We NEED Jeff Garcia

[PatsWickedPissah]

Hey trust me, I agree the defense was MUCH more embarrassing then Cassel today, but had he made any impact whatsoever on offense the team would have had much better momentum leading to better play by the defense.

Taking your attempt at a point literally, you would have sat Tom Brady in 2001 after his 2nd start that was a rout loss (NO TD for Brady). Remember, you would NOT have had the benefit of foresight.

Thinking before you start a thread does NOT hurt. Really, it doesn't.

 

[sieglo]

We definitely need Garcia. Garcia is the only QB in the league who can also line up on D and stop the option play.

 

[emoney_33]

I'd like to see them at least take steps towards making someone else the starter.

Two things are bothering me with this board right now:

1) It's true Cassel didn't allow 38 points, but that's irrelevant. If the defense had only allowed the Dolphins to get say, 14, Cassel still wouldn't have been able to regain the lead. Today we saw Cassel come out with the chance to go score for score with someone and he failed. He did very little to actually advance the ball or make plays.

2) To suggest Cassel needs to go doesn't make you less of a Patriots fan than to be happy with him. I'm sick of people saying things like "you must be a 2007 fan" to legitimate points that are being made. Make arguments instead.

There is no legitimate point to be made after one game. The greatest QB of all time has had worse games. Not to mention how bad the OL played.

Nobody is saying if you criticize Cassel you are less of a fan, but these knee-jerk over-the-top overreactions based on ONE game is friggin ridiculous. We are trying to give you guys some perspective, which you have none if you believe Cassel should be gone based on today's game.

 

[VOODOOZF]

Don't get me wrong I am pulling for Cassel, but it seems that Garcia would be a huge upgrade at the moment.

 

[CheerforTom]

Another thing that I haven't seen acknowledged here is that although the official record says Cassel threw one pick, he pretty much threw three.

One was cancelled by an unrelated penalty and one bounced off of the hands of a safety who should have caught it.

I'm curious as to what this board's reaction would be if Cassel was 1/3 instead of 1/1.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

We definitely need Garcia. Garcia is the only QB in the league who can also line up on D and stop the option play.

OK. Now I'm convinced. Who knew?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Another thing that I haven't seen acknowledged here is that although the official record says Cassel threw one pick, he pretty much threw three.

One was cancelled by an unrelated penalty and one bounced off of the hands of a safety who should have caught it.

I'm curious as to what this board's reaction would be if Cassel was 1/3 instead of 1/1.

In that alternate universe we (I) would have said that Cassel's terrible play contributed to the 56 - 6 team loss.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I'd like to see them at least take steps towards making someone else the starter.

2) To suggest Cassel needs to go doesn't make you less of a Patriots fan than to be happy with him. I'm sick of people saying things like "you must be a 2007 fan" to legitimate points that are being made. Make arguments instead.

The problem is that a lot of people are making the argument "He didn't get the job done, so therefore he can't get the job done." It's not a provable fact. To be fair, neither is the argument "He didn't get the job done today, but he can do it in the future." But, for better or for worse, both of them have the same flaw--they can't be proven a priori, only in retrospect.

And, just to play Devil's advocate for a moment--what if the Pats do trade for a new starter, and STILL don't make the playoffs?

 

[CheerforTom]

There is no legitimate point to be made after one game. The greatest QB of all time has had worse games. Not to mention how bad the OL played.

Nobody is saying if you criticize Cassel you are less of a fan, but these knee-jerk over-the-top overreactions based on ONE game is friggin ridiculous. We are trying to give you guys some perspective, which you have none if you believe Cassel should be gone based on today's game.

Until Cassel has at least one great game (multiple TDs not in garbage time) I don't really think he deserves the benefit of the doubt here, let alone comparison to the greatest QB of all time. As for the O-line, it's true that the right side (Kaczur) did pretty badly but at least Garcia or O'Connell are more mobile.

I'm not saying Cassel should be removed, I'm just saying I wouldn't cry if he was.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

One was cancelled by an unrelated penalty

I dunno, but I think that when they call "roughing the passer" on a play that results in an INT, that the roughing had something to do with it. . . .

and one bounced off of the hands of a safety who should have caught it.

Of course, no Pats safety has ever had a sure INT bounce out of his hands.

 

[chech1965]

Please explain to me how Cassel is responsible for allowing Miami to put up 38 points? (waiting with bated breath)

He didn't keep the Miami offense off the field.

He showed no leadership, the gel that keeps both sides of the ball motivated and working.

The defense had an off day.

Cassel had a regular day.

We do need Garcia....but right now, I'd settle for giving O or Gutz a try.

 

[Deus Irae]

Until Cassel has at least one great game (multiple TDs not in garbage time) I don't really think he deserves the benefit of the doubt here, let alone comparison to the greatest QB of all time. As for the O-line, it's true that the right side (Kaczur) did pretty badly but at least Garcia or O'Connell are more mobile.

I'm not saying Cassel should be removed, I'm just saying I wouldn't cry if he was.

How many touchdowns have Garcia and O'Connell thrown for, or run in, this (regular) season?

 

[emoney_33]

Until Cassel has at least one great game (multiple TDs not in garbage time) I don't really think he deserves the benefit of the doubt here, let alone comparison to the greatest QB of all time. As for the O-line, it's true that the right side (Kaczur) did pretty badly but at least Garcia or O'Connell are more mobile.

I'm not saying Cassel should be removed, I'm just saying I wouldn't cry if he was.

Does BB deserve the benefit of the doubt? You don't even have to give Cassel the benefit of the doubt, just allow for enough time to be ABLE to properly judge him.

 

[CheerforTom]

I dunno, but I think that when they call "roughing the passer" on a play that results in an INT, that the roughing had something to do with it. . . .



Of course, no Pats safety has ever had a sure INT bounce out of his hands.

The roughing came because the guy drove Cassel into the ground after the ball was long gone. Last I checked pressuring the QB isn't a penalty.

Just because it's happened to us doesn't mean it shouldn't have been a pick.

 

[Wendel]

Taking your attempt at a point literally, you would have sat Tom Brady in 2001 after his 2nd start that was a rout loss (NO TD for Brady). Remember, you would NOT have had the benefit of foresight.

Thinking before you start a thread does NOT hurt. Really, it doesn't.

For the love of God STOP WITH THE BRADY/CASSEL first year starting comparisons. The situations are not alike, at all.

Cassel has a LOADED offense and is taking over a team that went 18-1 last year. Brady's top play maker was Troy Brown and was taking over a previously 5-11 team with no expectations.

Cassel has Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Jabar Gaffney, Maroney/Morris/Jordan and a majority Pro-Bowl offensive line. Let's dink and dunk though, it shows how much confidence the coaching staff has in the guy.

This is Cassel's fourth year in the system, Brady took over in his second. He has also had the benefit of playing 3 teams who had a combined 39 losses last year.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: We NEED Jeff Garcia.

As another topic just put it, THIS TEAM IS TOO GOOD NOT TO HAVE A PROVEN QB.

First you predict this team will go 5-11 with Cassel and then you say this team is too good not to have a proven QB. How does that make sense? If this team is that good at every position other than QB, how do you think this team can only win 3 more games in the next 13? If the team is that good other than Cassel, they should be able to go close to .500 the rest of the way even with him. The defense didn't give up 38 points because of Cassel. If this defense is that good, it should hold a lot of team under 14 points and Cassel has proven that he can score 17-18 point with this offense already.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The roughing came because the guy drove Cassel into the ground after the ball was long gone. Last I checked pressuring the QB isn't a penalty.

Just because it's happened to us doesn't mean it shouldn't have been a pick.

My point is simply that it happens ALL THE TIME, so why are you assigning special blame to Cassel for something that nearly every QB is guilty of on a regular basis?

 

[CheerforTom]

Does BB deserve the benefit of the doubt? You don't even have to give Cassel the benefit of the doubt, just allow for enough time to be ABLE to properly judge him.

I'm trying, it just gets harder every week

What you're saying is fair, I'm just not sure how much time is needed to properly judge him given that little has changed through 3 games aside from the very first drive he came in.

How many touchdowns have Garcia and O'Connell thrown for, or run in, this (regular) season?

Also fair. Garcia has excelled in two different systems in the last four or so years and O'Connell is just pure optimism based on the fact that we haven't seen much from him. I think a lot of us are just frustrated because we have such a talented wideout corps and it's tempting to think that anyone can throw to them.

 

[thewaylifeshouldbe]

For the love of God STOP WITH THE BRADY/CASSEL first year starting comparisons. The situations are not alike, at all.

Cassel has a LOADED offense and is taking over a team that went 18-1 last year. Brady's top play maker was Troy Brown and was taking over a previously 5-11 team with no expectations.

Cassel has Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Jabar Gaffney, Maroney/Morris/Jordan and a majority Pro-Bowl offensive line. Let's dink and dunk though, it shows how much confidence the coaching staff has in the guy.

This is Cassel's fourth year in the system, Brady took over in his second. He has also had the benefit of playing 3 teams who had a combined 39 losses last year.

Said better than most.

 

[CheerforTom]

My point is simply that it happens ALL THE TIME, so why are you assigning special blame to Cassel for something that nearly every QB is guilty of on a regular basis?

I'm not assigning special blame. Regardless of team or player, when that happens the QB has gotten lucky, including Brady.

I'm saying that it was a decision/pass that Cassel made that 4/5 times is picked off. Since it wasn't everyone forgets about it.