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Who subscribes to the Mike Felger theory that Branch >> Moss??


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Moss has lost a step? Record breaking '07 season, SOLID 1,000 YD, 11 TD season with the BACKUP QB playing, and this year he is ONLY leading the league in receiving yards. He is on pace for 103 Receptions, 1584 Yds, and 12 TDs. That would be just his 3rd season with 100 receptions and 2nd highest receiving yards. Plus, he has done this with a nagging back injury and a rusty QB through the first 4 or 5 games. Brady missed Moss on more than just a few deep passes that would have gone for big gains/TDs.

So where exactly has Moss "lost a step"?


Go take a look at the separation he routinely got while in Minnesota. Moss is still great, but his speed/burst isn't quite what it once was.
 
Moss has lost a step? Record breaking '07 season, SOLID 1,000 YD, 11 TD season with the BACKUP QB playing, and this year he is ONLY leading the league in receiving yards. He is on pace for 103 Receptions, 1584 Yds, and 12 TDs. That would be just his 3rd season with 100 receptions and 2nd highest receiving yards. Plus, he has done this with a nagging back injury and a rusty QB through the first 4 or 5 games. Brady missed Moss on more than just a few deep passes that would have gone for big gains/TDs.

So where exactly has Moss "lost a step"?

Completely agree with this dude. Maybe he isn't as fast as he was when he was in his early 20's, but "lost a step" implies someone can stop him on a regular basis. So far, it has taken a group to try to LIMIT him.

Welker's cool, but he is better because of Moss. Yes, Moss also benefits from teaming with Welker, but I think Moss is the one who sets the stage.

He is still all-world. It's just that there may have been a time (07) when he was all-universe.
 
Its funny when before Brady went down in 08 everyone said best tandem was Brady/Moss. Brady was best QB ( Manning not even in same sentence) Moss best WR. Once Brady went down, Media & haters couldn't wait to say it was Warner/Fitzgerald & Fitzgerald Was best WR in league. Moss held his own in 08 especially with an unknown Cassells. NOW Brady is back & Moss hasn't missed a beat. Does anyone hear anything about Fitzgerald anymore? I'll Take Brady/Moss everytime and just for S__Ts & giggles Welker too.
 
Deus is right on.

But it is amazing how sometimes Moss (with his long stride) looks like he's just taking a jog. The man is a freak.
 
Go take a look at the separation he routinely got while in Minnesota. Moss is still great, but his speed/burst isn't quite what it once was.

Yes, of course he isn't quite that fast anymore, he hasn't "lost a step" by the definition. He is STILL faster than anyone on the field. He still gets great separation. Outside of the Ten game, Brady simply hasn't thrown him a perfect deep ball, Moss has had to slow down every single time, so it makes it look as if he doesn't have great separation.
 
Yes, of course he isn't quite that fast anymore, he hasn't "lost a step" by the definition...

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Felger seems to ignore the effect Moss has on the opposing D and who he opens it up for Welker and the other receivers, better to figure out if Branch is as good as Welker. I say no, however I did like Branch as a WR
 
Go take a look at the separation he routinely got while in Minnesota. Moss is still great, but his speed/burst isn't quite what it once was.

Yup- it used to be an A+++, now it's an A-. Still very good, but in his early years it was a legitimately a joke. That said, he peaked as an all-around WR in 2007.
 
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I think they are a lot closer to each other in terms of value to the Patriots than most people would think.

Branch wanted big-time dollars here and wasnt going to get it. Moss wanted big-time dollars and got it AND in BBs estimation, was worth it.

There are players whose value to the team is far greater than their value as an individual player, Branch was one of those.

Yes, but not to the Pats. Thus he was shipped for a #1 pick to SEA.

You must have more information to back up and absolutely baseless assertion.
 
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Wouldn't comparing Branch and Welker be more interesting?
 

The term "lost a step" generally refers to a player losing skills to the point that they aren't effective, or are significantly less effective. That isn't the case with Moss. I mean, if "losing" a step is the difference between getting 5 yards of separation vs 3-4 yards, I don't think it's all that meaningful. The point is that Moss can still get better separation than ANYONE in the game.

I honestly don't think there is much of a difference between 2007 Moss and 2009 Moss (other than the back injury). In 2007 Brady almost never missed Moss deep, in 2009 it's quite the opposite. If Brady played the first 5 weeks like it was 2007, there is no doubt Moss would have far more yardage and TDs.

As far as the RedZone is concerned, Brady hadn't made the best decisions this season. Randy had gotten open multiple times but Brady either didn't see it, over/under threw him, or missed the window/timing.
 
If I took some mind bending drugs I might be able to agree with Felger. Actually I don't even think that would work. Maybe if I got my brain removed..........
 
I've been listening to Felger/Massoriti at work and Felger is hellbent on pushing this theory that Deion Branch was a tougher receiver to shutdown than Randy Moss, and that Moss can't perform in big games and against physical receivers. He is also suggesting that the offense was better with Deion Branch as the #1 WR, stats be dammed. His rationale is that all you need to shutdown Moss is jam him at the line, and that the whole "safety help" argument is irrelevant because all good receivers, including Branch, always face safety help and still produce.

There are many holes in his reasoning, beginning with the simple fact that Randy Moss wouldn't have 142 career TDs, second all time, if he was easy to shutdown. Furthermore, since coming to NE, he is statistically several times more productive than Branch was on his best years, so if being shutdown is equated to performance, Branch was an easier guy to shutdown. Lastly, the offense as a whole has been arguably the best offense in football with Brady and Moss, and to suggest they had a better offense in 2004 simply because they won the SB is akin to Yankee fans who, up until this year, thought the offense and team were better with Scott Brosius.

Now, when I heard his reasoning I found it irrational and almost an unwillingness on his part to embrace Moss, he hated the trade from the beginning and was predicting Moss would pull a TO. But the reason why I'm starting this thread is because he has actually been getting support by callers and hasn't been challenged on any of his assumptions ragarding Branch/Moss, so it made me wonder what percentage of the Pats fan base actually suscribes to this theory. This is a typical zero sum game argument when determining championship teams, i.e. 2004 offense was better because they won the SB, even though the difference in those championship runs was ALWAYS the defense's ability to get key stops, something that hasn't been the case since 2005.

If that is the case why did BB say Moss was the best WR he ever coached? sounds like a lot of BS sports writing again.
 
The term "lost a step" generally refers to a player losing skills to the point that they aren't effective, or are significantly less effective. That isn't the case with Moss. I mean, if "losing" a step is the difference between getting 5 yards of separation vs 3-4 yards, I don't think it's all that meaningful. The point is that Moss can still get better separation than ANYONE in the game.

I honestly don't think there is much of a difference between 2007 Moss and 2009 Moss (other than the back injury). In 2007 Brady almost never missed Moss deep, in 2009 it's quite the opposite. If Brady played the first 5 weeks like it was 2007, there is no doubt Moss would have far more yardage and TDs.

As far as the RedZone is concerned, Brady hadn't made the best decisions this season. Randy had gotten open multiple times but Brady either didn't see it, over/under threw him, or missed the window/timing.

Good clarification, Satch. As a example to back up your statement, in 2002 Jerry Rice had 92 catches, 1200 or so yards and 7 TD- at 40!!!!!! No question he not running sub 4.4s at that age, but from a production-standpoint he was still in the top 10 in the league.
 
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The term "lost a step" generally refers to a player losing skills to the point that they aren't effective, or are significantly less effective. That isn't the case with Moss. I mean, if "losing" a step is the difference between getting 5 yards of separation vs 3-4 yards, I don't think it's all that meaningful. The point is that Moss can still get better separation than ANYONE in the game.

I honestly don't think there is much of a difference between 2007 Moss and 2009 Moss (other than the back injury). In 2007 Brady almost never missed Moss deep, in 2009 it's quite the opposite. If Brady played the first 5 weeks like it was 2007, there is no doubt Moss would have far more yardage and TDs.

As far as the RedZone is concerned, Brady hadn't made the best decisions this season. Randy had gotten open multiple times but Brady either didn't see it, over/under threw him, or missed the window/timing.

Good point. Moss can lose 2 or 3 more steps and he'll still be a top-tier WR.
 
The term "lost a step" generally refers to a player losing skills to the point that they aren't effective, or are significantly less effective. That isn't the case with Moss. I mean, if "losing" a step is the difference between getting 5 yards of separation vs 3-4 yards, I don't think it's all that meaningful. The point is that Moss can still get better separation than ANYONE in the game.

I honestly don't think there is much of a difference between 2007 Moss and 2009 Moss (other than the back injury). In 2007 Brady almost never missed Moss deep, in 2009 it's quite the opposite. If Brady played the first 5 weeks like it was 2007, there is no doubt Moss would have far more yardage and TDs.

As far as the RedZone is concerned, Brady hadn't made the best decisions this season. Randy had gotten open multiple times but Brady either didn't see it, over/under threw him, or missed the window/timing.

The term "Lost a step" refers to a player slowing down. It has been used in other ways, but it's primary meaning refers to someone who's no longer as fast as they once were.

And there are a number of receivers that get better separation than Moss does. The question for me is how much of that's due to offensive scheme and defensive emphasis, and how much is because Moss has fallen back in the pack.
 
Go take a look at the separation he routinely got while in Minnesota. Moss is still great, but his speed/burst isn't quite what it once was.
I agree with you Deus. Between 2007 to this season, Moss has either lost some speed or his back is more troublesome then we know and he's playing through the pain with jabs. I've been baffled at the lack of vertical passing to him in the red zone. I mean.. it's not like Moss' height coupled with vertical leaping ability isn't a strength of his at all.
 
I agree with you Deus. Between 2007 to this season, Moss has either lost some speed or his back is more troublesome then we know and he's playing through the pain with jabs. I've been baffled at the lack of vertical passing to him in the red zone. I mean.. it's not like Moss' height coupled with vertical leaping ability isn't a strength of his at all.

Gotta assume it's limiting him somewhat and all my admiration to #81 to not only playing through it, but still being damn productive in the process.
 
Dude she did that August 7th.....that means she has been dead since August 7th..3 fua.djkb/cjbing months ago.....did you shout out that she died on August 7th, or is this something new?

She has ZERO to do with the pats, or football at all for that matter, it sounds like her son didn't even want to deal with her.......

In fairness to an overzelous DaBronx to break the story, her death was officially ruled a suicide today. I had forgotten that she had passed on 8/7/09.....
 
In fairness to an overzelous DaBronx to break the story, her death was officially ruled a suicide today. I had forgotten that she had passed on 8/7/09.....
9 posts in 5 threads? It has no bearing or relevance to any of the topics at hand. Now, if it were in a New Orleans Saints thread discussion....
 
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