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Pats draft not that bizarre

VJCPatriot

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I was flipping through an NFL draft magazine on the news stand yesterday and I noticed the following players the Pats took were rated as top 10 players at the position by the magazine.

Defensive Tackle - Ron Brace
Safety - Patrick Chung
Cornerback - Darius Butler
Linebacker - Tyrone Mckenzie
Wide Receiver - Brandon Tate


So the Pats actually drafted FIVE guys who were rated top 10 at their position by a draft magazine publication. Sure the Pats took some guys who were off the radar, but their picks aren't as unorthodox as people think.

I just think that people get thrown off too easily by the names they don't recognize. That doesn't mean that the Pats had a bad draft, it just means that they use their own in house scouting and that scouting department has actually done a pretty good job over the years.
 
I don't think it was bizarre at all. Chung, Brace, Butler & McKenzie were all touted as good fits by many posters here before the draft (and Tate had plenty of fans too before the drug test news). In term of the overall shape of the draft, there was an oft-repeated refrain that this class featured a strong plateau of talent from roughly #20-#50, and the Pats maneuvered to collect 3 of those players inexpensively while stocking up on extra day-1 picks for next year. Plus there were pre-draft reports that they intended to load up on OLs, and they did.

So I'd say the big surprises were just these two:

1. Vollmer over Beatty at #58

2. No OLB
 
So I'd say the big surprises were just these two:

1. Vollmer over Beatty at #58

2. No OLB
Vollmer was a surprise, but not an unwelcome one...Beatty actually would have been more of a surprise for me.

The other point wasn't a surprise either, it just has me wondering what factors are being sought for the position?
 
At one time I had Beatty as their 1st round selection (#23), but the more I learned about Beatty the less I liked him. Beatty has athleticism, I'll grant him that, but toughness and a committment to football was lacking. He also isn't very strong for an OL.

Vollmer has a bigger upside but also lacks in some of the same areas. Time will tell.
 
I don't think it was bizarre at all. Chung, Brace, Butler & McKenzie were all touted as good fits by many posters here before the draft (and Tate had plenty of fans too before the drug test news). In term of the overall shape of the draft, there was an oft-repeated refrain that this class featured a strong plateau of talent from roughly #20-#50, and the Pats maneuvered to collect 3 of those players inexpensively while stocking up on extra day-1 picks for next year. Plus there were pre-draft reports that they intended to load up on OLs, and they did.

So I'd say the big surprises were just these two:

1. Vollmer over Beatty at #58

2. No OLB

I don't think it was bizarre at all either. It would have felt more bizarre if BB had actually taken who I thought we should take. But overall:

- I wanted OLB (specifically Barwin), and BB passed. He evidently liked what we had better. That was the only real surprise to me.
- I wanted S on the first day and BB took my #2 guy (Chung) one pick after my #1 guy (Delmas) went off the board.
- I wanted OL depth, including a 1st day OT. I wanted Beatty; BB preferred someone else. No big deal there. He added some depth at OG, again different players than what I had in mind, but that's not surprising.
- I wanted DL depth, including a 1st day pick. BB again picked someone different from who I had in mind, but the general direction was similar.
- I wanted a 3rd-4th round ILB for the rotation. My preferred candidate was Jason Williams, who went #68. McKenzie was next on my list. Unfortunately, there was no crystal ball about his ACL injury.
- I wanted a 3rd-4th round WR for the rotation. BB took Tate one pick ahead of my preferred guy (Mike Wallace). No problem with that.

I still like the guys I had targeted (Barwin, Delmas and Beatty) and will be curious to see how they do. Beatty and Delmas have had some good reviews coming out of their first minicamp. But I'm fine with who we got. My only real question is Ron Brace at 40 - if he is just a big space eating 2 down backup DT that seems like a pretty steep price, but if he can provide some versatility as well then he may be a steal.
 
At one time I had Beatty as their 1st round selection (#23), but the more I learned about Beatty the less I liked him. Beatty has athleticism, I'll grant him that, but toughness and a committment to football was lacking. He also isn't very strong for an OL.

Vollmer has a bigger upside but also lacks in some of the same areas. Time will tell.

I'm not sure where you're getting a lack of toughness, strength and commitment from. Beatty clearly is more of a finesse player than a nasty physical tackle at this point, but he did 30 reps on the bench press (and had the 2nd longest arms of any top OT candidate to boot) so he is not a weakling. He has outside interests and is the son of 2 pastors but the "lack of commitment" label seemed more manufactured than real to me. I think he may end up doing very well for the Giants - not a team known for taking finesse players.

Here's an early read from the NY Times on Beatty:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/10/sports/football/10giants.html?ref=football

BB obviously preferred Vollmer, and I'm 100% fine with that, but I still think Beatty will end up being a very good LT in 2-3 years.
 
No the 2009 Patriots draft was not bizarre at all.

In my view, the Patriots draft has been totally misunderstood. It was a meat-and-potatoes draft. It was a lineman draft above all else.

The Patriots drafted 6 linemen! Think about that. Almost an entire 7 seven selection draft devoted to beefing up both of the lines. Not that either line was bad. Indeed the Defensive line may be the best 3-4 line in the League. OTOH, the Offensive line is merely pretty damn good.

Well both are better now with a combination of high and low draft picks, for both lines. Lineman drafts are never fancy, but a year later the lineman drafting Teams usually "magically" improve.

Ron Brace "completes" the Patriots Defensive line. No more than 7 roster spots are dedicated to the Defensive line. There is now not a single player position that does not have a star starter and a very good playable substitute. For years Bill has been searching for a reserve NT. There are even fair PS candidates too. Pryor was highly regarded at one time. And no one is over thirty! This Defensive line will be even better in the future. It hasn't even fully reached it Prime yet!

The Offensive line has at least five good starters. Despite what critics say. The question is the depth. Inside Hochstein is game and adequate but his play is about average and not at good starter level. Yates is a gamer, but he is just a below average journeyman who tries hard. The situation is better at Tackle. Reserves Levoir, O'Calaghan and Britt are better than the reserves inside, or were.

Volmer drafted high becomes the sixth quality lineman. Levoir and Britt can serve as adequate reserves at both tackle positions and neither is hopeless trying to play Left tackle. O'Calaghan is a fair, near starter at RT only, as well.

The Patriots have added several interior candidates Johnson, Ohrnburger, Bussey and and if Kaczur is beat out at RT he can move inside adding a starter quality reserve there. Many thought he was a Guard when drafted, but he has held his own at both RT and LT too. The addition of Volmer appears to be the key to adding a lot of flexibility and depth, at both Tackle but also Guard and Center too. i don't think much of Connelly, or the other interior PS guys. if Orhnburger or Bussey turn out to produce a keeper, the Offensive Line is full to overflowing, as well, but that is problematical.

In any case , the both lines will have greater depth, and perhaps a starter or two has been identified as well.
 
No the 2009 Patriots draft was not bizarre at all.

In my view, the Patriots draft has been totally misunderstood. It was a meat-and-potatoes draft. It was a lineman draft above all else.

The Patriots drafted 6 linemen! Think about that. Almost an entire 7 seven selection draft devoted to beefing up both of the lines. Not that either line was bad. Indeed the Defensive line may be the best 3-4 line in the League. OTOH, the Offensive line is merely pretty damn good.

Well both are better now with a combination of high and low draft picks, for both lines. Lineman drafts are never fancy, but a year later the lineman drafting Teams usually "magically" improve.

Ron Brace "completes" the Patriots Defensive line. No more than 7 roster spots are dedicated to the Defensive line. There is now not a single player position that does not have a star starter and a very good playable substitute. For years Bill has been searching for a reserve NT. There are even fair PS candidates too. Pryor was highly regarded at one time. And no one is over thirty! This Defensive line will be even better in the future. It hasn't even fully reached it Prime yet!

The Offensive line has at least five good starters. Despite what critics say. The question is the depth. Inside Hochstein is game and adequate but his play is about average and not at good starter level. Yates is a gamer, but he is just a below average journeyman who tries hard. The situation is better at Tackle. Reserves Levoir, O'Calaghan and Britt are better than the reserves inside, or were.

Volmer drafted high becomes the sixth quality lineman. Levoir and Britt can serve as adequate reserves at both tackle positions and neither is hopeless trying to play Left tackle. O'Calaghan is a fair, near starter at RT only, as well.

The Patriots have added several interior candidates Johnson, Ohrnburger, Bussey and and if Kaczur is beat out at RT he can move inside adding a starter quality reserve there. Many thought he was a Guard when drafted, but he has held his own at both RT and LT too. The addition of Volmer appears to be the key to adding a lot of flexibility and depth, at both Tackle but also Guard and Center too. i don't think much of Connelly, or the other interior PS guys. if Orhnburger or Bussey turn out to produce a keeper, the Offensive Line is full to overflowing, as well, but that is problematical.

In any case , the both lines will have greater depth, and perhaps a starter or two has been identified as well.

I agree with your assessment to an extent, but would phrase it different. BB and a "draft within the draft" devoted solely to the lines. But with 2 of our top 3 picks spent on the secondary, I'm not sure I would say that it was "a lineman draft above all else". I think that BB added playmakers to the secondary and depth to the lines, and then added a few pieces here and there with his remaining picks (McKenzie at ILB, Tate at WR, etc.).
 
The draft wasn't bizarre at all. All seven of our first seven picks were highly graded by Gosselin (the draft guru I respect after Belichick). All seven fit needs that we discussed here ad nauseum before the draft, including special team help.
====================================
Our second round players had Gosselin ratings that ranged from #28 to #76. The only one that was a bit of a reach was Vollmer at 58 (76 on the value board). But tackles are often drafted a bit earlier than their overall talent. Butler was a first rounder on Gosselin's value board.

Our third and fourth round players were a question mark (Tate), a bargain (Ohrenberger the #80 player at 123) and one right on at his value (McKenzie). Tate was not in Gosselin's top 100, persumably because of his injury and off the field issues.

We got the normal assortment of long-shot five late rounders. Ingam seems to fit a need, competition for our only full-time long snapper. He was the best available in the draft at his position.

After the draft, we added Hoyer and Appleby who we easily could have drafted in the 6th or 7th rounds. They seem to have a better chance at the 53-man roster than anyone after the fourth except for Ingram.
=====================================
MY SURPRISES
1) There were so few surprises. Once one understood that Belichick was happy with our linebacker situation, the draft made a lot of sense in all its picks.
2) Tate doesn't seem to be a patriot-type pick.
3) No matter how many times we tried to understand, it was still a surprise that we drafted only one linebacker, a 3rd round developmental ILB (we think).
4) I expected a DE rather than a NT, but was happy to get DL depth.
 
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At one time I had Beatty as their 1st round selection (#23), but the more I learned about Beatty the less I liked him. Beatty has athleticism, I'll grant him that, but toughness and a committment to football was lacking. He also isn't very strong for an OL.

Vollmer has a bigger upside but also lacks in some of the same areas. Time will tell.

Beatty is very strong for an OL. 28 reps and very very long arms. He was toward the top of the weightlifting charts for tackles. I bet the Giants got a very good tackle.

Here's something people don't realize. If you aren't out partying all the time, you actually do have time for pursuits other than football. The kid is an artist. Now, how much time do you think going to nightclubs and chasing girls is going to take out of player's life?
 
Vollmer was a surprise, but not an unwelcome one...Beatty actually would have been more of a surprise for me.

The other point wasn't a surprise either, it just has me wondering what factors are being sought for the position?

I do not think Vollmer is any surprise at all. I had him in my mock draft because he is a large man that excels in the zone blocking scheme.

And while he is relatively new to the game and had major back surgery, I think he projects as a solid backup next season before eventually becoming an above average starter. A poor man's Logan Mankins only at OT.

Whoever got Beatty got a really "nice", "spiritual" guy. And that is the worst thing I could ever say about a player who will engage in trench warfare in the NFL. Some coach is going to need to light a fire under this guy, and keep it constantly going, because he is way too nice and more finesse than nasty.
 
I do not think Vollmer is any surprise at all. I had him in my mock draft because he is a large man that excels in the zone blocking scheme.

And while he is relatively new to the game and had major back surgery, I think he projects as a solid backup next season before eventually becoming an above average starter. A poor man's Logan Mankins only at OT.

Whoever got Beatty got a really "nice", "spiritual" guy. And that is the worst thing I could ever say about a player who will engage in trench warfare in the NFL. Some coach is going to need to light a fire under this guy, and keep it constantly going, because he is way too nice and more finesse than nasty.

I think Beatty will end up being a good OT. Edsall had no problems with him and says that he has a "mean streak" under his "nice" veneer, and Beatty said that Coughlin reminded him of Edsall. Coughlin is one tough SOB and will not put up with softness. If the G-men took Beatty it's because they believe they can motivate him, or that the "soft" label is false.

I agree with you on Vollmer. I like your "poor man's Mankins" at OT comparison.
 
I do not think Vollmer is any surprise at all. I had him in my mock draft because he is a large man that excels in the zone blocking scheme.
I had considered him, but finally just left him as an unanswered question because I was unable to get a firm handle on where to value him with the information available. Despite the strong advocacy Beatty had, I never saw the fit for NE.
 
Well it's safe to say that New England had the best 2nd round of any team in the draft, seeing as they took 4 picks there, but from the way people were reacting on draft day, it seemed as if the Pats drafted aliens or something. Looking it over objectively and comparing it to a draft magazine, it hardly looks like a bizarre draft imo.
 
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I do not think Vollmer is any surprise at all. I had him in my mock draft because he is a large man that excels in the zone blocking scheme.

Sorry, I should clarify: Vollmer wasn't a surprise per se, Vollmer on day 1 was the surprise.
 
The draft wasn't bizarre at all. All seven of our first seven picks were highly graded by Gosselin (the draft guru I respect after Belichick). All seven fit needs that we discussed here ad nauseum before the draft, including special team help.
====================================
Our second round players had Gosselin ratings that ranged from #28 to #76. The only one that was a bit of a reach was Vollmer at 58 (76 on the value board). But tackles are often drafted a bit earlier than their overall talent. Butler was a first rounder on Gosselin's value board.

Our third and fourth round players were a question mark (Tate), a bargain (Ohrenberger the #80 player at 123) and one right on at his value (McKenzie). Tate was not in Gosselin's top 100, persumably because of his injury and off the field issues.

We got the normal assortment of long-shot five late rounders. Ingam seems to fit a need, competition for our only full-time long snapper. He was the best available in the draft at his position.

After the draft, we added Hoyer and Appleby who we easily could have drafted in the 6th or 7th rounds. They seem to have a better chance at the 53-man roster than anyone after the fourth except for Ingram.
=====================================
MY SURPRISES
1) There were so few surprises. Once one understood that Belichick was happy with our linebacker situation, the draft made a lot of sense in all its picks.
2) Tate doesn't seem to be a patriot-type pick.
3) No matter how many times we tried to understand, it was still a surprise that we drafted only one linebacker, a 3rd round developmental ILB (we think).
4) I expected a DE rather than a NT, but was happy to get DL depth.

I think you summarize my thinking about this draft, pretty well. Except that you keep making the assumption that BB will let Richard Seymour walk. And that is why you wanted a DE,despite having Jarvis Green, Matt Wright and LeKevin Smith as DE reserves.

In my eye, "Foundation linemen" are never let go. These guys are future HOF players who may not even get all the celebrity on a defensive line, but they are key to its success. They make everyone else, as well as themselves better. Bob Liily, Alan Page, Merlin Olsen, Dan Hampton and Richard Seymour are all "Foundation Linemen". What is more Belichick feels the same way. He payed Seymour "Haynesworth money", four years ago, and will do so readily once again.

I also think that this was a Lineman, draft. After all most teams have 7 selections; the Pats drafted 6 linemen and actually 7, if you consider the ST Center and LS Ingram is a "lineman".

I also think this was the culmination draft of Belichick's rebuilding of his Defense. His Defensive line is now complete 1 through 7. His CB position is 6 deep before you get to the scrubs. His Safety position is five deep before you get to the Spann and Ventrose types.

Even the LBs corps, with only a single ILB drafted is "complete" if you grant that BB was not blowing smoke when he said he liked his own transitioning OLB candidates better than the slower, smaller draft possibilities. At ILB it is clear that Mayo, Guyton have shown abilities on the Field last season. its easier as rook there. McKenzie is the designated replacement when Tedy retires. Even Appleby may be the two-down thumper specialist, also.

At OLB it takes 2 or 3 years to develop one. You can't afford to pay a top pick big dollars while the candidate spends his entire contract learning and playing only in spots. Either you have to start with low price, but talented candidates, and groom; or buy fully developed veterans.

BB has done the second alternative, with Colvin and AD. Now he is embarked on the first course. It appears that he is succeeding, but we haven't seen it on the field, yet, although the most advanced Woods, did inherit/earn a starting position and pushed the old incumbant to the other OLB position and then off the team.

In Woods 6-5 250, Crabel 6-5 245, Redd 6-6 255, Craig 6-5 245, he has OLB trainees with ideal measurements. AD Thomas and TBC are both veterans that have been proven to fit the Pats OLB qualifications, at different talent levels, even if not ideally sized for the position. That makes 6 OLBs and 3 /4 ILBs on a roster usually alowing 9 or 10 LBs. And not a single one is a ST only player as it use to be with Izzo, Alexander and others. That is not to say that Woods, and TBC and maybe others are not fine ST players, but they are mainly Defense players as well.

I like this big, young, fast, mean Defense. Especially when it produced a TopTen/Top Eight Defense when it was even more raw, and inured last season.
 
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You mentioned Craig, Wasn't he and BARWIN on the same team two years ago,, anyone know if there was any relation between the two in their production whilst a Bearcat??

Did Barwin play Craigs position and perform the same , better,,,
Or unrelated??

In Woods 6-5 250, Crabel 6-5 245, Redd 6-6 255, Craig 6-5 245, he has OLB trainees with ideal measurements. AD Thomas and TBC are both veterans that have been proven to fit the Pats OLB qualifications, at different talent levels, even if not ideally sized for the position. That makes 6 OLBs and 3 /4 ILBs on a roster usually alowing 9 or 10 LBs.
 
You mentioned Craig, Wasn't he and B***** on the same team two years ago,, anyone know if there was any relation between the two in their production whilst a Bearcat??

Did B***** play Craigs position and perform the same , better,,,
Or unrelated??

You have just mentioned, he who shall not be named, until he joins the Patriots! :banned:
 
I do not think Vollmer is any surprise at all. I had him in my mock draft because he is a large man that excels in the zone blocking scheme.

And while he is relatively new to the game and had major back surgery, I think he projects as a solid backup next season before eventually becoming an above average starter. A poor man's Logan Mankins only at OT.

Whoever got Beatty got a really "nice", "spiritual" guy. And that is the worst thing I could ever say about a player who will engage in trench warfare in the NFL. Some coach is going to need to light a fire under this guy, and keep it constantly going, because he is way too nice and more finesse than nasty.

I respect your opinions. But I think Belichick is hoping with a few years of playing experience, Sea Bass could move to LOT and provide BOTH pass rush protection, and great run blocking. Most LOTs can't do that. And Beatty is typical of them. I always recall Belichick saying you draft LOTs high, and fill the rest of the positions with lower picks... So if he drafted Volmer high, passing over the LOT, perhaps he or Dante see something deeper.
 
You mentioned Craig, Wasn't he and BARWIN on the same team two years ago,, anyone know if there was any relation between the two in their production whilst a Bearcat??

Did Barwin play Craigs position and perform the same , better,,,
Or unrelated??
Craig played LB and DE while at Cincy, he also played on the Basketball team as a walk-on when they recruited him and Connor. Connor was converted from TE to fill the void Craig left when he graduated. Craig had 7 sacks to Barwin's 12, but he had more experience as a LB.
 
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