Yet another Brady argument thread

[All3Phases]

Ian agreed with me, over and over.
There is no need to correct OTC, just to correct your misunderstanding of it.

“He would have stayed if they had offered him a long-term deal. But Belichick finally decided to make a tough call and obviously,”- Ian

Sleep tight Ring!

 

[Ian]

I disagree. I see no evidence of him trying to stay.

You can disagree, but that's unfortunately what happened. He wanted a longer-term deal, and the issue became when the club added clauses/incentives and made him essentially fight for a contract where he was compensated accordingly, along with it being set up where it was essentially "year-to-year."

That, and the myriad of other issues relating to the day-to-day within the facility led to the comments regarding the lack of "feeling appreciated." Those words came directly from him.

The contract thing was absolutely an issue, and while it's disappointing, that essentially put a crack in the relationship. Don Yee's quote in 2018 was somewhat revealing, as he basically said that, yes, Brady does care about his contract, and it matters.

“His objective every year is to outperform his contract and his own goals,” said Yee when asked about his current deal by Schefter. “And like every player, yes, he thinks about his contract — it’s a pretty natural thing to do. Every team’s management knows this.”

It was clearly becoming a problem, and we found out after the fact that it was. Between that and the day-to-day things in the facility, that ended up being the final straw. That's why when he signed the final "extension" ahead of 2019, the final two years were voidable, which gave him the out. And yes, that's why he put his house up for sale ahead of that season.

So, if we split hairs, then yes, he wanted to leave heading into the 2019 season. But given everything that's come out since that entire fiasco - and I followed it pretty vividly - it wouldn't have reached that point. He would have stayed ahead of the 2018 season if they had given him a long-term deal that didn't involve him needing to essentially prove himself every season.

Curran has probably been the most plugged in there as he's close with Brady's family, and Edelman (he co-wrote Julian's book). The fact Brady was still treated like a new player was what frustrated him, with the contract being a frustrating point for him, and it ultimately led to the decision.

Again, it needed to happen the way that it did so the team sustained as little damage as possible $$-wise. But if we're arguing that Brady didn't want to stay, that's just not accurate. Ahead of 2019, that's true, but only because the damage was already done. However, it could have been prevented ahead of 2018 had they extended him with a deal that didn't involve the other things that went along with it.

Still, it ended up being a difficult strategy that ultimately allowed them to flip things faster after he left and it was the right approach, even if quite a few of us didn't like it at the time. It is what it is.

 

[Ian]

“He would have stayed if they had offered him a long-term deal. But Belichick finally decided to make a tough call and obviously,”- Ian

Sleep tight Ring!

That's unnecessary.

But the issue with them being able to keep him and still have the same level of talent wasn't possible. @Ring6 was absolutely correct there.

 

[Ian]

I actually think Belichick would have kept him until he couldn’t play. He just needed to do it wisely so he wouldn’t cripple the team when it was over.

Had Brady been willing to keep going year-to-year, I absolutely agree with this.

it’s funny the argument comes down to the belief that what Brady cared about was getting paid for years after he could still play. That’s so not Brady.
Why would he care about a guarantee. It’s only useful to pay you for not playing. He never doubted himself. It’s the red herring in all of this.

He cared, but to the point where he felt like he wasn't being treated like a guy who worked as hard as he did. I'm assuming there were other discussions that went along with it (I'm guessing Gisele, who as we know, holds little back in terms of how she feels about that sort of thing and let's be honest, those comments do matter when you're married ["You don't deserve that!"] - LOL, that sort of thing), but I think it wasn't necessarily the amount, just that he probably wanted to be able to play without worrying about his numbers, etc. and everything else involved.

Again, I don't think he cared about how much he was being paid. But the structure I think - and based on what came out after - was definitely an issue.

 

[All3Phases]

That's unnecessary.

But the issue with them being able to keep him and still have the same level of talent wasn't possible. @Ring6 was absolutely correct there.

Lol, just pointed out you agreed with my main argument. It’s an argument that went on about 20 pages too long

I always agreed the team wouldn’t have been the exact same, I think they would’ve been better if the correct moves were made. Of course, that’s just a guess

 

[Ian]

Lol, just pointed out you agreed with my main argument. It’s an argument that went on about 20 pages too long

Your original main argument was that it was financially possible for them to keep him and put all the other pieces around him, and @Ring6 rightly told you that wasn't the case.

The rest sort of spiraled into all of this that I agree, given that this all happened close to 4 years ago now, went on way too long

 

[All3Phases]

Your original main argument was that it was financially possible for them to keep him and put all the other pieces around him, and @Ring6 rightly told you that wasn't the case.

I think they could’ve, depending on the pieces. Like we have said, maybe you aren’t able to sign jonnu and ahgolor

I don’t think I ever implied they’re just swapping qbs with the exact same roster.

The rest sort of spiraled into all of this that I agree, given that this all happened close to 4 years ago now, went on way too long

I don’t start these discussions to be fair to me, I just join and never stop

 

[Ian]

I think they could’ve, depending on the pieces. Like we have said, maybe you aren’t able to sign jonnu and ahgolor

They could have put some, but not all, and it probably wouldn't have been enough. Which was the main point.

I don’t start these discussions to be fair to me, I just join and never stop

You may not have started the derailment, but I agree, you're definitely persistent

 

[All3Phases]

They could have put some, but not all, and it probably wouldn't have been enough. Which was the main point.

I agree they couldn’t have put all, if I remember correctly my original response was to somebody saying they’d have been .500 with Brady, which was my original refute

Edit: was a response to somebody saying they would’ve been “equally as bad from 20-22”

You may not have started the derailment, but I agree, you're definitely persistent

Not my best trait

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Who says they haggled over money?
Are you suggesting a blank check was the right move?
The organization has an obligation to its long term success not just keeping a player happy. Ultimately Brady hit the bucs cap for 47 million over 3 years and they have 35 million dead money.
Do you think the Patriots with 47 million less to spend the last 3 years, given their state on 2019 into 2020 (they would have had to clear 25 million in 2020 but cutting players) would have had any chance to win a SB? Of course not, and now we’d be sitting on 35 mill of dead money.
Emotionally it would have been great to open the vault and not let Brady play for any other team but the franchise would have suffered.

I completely disagree, including that the money to keep Brady here would have equaled opening the vault. You're right that a lot of this is speculation, but most franchises short a really broke or cheap one would do whatever they had to to keep a player who has been called the greatest in the sport's history.

I think projecting ahead often gets teams in trouble, particularly when they overvalue Young* players' potential and undervalue veterans who may have lost a step but retain effectiveness - and determination, built over long careers.

*yeah did that on purpose

 

[1960Pats]

It was only a bad move for those who are emotionally attached to Brady finishing his career here.
But im sure at the end of 2019 you were saying if we could just drop some talent off that team and degrade the roster a little more we will win a SB.

Yeah right, what has Brady done to warrant any such attachment eh? Btw, any chance the Pats had of winning a SB left with Brady.

The cap is crap unless it's how his rumpswabs justify dumping the GOAT QB over money so Bill could give the difference to Nelson Algholor.

Meanwhile, we're all supposed to rejoice in the mere possibility that Blunder Bill will get to finish his career here. I guess in your mind that's the best attachment.

 

[crawhammer]

You can disagree, but that's unfortunately what happened. He wanted a longer-term deal, and the issue became when the club added clauses/incentives and made him essentially fight for a contract where he was compensated accordingly, along with it being set up where it was essentially "year-to-year."

That, and the myriad of other issues relating to the day-to-day within the facility led to the comments regarding the lack of "feeling appreciated." Those words came directly from him.

The contract thing was absolutely an issue, and while it's disappointing, that essentially put a crack in the relationship. Don Yee's quote in 2018 was somewhat revealing, as he basically said that, yes, Brady does care about his contract, and it matters.

“His objective every year is to outperform his contract and his own goals,” said Yee when asked about his current deal by Schefter. “And like every player, yes, he thinks about his contract — it’s a pretty natural thing to do. Every team’s management knows this.”

It was clearly becoming a problem, and we found out after the fact that it was. Between that and the day-to-day things in the facility, that ended up being the final straw. That's why when he signed the final "extension" ahead of 2019, the final two years were voidable, which gave him the out. And yes, that's why he put his house up for sale ahead of that season.

So, if we split hairs, then yes, he wanted to leave heading into the 2019 season. But given everything that's come out since that entire fiasco - and I followed it pretty vividly - it wouldn't have reached that point. He would have stayed ahead of the 2018 season if they had given him a long-term deal that didn't involve him needing to essentially prove himself every season.

Curran has probably been the most plugged in there as he's close with Brady's family, and Edelman (he co-wrote Julian's book). The fact Brady was still treated like a new player was what frustrated him, with the contract being a frustrating point for him, and it ultimately led to the decision.

Again, it needed to happen the way that it did so the team sustained as little damage as possible $$-wise. But if we're arguing that Brady didn't want to stay, that's just not accurate. Ahead of 2019, that's true, but only because the damage was already done. However, it could have been prevented ahead of 2018 had they extended him with a deal that didn't involve the other things that went along with it.

Still, it ended up being a difficult strategy that ultimately allowed them to flip things faster after he left and it was the right approach, even if quite a few of us didn't like it at the time. It is what it is.

This is the best post I've ever read on this forum. It needs to be pinned to the top of page 1.

 

[1960Pats]

I also fall under the group of "they should have ridden that horse into the ground" and kept him, but the only way it would have worked would have been continuing to kick the can down the road with a long-term extension, which would have caught up with them eventually. So rather than get 1-2 more good years out of him (which ended up being the reality) and then end up with a solid year but then 1-2 years of cap issues, the year-to-year approach they went to made it where it only really hurt them cap-wise for one season.

That was clearly Belichick's call and it obviously sucks for how Brady was treated, no doubt, but these things historically don't typically end the way people always want them to with that caliber of player and the $$ involved. And no, the $$ wasn't that bad, but it's lower when it's pushed out longer, which was ultimately the issue. They way they did it allowed them to get him off the books faster.

At the end of the day, you're not talking about a 35-38-year-old player. You're talking about a guy who was at the very end in his 40s or whatever, and honestly, good for him for going to Tampa and getting a ring. People are mad about it due to the fact he didn't finish out his career here, but let's be honest, that one season ended up cementing his legacy as the best ever, and it also slammed the door on the nonsense with Rodgers, Manning, and even Mahomes (for now).

Meanwhile, the Patriots spent one season in cap jail instead of more than one, and they're essentially into a process that was coming eventually. Like @Steve102 said earlier, be happy the last 20 years happened, but also be happy Brady had the chance to really shut everybody up.

Once Brady was gone, someone like a Mac Jones was going to be here eventually, and anyone hoping for an elite QB to just fall into their laps and keep things rolling is just being unrealistic. It just almost never happens and he could have easily landed elsewhere and we might have missed out on it. But they can potentially contend with a decent QB and the type of defense they have now. They're just not going to dominate people the way they did. It's going to be ugly and difficult at times. So people just need to flip the page and try and enjoy the ride instead of pining for the past.

It's over. So rather than drive yourself nuts and get mad, try and watch the highlight video when they show it on opening night and be thankful this happened in a time where we were all front and center, rather than reading or having to watch archive footage. We were lucky, and I certainly enjoyed all of it.

How many years did it take Red Sox fans to stop talking about the Babe Ruth trade or Buckner's error? That's what you have to look forward to here. The term forgive and forget doesn't apply to sports.

Once again, I couldn't have cared less what the Pats could have done with him. He earned the right to finish his career no matter how the team did. And as old as he was he probably would have led the team to a better record and handled the coaching clown show much better.

I can't help but think of the irony that Bill Belichick gets to claim Brady's accomplishments as his so that the fans now want him to stay for as long as he wants, in spite of the horrible results of the last few years and the fact that Bill let Brady go without any backup plan in place.

I really don't get why we need to keep a hands off approach with Belichick.

 

[Ian]

I really don't get why we need to keep a hands off approach with Belichick.

Nobody says you have to. But I will say, it does make sense to at least have a wait and see approach. Of all the seasons where there's some pressure on him, this is certainly it. And obviously Mac Jones falls into that category as well. Big year for both guys.

 

[amfootball]

Nobody says you have to. But I will say, it does make sense to at least have a wait and see approach. Of all the seasons where there's some pressure on him, this is certainly it. And obviously Mac Jones falls into that category as well. Big year for both guys.

I agree. This is a big year for Bill after the disaster last year with the offensive coaches. I think he had to find out within the first month if Mac is too damaged to stay with us. Hopefully BOB smooths things out and Mac is rearing to go BUT if he's not and he still looks shaky in the pocket then he has to go with Zappe. Its critical IMO that we find out this year if Mac is going to be the guy or not and then make plans to find the guy if he isn't the one.

 

[All3Phases]

Good article from a former GM, talking about the cap and all the myths about it. Seems to align with OTC questioning exactly how the patriots were in “cap jail” in 2020. For @Ring 6

https://t.co/4DaOWtmbwR