your bias dictate on this subject. There's really no need to go further with it, given that. I will, however, wait anxiously for your dissertation on how BB incorporating elements of the spread offense affected no change change on "the core" though.
 
Last edited:
Careful, you are disrespcting Drew by commenting on his weaknesses. That isnt fair, he signlehandedly saved the franchise. After those 3 bad years we were ready to be disbanded. You should know that this means you are not objective or reasonable because only those whose praise Drew are speaking honestly and fairly.
Stop using facts and bow to Drew. We owe that to him, he wasn't just a QB who had a few good years then languished in medicority HE IS THE IDENTITY OF MANY POSTERS ON THIS BOARD. BLASPHEMER.

Yes, my pointing out that his early years caused him to be too reliant on the tight end position is clearly not pointing to any weakness of Bledsoe in his later career.

You two really need to get past the anti-Bledsoe thing. Bledsoe was far from perfect, but Cassel's next win against a top flight opponent will be his first.
 
Last edited:
Bledsoe was a fine quarterback and one of our best ever but the Bledsoe of 2000/01 was not close to the same man that was there in the mid to late nineties. Cassel on what we seen last season was much better than the Bledsoe of the early part of this decade. He was too mistake ridden.

Overall if you asked who was a better quarterback over their career to date, its obvious that I'd pick Drew right now but in one season Cassel did enough to make me believe that he was better this decade than Bledsoe. One point of note, its harly Matt Cassel's fault that we didn't make the playoffs this year, I mean that defence shipped 33 against the Jets in Gillette Stadium and that cost us our place.
 
Careful, you are disrespcting Drew by commenting on his weaknesses. That isnt fair, he signlehandedly saved the franchise. After those 3 bad years we were ready to be disbanded. You should know that this means you are not objective or reasonable because only those whose praise Drew are speaking honestly and fairly.
Stop using facts and bow to Drew. We owe that to him, he wasn't just a QB who had a few good years then languished in medicority HE IS THE IDENTITY OF MANY POSTERS ON THIS BOARD. BLASPHEMER.

You've been claiming for the last 5 pages that you believe you're right. That your opinion is the correct one. You were doing a pretty good job of proving your case, till you posted this completely stupid smart azz comment. Most people will tend to ignore someones posts, no matter how good they may be, after reading something this stupid. I know i've lost respect for your opinion, not that I think you care. Also, be sure not to rag on someones spelling, and then proceed to misspell words yourself (first sentence)
 
1. Insult person's post
2. Be responded to with an evenhanded post that casts your bizarre aggression in an even harsher light
3. Respond with another insult
4. ....

See where this is going? You seem to be stuck in a loop, and the only thing that any of this is proving is that you're both misinformed and WAY too invested in this.

Yeah, I guess the issue is I've met Drew on several occasions, found him to be a very nice guy and recall back to the early 90's before he came here when myself and several of my Patriot fan season ticket holder friends used to go to games surounded by empty seats and have been fortunate to see how far this franchise has come.

But again, we are talking about this decade afterall, not the 90's.
 
Last edited:
I love it. You attempted to use sarcasm to imply he is stupid by calling him Einstein, yet you misspelled Einstein.

Did you "love it" when Patjew misspelled it too?

Didn't think so.

But hey, Drew got traded away the following year after the 2001 Super Bowl, Brady has led the team to two more Super Bowl wins, one AFCCG loss (one more than Drew who was 2-0 in AFCCG's), and one Super Bowl loss (the same number of SB losses that Drew had).

And be sure to get back to me when Cassel;

a.) Passes for over 40,000 yards
b.) Throws 300 TD passes
c.) Plays 14 years in the league
d.) Gets to a pro bowl


Drew was the youngest QB to make it to the Pro Bowl at 22 and the youngest QB to get to 10,000 yards at 23.

Oh and one other thing; get back to me when Cassel actually beats a good team.

I'll be patiently waiting.

(Did I spell patiently correctly professor?)..........
 
a.) Passes for over 40,000 yards
b.) Throws 300 TD passes
c.) Plays 14 years in the league
d.) Gets to a pro bowl


Drew was the youngest QB to make it to the Pro Bowl at 22 and the youngest QB to get to 10,000 yards at 23.

None of which he did in 2000 or 2001.

Arguing that Bledsoe was a great QB for the Patriots in 2000/2001 is like arguing the "Brett the Jet" ought be inducted into the Jets hall of fame because of what he did as a Packer.
 
None of which he did in 2000 or 2001.

Arguing that Bledsoe was a great QB for the Patriots in 2000/2001 is like arguing the "Brett the Jet" ought be inducted into the Jets hall of fame because of what he did as a Packer.

My gut tells me if the question was "Who is the backup to Brady on the ALL TIME Patriots team?", the answer for most would be Cassel, so who's kidding who here.
 
My gut tells me if the question was "Who is the backup to Brady on the ALL TIME Patriots team?", the answer for most would be Cassel, so who's kidding who here.


If the question is who was the second best QB for the NEP, most would go with Bledsoe.

If the question was who was the better back QB Bledsoe or Cassel, then you have to go with Cassel. Bledsoe was a horrible in the role of back up QB. He demanded to start. He was a lockerroom distraction. He went over the coaches head to the owner. He demanded to be traded at the end of the season.

MC on the other hand did not demand to be traded and I am certain if the Pats did not trade him, (not they could afford to) he would back up Brady w/o demanding a trade or becoming a starter even though last years performance earned him a starting role somewhere.

So yes MC is the better back up QB. That doesn't make him the better QB overall.
 
Actually, I admire players who find a way to win despite the supposed lack of athletic talent. I'm much happier with the Bradys of the world than the Bledsoes. It's one of the many things you've gotten wrong in this post, though, so I'm not surprised. The offense is significantly changed, yet you say that it's the same. You claim the only difference is based upon adaptations, yet how can that be if it's the quarterbacks throwing in the exact same system?

That really shows me all I need to know about how you are letting your bias dictate on this subject. There's really no need to go further with it, given that. I will, however, wait anxiously for your dissertation on how BB incorporating elements of the spread offense affected no change change on "the core" though.


Not exactly sure what point you're trying to make. Other than you view system and scheme as one in the same. They are not. Within a system any number of schemes can be in operation. Belichick's system is fundamantal at it's core, not ever to be confused with static. Just like on defense. Belichick is the polar opposite of the HC who says we do what we do and it's up to you to beat it or stop it. Belichick says we analyze what you do and we're focus on doing some things you won't expect or will struggle by nature to handle. Most teams struggle to change their scheme up season to season. Here players have to have the capacity to change it up week to week. But it's the scheme within the system they are changing, not the system. The system is the core fundamentals like protecting the football, making good decisions, executing with discipline.

Bledsoe couldn't execute within Belichick's system at it's most fundamantal level. What would lead you to believe he could therefore execute within it at it's most developed point schematically elludes me. You see more weapons that were better suited to his skillset. What you fail to see is those weapons are still required to execute fundamentally according to scheme. Moss may be a decoy one week and not available as Drew's go to guy... Drew would struggle with that conceptually if Moss became his binky, which is why he got benched in Dallas. He was told to execute a specific play to TO, but he THOUGHT he saw an opening to hit Glen on the opposite side of the field. Even if it had worked, Tuna would have been pissed. When it didn't, he had had it.

Before they knew what they had in Brady, Belichick had Scott Pioli and Ernie Adams rewrite the manual for what skillset a QB for the NEP had to encompass. It focused on the capacity to make good and quick decisions under pressure while protecting the football. In his last start as a NEP Drew had one of his worst performances although the stat line didn't necessarily reflect that. What the coaches saw was his poor judgement on display in a game they assumed would be closely contested against a division opponent After Bill and Charlie decided to go for a TD on 4th and 1 from the goal line, he committed a delay of game penalty. In the first half within a four minute stretch he had an intentional grounding penalty and threw an INT in JETS territory. Points and field position matter to BB. A QB who repeatedly costs you both is not a fit for his system. Particularly when his errors are often mental as opposed to physical and he makes the same errors over and over. Everybody will miss a throw or make a mistake, what BB cannot tolerate is the guy who makes the same mistake routinely and cannot seem to correct it. Because it is part of who they are and it is entrenched. Belichick and Ernie also had a book on defending Beldsoe based on years of observation when they were with the JETS. They knew his achilles heal was inaccuracy born of impatience and confusion.

You look at the gunslinger as a guy capable of winning you a game you had no business winning. Belichick sees that guy as one who will also cost you a game you had no business losing. He admires their talent. He just chooses not to deal with it's downside. He prefers to work with guys who are coachable, versatile and willing to adapt, who will execute his specific game plan (tailored to beat a specific opponent) with discipline, because he believes if they do that they will win more predictably and consistently. He's not comfortable with freelancers. That said, sometimes a player is given greater latitude to make a play. But that is earned based on his track record for making good instinctive decisions. Guys with a 50/50 track record (or less...) - he'd prefer they just adhere to his plan because the systems track record is a lot better than that...
 
My gut tells me if the question was "Who is the backup to Brady on the ALL TIME Patriots team?", the answer for most would be Cassel, so who's kidding who here.

Your gut's wrong, since most of the people who think Cassel's the all-decade backup (myself included) have already stated that, if you make this an all-time thing, Bledsoe's #2.
 
Last edited:
Your gut's wrong, since most of the people who think Cassel's the all-decade backup (myself included) have already stated that, if you make this an all-time thing, Bledsoe's #2.

The real issue here is an error on my part in that I read the question wrong from jump.

Drew never was, will or would be relegated to back up duty.

The entire time he played in the NFL, he was a starter, not some washed up has been who tried to hang on by being a back up or some second rate QB who couldn't cut it as a starter.

He was a starter from the day he turned pro till the day he retired.
 
The real issue here is an error on my part in that I read the question wrong from jump.

Drew never was, will or would be relegated to back up duty.

The entire time he played in the NFL, he was a starter, not some washed up has been who tried to hang on by being a back up or some second rate QB who couldn't cut it as a starter.

He was a starter from the day he turned pro till the day he retired.

Except for the year that he got a ring. He was a backup that year
 
Last edited:
Not exactly sure what point you're trying to make. Other than you view system and scheme as one in the same. They are not. Within a system any number of schemes can be in operation. Belichick's system is fundamantal at it's core, not ever to be confused with static. Just like on defense. Belichick is the polar opposite of the HC who says we do what we do and it's up to you to beat it or stop it. Belichick says we analyze what you do and we're focus on doing some things you won't expect or will struggle by nature to handle. Most teams struggle to change their scheme up season to season. Here players have to have the capacity to change it up week to week. But it's the scheme within the system they are changing, not the system. The system is the core fundamentals like protecting the football, making good decisions, executing with discipline.

Bledsoe couldn't execute within Belichick's system at it's most fundamantal level. What would lead you to believe he could therefore execute within it at it's most developed point schematically elludes me. You see more weapons that were better suited to his skillset. What you fail to see is those weapons are still required to execute fundamentally according to scheme. Moss may be a decoy one week and not available as Drew's go to guy... Drew would struggle with that conceptually if Moss became his binky, which is why he got benched in Dallas. He was told to execute a specific play to TO, but he THOUGHT he saw an opening to hit Glen on the opposite side of the field. Even if it had worked, Tuna would have been pissed. When it didn't, he had had it.

Before they knew what they had in Brady, Belichick had Scott Pioli and Ernie Adams rewrite the manual for what skillset a QB for the NEP had to encompass. It focused on the capacity to make good and quick decisions under pressure while protecting the football. In his last start as a NEP Drew had one of his worst performances although the stat line didn't necessarily reflect that. What the coaches saw was his poor judgement on display in a game they assumed would be closely contested against a division opponent After Bill and Charlie decided to go for a TD on 4th and 1 from the goal line, he committed a delay of game penalty. In the first half within a four minute stretch he had an intentional grounding penalty and threw an INT in JETS territory. Points and field position matter to BB. A QB who repeatedly costs you both is not a fit for his system. Particularly when his errors are often mental as opposed to physical and he makes the same errors over and over. Everybody will miss a throw or make a mistake, what BB cannot tolerate is the guy who makes the same mistake routinely and cannot seem to correct it. Because it is part of who they are and it is entrenched. Belichick and Ernie also had a book on defending Beldsoe based on years of observation when they were with the JETS. They knew his achilles heal was inaccuracy born of impatience and confusion.

You look at the gunslinger as a guy capable of winning you a game you had no business winning. Belichick sees that guy as one who will also cost you a game you had no business losing. He admires their talent. He just chooses not to deal with it's downside. He prefers to work with guys who are coachable, versatile and willing to adapt, who will execute his specific game plan (tailored to beat a specific opponent) with discipline, because he believes if they do that they will win more predictably and consistently. He's not comfortable with freelancers. That said, sometimes a player is given greater latitude to make a play. But that is earned based on his track record for making good instinctive decisions. Guys with a 50/50 track record (or less...) - he'd prefer they just adhere to his plan because the systems track record is a lot better than that...

I'm not sure that it's possible to be more wrong about my thoughts and beliefs than you were in this post, so I'll just let it stand as is and end the discussion. It's abundantly clear that you have no intention of actually putting aside your bias, so this will do nothing but go in circles.
 
Last edited:
Did you "love it" when Patjew misspelled it too?

Didn't think so.

But hey, Drew got traded away the following year after the 2001 Super Bowl, Brady has led the team to two more Super Bowl wins, one AFCCG loss (one more than Drew who was 2-0 in AFCCG's), and one Super Bowl loss (the same number of SB losses that Drew had).

And be sure to get back to me when Cassel;

a.) Passes for over 40,000 yards
b.) Throws 300 TD passes
c.) Plays 14 years in the league
d.) Gets to a pro bowl


Drew was the youngest QB to make it to the Pro Bowl at 22 and the youngest QB to get to 10,000 yards at 23.

Oh and one other thing; get back to me when Cassel actually beats a good team.

I'll be patiently waiting.

(Did I spell patiently correctly professor?)..........

Are you that sensitive that you cant laugh at yourself when you make a mistake? I knew it was a typo, and i have many in every post. You dont find it ironic? Lighten up, its only a message board, Im not Ochocinco.

All those things about Drew are fine. Im not taking any away. I am talking specifically about 2000-01
 
Yes, my pointing out that his early years caused him to be too reliant on the tight end position is clearly not pointing to any weakness of Bledsoe in his later career.

You two really need to get past the anti-Bledsoe thing. Bledsoe was far from perfect, but Cassel's next win against a top flight opponent will be his first.

Your selectively responding to only posts that help you propogate your incorrect position is classic.
You accused me of having an agenda, i asked you to find another thread EVER where I have criticized Bledsoe. You know you can't, you know that proves I have no agenda, you hide from the post. For a guy who posts with as much arrogance as you do, you certainly argue like a coward.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Patriots News 04-19, Countdown To Draft Day
Patriots News 04-19, Countdown To Draft Day
Steve Balestrieri
14 hours ago
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 6 – A Week Before the Draft
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/13
Patriots News 04-12, What To Watch For In The NFL Draft
MORSE: Pre-Draft Patriots News and Notes
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 5
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 5
Mark Morse
2 weeks ago
Patriots Part Ways with Another Linebacker as Offseason Roster Shake-Up Continues
Patriots News 04-05, Mock Draft 2.0, Patriots Look For OL Depth
MORSE: 18 Game Schedule and Other Patriots Notes
TRANSCRIPT: Mike Vrabel Press Conference at the League Meetings 3/31
Back
Top