College DE to 3-4 Defense projections

[Box_O_Rocks]

Selvie did not have a stellar season. The all-American teams overrated him on his Soph. performance. He wasn't even one of the top 2 DE's in the Big East, if you ask me.

He played all season with a bum ankle, probably the factor that led him to stay and try and rebuild his draft stock.

 

[upstater1]

He played all season with a bum ankle, probably the factor that led him to stay and try and rebuild his draft stock.

Sorry, I didn't know that. I watched him play in a few games and the announcers didn't mention it.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Sorry, I didn't know that. I watched him play in a few games and the announcers didn't mention it.

No worries, I had been wondering what his story was too. I hope for his sake it all works out.

 

[MetalBleachers]

Watched Selvie in the magicjack.com Tampa Bowl (I remember the name because my father lived in Tampa and he's Jack. More useless info!). Though I like what he was able to do, I wonder if he's too slight to play OLB in the 3-4? I know he'll bulk up, but he didn't seem to have the frame to take that much more weight.

Box? Thoughts?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Watched Selvie in the magicjack.com Tampa Bowl (I remember the name because my father lived in Tampa and he's Jack. More useless info!). Though I like what he was able to do, I wonder if he's too slight to play OLB in the 3-4? I know he'll bulk up, but he didn't seem to have the frame to take that much more weight.

Box? Thoughts?

Unless he changes his mind by tomorrow, the point is moot since he'll be playing his senior year - that said, yes, he looks slight, but remember this kid has been taking on OTs consistently so he's got something going for him.

 

[AzPatsFan]

We agree to disagree about Lauranitis. I think he is a 15 year red/blue chip player in the NFL.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

We agree to disagree about Lauranitis. I think he is a 15 year red/blue chip player in the NFL.

At what position and in what defensive scheme?

 

[AzPatsFan]

At both ILBs, SILB and WILB, and the flexibility to swing to OLB, flexibility that BB always seeks. He is a probable 3 down ILB, as he is good against the pass with his 4.55 - 4.6 speed, just like Mayo. Most ILBs are too slow if big; or to small if fast, for the two gap 3-4. He fits on both criteria.

That would cement the LB corps for a decade. His speed would help shut down the short pass over the middle. He is a very smart, film room rat, and strives to get better. BB wants intelligent players who comprehend the Defense and could call/set the D, if needed. The position that BB prefers to do this, is the ILB since their voice would carry over the whole D. Sure Mayo appear to be able to do so, but what if he goes down?

I agree that there may be better pure 2 down SILBs, like Maualuga. Who wants 'em, I don't as high draft picks. They are situation substitutes for 2nd day selection. Teams have gotten smart, they pass on 2nd down when the 2-down, poor pass defenders are in.

The Pats would probably like a great SS to help the pass but the cupboard is bare, in this draft other than maybe Moore, since the one sure blue chipper, Mays is not coming out.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

At both ILBs, SILB and WILB, and the flexibility to swing to OLB, flexibility that BB always seeks. He is a probable 3 down ILB, as he is good against the pass with his 4.55 - 4.6 speed, just like Mayo. Most ILBs are too slow if big; or to small if fast, for the two gap 3-4. He fits on both criteria.

That would cement the LB corps for a decade. His speed would help shut down the short pass over the middle. He is a very smart, film room rat, and strives to get better. BB wants intelligent players who comprehend the Defense and could call/set the D, if needed. The position that BB prefers to do this, is the ILB since their voice would carry over the whole D. Sure Mayo appear to be able to do so, but what if he goes down?

I agree that there may be better pure 2 down SILBs, like Maualuga. Who wants 'em, I don't as high draft picks. They are situation substitutes for 2nd day selection. Teams have gotten smart, they pass on 2nd down when the 2-down, poor pass defenders are in.

The Pats would probably like a great SS to help the pass but the cupboard is bare, in this draft other than maybe Moore, since the one sure blue chipper, Mays is not coming out.

If you'd said 4-3 MLB/WLB I'd have agreed. 3-4? I don't see it, Laurinaitis just doesn't demonstrate the stack & shed skills I'm looking for in NE's 3-4.

While we're on the subject: I'll be watching the East's Robert Francois (6024/243) and Orion Martin (6022/253) in the Shrine game as possible ILBs for NE. I've liked what I saw of Anthony Felder playing ILB for California (and the West), but at 231 he's probably not going to be a good fit inside NE's 3-4.

 

[MetalBleachers]

If you'd said 4-3 MLB/WLB I'd have agreed. 3-4? I don't see it, Laurinaitis just doesn't demonstrate the stack & shed skills I'm looking for in NE's 3-4.

While we're on the subject: I'll be watching the East's Robert Francois (6024/243) and Orion Martin (6022/253) in the Shrine game as possible ILBs for NE. I've liked what I saw of Anthony Felder playing ILB for California (and the West), but at 231 he's probably not going to be a good fit inside NE's 3-4.

I think I saw a "stack & shed" at Home Depot!
Thank you! I'm here all week!

Onto your players to watch, I was surprised at Francois' size. He's a heady player who may be a little outmatched, quickness-wise, but he could prove productive in the right system. Isn't Martin a conversion project?

P.S. -this is in the Draft Forum: The National Football Post | East West Shrine Game Report 2

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I think I saw a "stack & shed" at Home Depot!
Thank you! I'm here all week!

Onto your players to watch, I was surprised at Francois' size. He's a heady player who may be a little outmatched, quickness-wise, but he could prove productive in the right system. Isn't Martin a conversion project?

P.S. -this is in the Draft Forum: The National Football Post | East West Shrine Game Report 2

A little outmatched quickness-wise can also be read as 'plays better in a phonebooth' or at ILB in a 3-4. The question will be how well he holds up when engaged by blockers, particularly OL. We already know he's been a decent playmaker for BC who has some ability in coverage (for those 1st & 2nd down pass plays).

Martin has played both LB and DE, that means he's had more opportunity to use his hands to disengage from OL, a skill NE's LBs need. Most LB prospects NE drafts will have to be converted, so I'll be looking for his ball awareness and ability to play downhill, as well as his ability to shop Home Depot.

 

[SteveKiner]

Only saw a couple of Badger games this year but I was paying attention to him specifically. While I'm not sure what his timed speed is, he doesn't play overly fast. Seems like a high effort guy and plays all over the field. Nice consolation prize if the Pats don't address OLB on the first day, but I wouldn't consider him in the 2nd round due to limited upside. Maybe with the Asante comp pick or see if he slide into the 4th round.

Matt Shaughnessy.
He seemed to play alot quicker and with much more agility before his injuries. ACL late Frosh and Junior years and broken fibula last spring. If he could get back to 100% health he could be a real find. Right now, however, he projects more as a 4-3 DE.

 

[dryheat44]

One nice thing I discovered in browsing some sites is that the good folks at DraftTek rank players in both 3-4 and 4-3 defenses. Of course, he made a typo and has two rankings for 4-3 ends, but I think you can tell which one is the 3-4 DE rankings (Hint: It isn't the one with Orakpo and Brown at the top)

Draft Tek 2009 Play List

 

[patsfaninpa]

What do you guys think of Aaron Maybin - PSU. He played de in a 4-3.
Never asked to drop into coverage. Looks like he might be able to grow into
an elite pass-rusher. Not sure how he can play in space. Has never been
asked to. He's got a great motor. Good kid. I think he made a mistake coming
out a year early. I know production is a big part of our evaluation. More so than
projection. Doesn't seem like our type of profile. I doubt if he plays much in 09.
So, If we only have one 1st rounder. I don't think we take him. But, if we get
Minny's 1st for Cassel. I think we'd have to consider him if he's on the board.
Closest comp I can think of is Manny Lawson.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Here is a guy we could get in the late rounds who I think could be great off the edge.

(ca.youtube.com/watch?v=7eGhB0hYnAM]YouTube - Oregon State DE Victor Butler) I cannot post a link until 50 post but put "http:" in front of the link and it has Butler's highlights from the Sun Bowl

Victor Butler (Oregon St.) I watched this kid in the Sun Bowl against Pitt (I love defense so the 3-0 score I thought was great). This kid lived in the backfield and should have been arrested for the assault he put on Pitt's OT's. This kid is not that big but I think has room to put another 10 lbs on and play at 6'2 245 at the NFL level without much loss in speed. He is fast and is doing quite well at the East West Shrine practices converting to OLB from a 4-3 DE. Here is a quote I found on how he was doing this week.

"01/14/09 - East-West Shrine Tuesday practice: West defensive ends Nick Reed (Oregon) and Victor Butler (Oregon State) are two players trying to find their pro position this week. Both played with their hand down and as a sam linebacker. Butler was physical on the line against tight ends and has a burst to close in coverage; looks like he'll be moving to the second level in the pros." Chad Reuter, The SportsXchange, NFL Draft Scout