Who subscribes to the Mike Felger theory that Branch >> Moss??

[Jackson 2]

Honestly, even responding to Felger's nonsense is enough to make one feel dirty. He's the worst type of fraud: a very bright guy who could be a voice of reason in the wilderness which is often New England sports coverage but who, instead, has chosen to be the blowhard contrarian buffoon. Playing the contrarian is not necessarily a bad role to adopt, provided one's viewpoints are based upon reason and logic. Felger's viewpoints are almost never in that category. Too bad.

 

[eagle eye]

The term "Lost a step" refers to a player slowing down. It has been used in other ways, but it's primary meaning refers to someone who's no longer as fast as they once were.

And there are a number of receivers that get better separation than Moss does. The question for me is how much of that's due to offensive scheme and defensive emphasis, and how much is because Moss has fallen back in the pack.

Fallen back in the pack?
What are you getting at Deus?
That Moss is not the receiver he once was?
He is the leading receiver in the NFL this season, the guy has been amazing over the last couple of weeks. Or are you specifically talking about his speed?

 

[Pats726]

One of Felger's former contentions used to be that Branch couldn't beat a double team. Ever. Of course he's been too damaged since to assess if that remains the case. Since their cost is a wash, I'd say Felger is an idiot. I wish Moss could still consistently battle for the ball, but age and nagging injury (back) has taken a toll. That said, he straps 'em on as needed and goes over the middle.

Felger is like Borges in many respects. He will abandon opposition for a time with an eye on revisiting it to say I told you so. As he did with Dillon. Although in both cases his contention was when the going got tough and there were losses involved each would return to form. That never happened. Dillon continued to play hard and was never a problem, he just wore out. Moss eventually will too but he remains a team player to date so...

Felger is the guy who wants you to avoid the bad guy until he wants you to sign him to prove money is no object. He's absolutely ADHD to boot. Bored when things are good, berserk when they are not.

Ignore him is the best resort. He's on his desperate mission for sweeps ratings so he will now persue whatever tack it takes to light up those phones.

All good points...but Borges just hates the Patriots while Felger stirs the pot up more with more idiotic things. I agree about the ADHD...always for ratings and getting listeners to call in. I can only take a minute of two of those jokers..if that. Desperate for ratings..absolutely!! SO be even MORE outrageous!!

 

[Satchboogie3]

The term "Lost a step" refers to a player slowing down. It has been used in other ways, but it's primary meaning refers to someone who's no longer as fast as they once were.

And there are a number of receivers that get better separation than Moss does. The question for me is how much of that's due to offensive scheme and defensive emphasis, and how much is because Moss has fallen back in the pack.

While Moss might no longer be the fastest WR in the game, I still think he has the most deceptive speed (and best "burst" speed) in the game. It's his complete package that makes him still the best in the NFL. Who is a better WR right now?

Larry Fitzgerald? He is not even close to as fast as Moss and his stats aren't as "unworldly" as Moss. 2008 was a great year for Fitzgerald, yet Moss still put up 1000 yards and only 1 less TD, with a backup QB playing his first career starts. So far this season, Moss has averaged almost 100 yards per game, is on pace for over 100 receptions, has a higher Y/R, and has just 1 less TD than Fitzgerald.

So who exactly is a better receiver right now?

 

[Deus Irae]

While Moss might no longer be the fastest WR in the game, I still think he has the most deceptive speed (and best "burst" speed) in the game. It's his complete package that makes him still the best in the NFL. Who is a better WR right now?

Larry Fitzgerald? He is not even close to as fast as Moss and his stats aren't as "unworldly" as Moss. 2008 was a great year for Fitzgerald, yet Moss still put up 1000 yards and only 1 less TD, with a backup QB playing his first career starts. So far this season, Moss has averaged almost 100 yards per game, is on pace for over 100 receptions, has a higher Y/R, and has just 1 less TD than Fitzgerald.

So who exactly is a better receiver right now?

1.) I didn't say anyone was a better receiver than Moss. I said he'd lost a step. I think he's admitted that he's not as fast as he used to be.

2.) I don't think Fitzgerald is the best, or 2nd best, WR in the game.

3.) I'd take Calvin Johnson over every other outside receiver in the game today, based upon a combination of factors.

4.) Receptions and yards are guidelines, but they don't prove who the best is. For the record, Wayne leads the league in receptions, has more touchdowns, has a higher first down percentage, and is averaging almost as many yards per game as Moss is, without a single pass reception of over 40 yards. Using only the raw data, Colts fans could argue that Wayne is the best receiver in the game.

 

[muzz]

Megatron?
What factors are those, that he can't stay on the field, or that he is 6'5"/230 lbs, and can catch?

He'll be the best TE soon!!

 

[IcyPatriot]

Some players ... not always the best players are $$$ players. I'll give a nod to Felger on this one ... Moss has no rings and he was shut down vs the Giants. Branch was the man and he still produced in spite of the pressure. He wasn't the best in the league but he was a $$$ player for sure. I still think if Moss showed up in the slot a few times that day we win ... but who wants to go there again.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Some players ... not always the best players are $$$ players. I'll give a nod to Felger on this one ... Moss has no rings and he was shut down vs the Giants. Branch was the man and he still produced in spite of the pressure. He wasn't the best in the league but he was a $$$ player for sure. I still think if Moss showed up in the slot a few times that day we win ... but who wants to go there again.

I can tell you never bothered to rewatch the SuperBowl. Moss got wide open many times, Brady just never had the time to get it to him, or he under/overthrew him. Don't forget that the "would be" game winning drive was in large part Moss (3 rec, 27 yards, TD on the drive). What lost us that game was the O-line, the defense not getting the stop, and a lack of a running game (45 yards on 16 attempts, just 2.8 y/c).

As For Calvin Johnson as the best WR in the game, I'd still pick Moss over him right now, but I do think Calvin (with a good QB) could be an all-time great.

 

[patsfan-1982]

i dont under stand how he would come up with someing like that

moss is a hall of fame WR that got most of he's number's with back up QB's

branch played with a hall of fame QB for most of he's Career and still never got a 1000 yerd season

mike felger is crazy

 

[IcyPatriot]

I can tell you never bothered to rewatch the SuperBowl. Moss got wide open many times, Brady just never had the time to get it to him, or he under/overthrew him. Don't forget that the "would be" game winning drive was in large part Moss (3 rec, 27 yards, TD on the drive). What lost us that game was the O-line, the defense not getting the stop, and a lack of a running game (45 yards on 16 attempts, just 2.8 y/c).

As For Calvin Johnson as the best WR in the game, I'd still pick Moss over him right now, but I do think Calvin (with a good QB) could be an all-time great.

Look I watched the game ... reason why in the game thread that day I kept saying they needed to put Moss in the slot. So what good is an air conditioner in Alaska? Moss is the better reciver ... history shows that. But there's no denying branch's ability to break off routes and win the big one.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Look I watched the game ... reason why in the game thread that day I kept saying they needed to put Moss in the slot. So what good is an air conditioner in Alaska? Moss is the better reciver ... history shows that. But there's no denying branch's ability to break off routes and win the big one.

Do you not understand football? They already had Welker in the slot, so what do you suggest? They go with 4 wide against a pass rush they can't stop? Are you going to move Welker outside, where he isn't anywhere near as good? That would be absolutely stupid. You are trying to spin it, but no one is buying it.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Moss is the better reciver ... history shows that. But there's no denying branch's ability to break off routes and win the big one.

There's no denying Branch's ability to "win the big one" doesn't come close to Moss's ability. Moss has had 67 100+ yard games in his career, Branch had 11. There is no doubt that Moss has a hugely greater impact in the game. It's not even debatable.

If you want to talk Playoffs, Here is how Branch stacks up with Moss (both through 11 career playoff games):
Moss: 42 Rec, 817 yards, 10 TD, 19.4 Y/R, 74.2 Y/G
Branch: 49 Rec, 725 yards, 2 TD, 14.8 Y/R, 65.9 Y/G

That is including the '07 playoffs were he was just a decoy (only 2 rec, 32 yards in the first 2 games).

So reality doesn't even support your argument. Moss (through the same amount of games) has been MORE productive in the playoffs than Banch. The point of offense is scoring and Moss has scored 5 times more than Branch.

Stop trying to argue something that has NO basis.

 

[IcyPatriot]

There's no denying Branch's ability to "win the big one" doesn't come close to Moss's ability. Moss has had 67 100+ yard games in his career, Branch had 11. There is no doubt that Moss has a hugely greater impact in the game. It's not even debatable.

If you want to talk Playoffs, Here is how Branch stacks up with Moss (both through 11 career playoff games):
Moss: 42 Rec, 817 yards, 10 TD, 19.4 Y/R, 74.2 Y/G
Branch: 49 Rec, 725 yards, 2 TD, 14.8 Y/R, 65.9 Y/G

That is including the '07 playoffs were he was just a decoy (only 2 rec, 32 yards in the first 2 games).

So reality doesn't even support your argument. Moss (through the same amount of games) has been MORE productive in the playoffs than Banch. The point of offense is scoring and Moss has scored 5 times more than Branch.

Stop trying to argue something that has NO basis.

Yeah a Super Bowl MVP vs a guy with great stats and no rings ... yup no basis.

So who is more deserving of the Patriots HOF ... you guys are just bitter over how Branch left.

Moss was a non factor when he had a chance ... actually Moss was a non factor down the stretch that year. I love Moss was Branch was the better Patriot ... he produced rings.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah a Super Bowl MVP vs a guy with great stats and no rings ... yup no basis.

So who is more deserving of the Patriots HOF ... you guys are just bitter over how Branch left.

Moss was a non factor when he had a chance ... actually Moss was a non factor down the stretch that year. I love Moss was Branch was the better Patriot ... he produced rings.

This is a post I bet you wish you could have back.


Sheesh

 

[IcyPatriot]

This is a post I bet you wish you could have back.


Sheesh

Why?

Branch has been the better Patriot ... what's wrong with saying that?

It's not about stats ... all that matters is the rings ... that's how Belichick coaches the team isn't it?

 

[letekro]

Why?

Branch has been the better Patriot ... what's wrong with saying that?

It's not about stats ... all that matters is the rings ... that's how Belichick coaches the team isn't it?

Wow, that's a great point. So I guess Bethel Johnson is a "better Patriot" than Randy Moss too, right? Lay off the drugs, son.

 

[ausbacker]

Some of the rhetoric in this thread is laughable and mind boggling at best.

 

[Jangles]

Deion had some big games for us, but he was even more fragile and less physical than Moss, not to mention not even close to the 2nd best receiver ever, which is what Moss is.

You deserve a slap to the face

He's #1 for sure

 

[Lansdowne]

I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for The Branchise for being a reliable target for Brady for four productive seasons. But Moss (and Welker, for that matter) totally obliterate him in the pecking order as impact receivers.

 

[Satchboogie3]

Yeah a Super Bowl MVP vs a guy with great stats and no rings ... yup no basis.

So who is more deserving of the Patriots HOF ... you guys are just bitter over how Branch left.

Moss was a non factor when he had a chance ... actually Moss was a non factor down the stretch that year. I love Moss was Branch was the better Patriot ... he produced rings.

You do realize that Moss NEVER has been a "non-factor", right? The reason he only had 2 receptions in the first 2 games of the '07 playoffs were because his coverage dictated it. After seeing what he had done in the regular season (you know, the one where he broke records that Branch can't even fathom, let alone ever challenge), JAX and SD decided that they weren't going to let Moss beat them, so they double and triple teamed him all game. That is why the short/middle was open all game and the running game was effective.

Anyways, the stats speak for themselves. Moss has been far more productive in the playoffs, it's not debatable.

To counter your argument about "rings are all that matter", a WR can have a HUGE game and still not win. Take Sunday for example, Moss had 2 TDs and 179 yards and we lost the game. How about the 2005 Playoffs where Branch had a great game vs Denver (153 yard), but we lost. Winning IS A TEAM EFFORT. You can't judge a player (other than maybe QB) based on how many rings they have. It's ridiculous.

Just because I think it's telling, here are Moss's vs Branch's stats in their careers in NE:
Moss: 2+ seasons (41 games), 225 Rec, 3392 Yds, 82.7 Y/G, 15.1 Y/R, 41 TDs
Branch: 4 seasons (53 games), 213 Rec, 2744 Yds, 51.8 Y/G, 12.9 Y/R, 14 TDs.

Moss has been LEGENDARY, while Branch's play wasn't even average. In all his years in NE, the ONLY time he was in the top 30 in receiving (yds, rec, or TDs) was in 2005, when he was 16th in Rec and 21 in yards. The guy was AVERAGE.