What I don't get about the hate for Moss?

[TriplecHamp]

98 Cardinals 4-73-1
98 Falcons 6-75-1
99 Cowboys 5-127-1
99 @ Rams 9-188-2
00 Saints 2-121-2
00 @ Giants 2-18-0
04 @ Packers 4-70-2
04 @ Eagles 3-51-0
07 Jaguars 1-14-0
07 Chargers 1-18-0
07 Giants 5-62-1
09 Ravens 5-48-0

Not a terrible playoff average. Obviously he has cooled off recently, but to say he doesn't come up big in big games is laughable. Remember the TD against the Jets with no time left? I believe it was the only time he caught a pass that game (Cassel missed him wide open deep earlier) but he still came up big. Sending the game into OT. Remember the go ahead TD in the Superbowl? Of course you do!

I remember Moss catching everything thrown at him this year, but it wasn't even close to enough. I remember him catching every pass thrown to him in a losing effort against the Rams in 99'. I remember him getting five yards behind the Atlanta defender in OT only to be way underthrown by Cunningham.

The reason you guys didn't win this year? Not a good enough team. The reason in 07'? Some freakin miracle by a no name WR and some missed holding calls. Not Moss.

Wait, your not a Pats fan?

 

[bostonia3333]

without moss, we are a 5-11 team this year. The Moss hate must stop!

Do you wanna see Edelman as your no. 1 WR when most of the time he's gonna be running on that bike?

 

[emoney_33]

The $11M decoy. How much did he produce against the Ravens and Jets?

This isn't even taking into consideration his attitute problems, which, let's not kid ourselves, were very much still there this year. Brady and Belichick had to keep him happy, and he still always wasn't. He's not a leader and he's not hungry.

OH no, not you too pats1! How many normally rational posters are going to fall for the damn media's tricks. Let's not kid ourselves, you know only what the media wants you to know.

The Ravens sure as hell doubled him all the way to a 24-0 lead and then started playing really far off of him, daring the patriots to go with short passes to waste the clock.

Someone who is "not a leader" doesn't get voted as captain by his peers two years in a row, and I'll guarantee a 3rd year in a row. Someone who is "not hungry" doesn't go out there every single week hurt, do things that he hasn't throughout his career (going over the middle etc...) trying to help the team win. Someone who is a decoy does not get 1200+ yards and 13 TD.

How much of a slap in the face is it when you say "Brady and Belichick had to keep him happy". There's is not a single thing throughout either one's history to suggest they would ever baby or cater to anyone's ego. But all of a sudden we have Moss and most of you believe the media's microscope so you twist things to fit the preconceived notions you have.

Oh and GREAT OP NEfan32, at least there are some of us out there.

Speaking about this nonsense, there was a point in time during the game where they went to a shot of both Brady and Moss on the sideline sitting separately with blank stares. I thought to myself that's a perfect example of how things are manipulated through the media, the cameras show only what they want to show and only tiny microscopic moments that lack context. Meh it's a shame though that so many Patriots fans just can't see and appreciate what they have.

 

[Patspsycho]

It's not fair to single out the Jet's games. As much as I hate to say it, D. Revis is one of the best corners in the game. Just to show you how good he is, here are the performances of WRs who lined up against him:
Andre Johnson: 4 rec, 35 yards, 0 TD
Randy Moss: 4 Rec, 24 yards, 0 TD
Justin Gage: 4 Rec, 37 yards, 0 TD
M. Colston: 2 Rec, 33 yards, 0 TD
T Ginn: 2 Rec, 57 yards, 1 TD
T. Owens: 3 Rec, 13 yards, 0 TD
R. Moss: 5 Rec, 34 yards, 1 TD
S. Smith: 1 Rec, 5 yards, 0 TD (2 INT)
T. Owens: 3 Rec, 31 yards, 0 TD
A. Bryant: 2 Rec, 22 yards, 0 TD
R. White: 4 Rec, 33 yards, 0 TD
R. Wayne: 3 Rec, 33 yards, 0 TD
C. Johnson (ohco): 0 rec
C. Jonson (playoffs): 2 rec, 28 yards, 0 TD

Expecting Moss to have a big game against Revis isn't exactly fair.

Exactly.. Revis is a true shut-down corner. Despite that, the "aging" Moss is one of only two to get a TD on him.

 

[Patspsycho]

He didn't demand double coverage against the Ravens.

Yes he did. He had Suggs in his face, then Foxworthy picking him up with Reed over the top.

 

[emoney_33]

Nobody hates Moss, did people hate Seymour? No, how about Cassel? Branch? No, some people just believe that it could be a better decision in the long term to deal Moss before his contract is up because he is aging and there are plenty of younger wide receiver targets in this draft and in free agency. I dont really care either way, IBBWT but I would hope that we can get a receiver through Free agency and a couple in the draft along with Moss, Edleman and maybe even Welker late next season.

This is false, only very FEW are arguing the 2 good receivers or young talent for Moss' $10M angle. The rest of them are just dogging on Moss and claiming that somehow Brady is worse because he has a HOF WR to throw to.

There's not a single reason to deal Moss before his contract is up, the $6M you save cannot possibly come close to replacing what he brings.

 

[Patspsycho]

The $11M decoy. How much did he produce against the Ravens and Jets?

This isn't even taking into consideration his attitute problems, which, let's not kid ourselves, were very much still there this year. Brady and Belichick had to keep him happy, and he still always wasn't. He's not a leader and he's not hungry.

He's not a leader, never was, but neither is he a locker room cancer. If he didn't have a history of attitude problems, we would have never gotten him for a 4th round pick.

He is what he is, good and bad. He is not going to carry this team on his shoulder. He is no longer a superstar WR, period. The one thing I will concede to you is the amount of money they are paying him.

However he does dictate attention on defense and keeps the field stretched over the top, with Welker keeping the slot true. I think you can recognize that without Welker in there, Reed was free to roam.

Essentially, getting rid of him will do nothing; it won't solve the problems we have. We tried to get a deep threat to balance the field for him, but obviously BB's penny-pinching didn't work. Let's see what he resorts to this time. I think Moss works best when there is a legitimate deep threat on the other side to force both safeties to commit.

The one thing we really need is a REAL running game- that is the best way to protect Brady, if we can have the defense more worried about gap protection than rushing Brady.

 

[emoney_33]

He's not a leader, never was, but neither is he a locker room cancer. If he didn't have a history of attitude problems, we would have never gotten him for a 4th round pick.

He is what he is, good and bad. He is not going to carry this team on his shoulder. He is no longer a superstar WR, period. The one thing I will concede to you is the amount of money they are paying him.

However he does dictate attention on defense and keeps the field stretched over the top, with Welker keeping the slot true. I think you can recognize that without Welker in there, Reed was free to roam.

Essentially, getting rid of him will do nothing; it won't solve the problems we have. We tried to get a deep threat to balance the field for him, but obviously BB's penny-pinching didn't work. Let's see what he resorts to this time. I think Moss works best when there is a legitimate deep threat on the other side to force both safeties to commit.

The one thing we really need is a REAL running game- that is the best way to protect Brady, if we can have the defense more worried about gap protection than rushing Brady.

What is a receiver who puts up the 5th most yards and 1st most TDs in a season (while being doubled on virtually every play) if not a superstar?

There's also not a single receiver in the game that isn't going to be hurt by not having a legitimate deep threat on the opposite side of the field.

 

[iapatsfan]

This is false, only very FEW are arguing the 2 good receivers or young talent for Moss' $10M angle. The rest of them are just dogging on Moss and claiming that somehow Brady is worse because he has a HOF WR to throw to.

There's not a single reason to deal Moss before his contract is up, the $6M you save cannot possibly come close to replacing what he brings.

My point in other posts has consistently been that we could use his $ to rebuild our WR core while drafting a developmental player at the position as well. Since Brady has been here, the O has always operated best when he has multiple legitimate options to throw to. He did not have that this year, and with the $$ we're paying Moss, he won't have it next year either. Moss has been tremendous for us, but I believe he's reaching a point in his career where his price may finally exceed his value. Does anyone really believe he is going to be a better player next year, another year into his 30's? In order for us to have a slight shot at contending next year we need a much deeper WR core and a greatly improved pass rush. If we can start that process by freeing up money by parting with Thomas and Moss, I say do it. I'd rather have some savings this year than have their contracts run out and have nothing to show for it.

 

[Patspsycho]

What is a receiver who puts up the 5th most yards and 1st most TDs in a season (while being doubled on virtually every play) if not a superstar?

There's also not a single receiver in the game that isn't going to be hurt by not having a legitimate deep threat on the opposite side of the field.

If you are talking about the 2007 season, that was the year we surprised everyone with the spread offense. I really think it has to be categorized as an abberation. Nobody, not even you or me could ever have dreamed that such a season would have happened, and that Brady and Moss would connect on such an interstellar level. The good thing was that no other team ever thought to expect it either. There were times that Brady could have grown a beard in the pocket.

Moss is older now and slower now, and it doesn't help that everyone is beating him up as they know that is the best way to throw him off his game.

 

[Satchboogie3]

My point in other posts has consistently been that we could use his $ to rebuild our WR core while drafting a developmental player at the position as well. Since Brady has been here, the O has always operated best when he has multiple legitimate options to throw to. He did not have that this year, and with the $$ we're paying Moss, he won't have it next year either. Moss has been tremendous for us, but I believe he's reaching a point in his career where his price may finally exceed his value. Does anyone really believe he is going to be a better player next year, another year into his 30's? In order for us to have a slight shot at contending next year we need a much deeper WR core and a greatly improved pass rush. If we can start that process by freeing up money by parting with Thomas and Moss, I say do it. I'd rather have some savings this year than have their contracts run out and have nothing to show for it.

For next season all we need is 1-2 legit WRs. Draft a couple and pick up a good FA or 2. If we can have a set of 1. Moss, 2. FA addition, 3. FA addition/Edelman/rookie to start the year we should be fine.

Getting rid of Moss just adds another hole you have to fill. Moss essentially will cost $6 million next season. Does anyone here really think we can get another legit #1 receiver for less than that, or even just 2 legit #2 receivers for that?

Our best shot is to keep Moss for at least 2010 while adding several quality receivers via the draft and free agency. Hopefully by the time Moss is ready to retire/move on we will have a groomed draftee ready to take over the #1 WR spot.

 

[Satchboogie3]

If you are talking about the 2007 season, that was the year we surprised everyone with the spread offense. I really think it has to be categorized as an abberation. Nobody, not even you or me could ever have dreamed that such a season would have happened, and that Brady and Moss would connect on such an interstellar level. The good thing was that no other team ever thought to expect it either. There were times that Brady could have grown a beard in the pocket.

Moss is older now and slower now, and it doesn't help that everyone is beating him up as they know that is the best way to throw him off his game.

Yeah, but Moss STILL was 5th in yards and 1st in TDs THIS year.
3 consecutive seasons of 1,000+ yards and 10+ TDs is an elite level of production, and he did that with a back up QB throwing to him for an entire season.

The fact is he was still the best receiver in the game this past season.

 

[iapatsfan]

For next season all we need is 1-2 legit WRs. Draft a couple and pick up a good FA or 2. If we can have a set of 1. Moss, 2. FA addition, 3. FA addition/Edelman/rookie to start the year we should be fine.

Getting rid of Moss just adds another hole you have to fill. Moss essentially will cost $6 million next season. Does anyone here really think we can get another legit #1 receiver for less than that, or even just 2 legit #2 receivers for that?

Our best shot is to keep Moss for at least 2010 while adding several quality receivers via the draft and free agency. Hopefully by the time Moss is ready to retire/move on we will have a groomed draftee ready to take over the #1 WR spot.

I'm sorry but I don't see, with Moss's contract, how we add any type of quality at WR. I do think we can get some quality WR's by letting him walk however. If we can get a couple of younger players, we can spread their money out and fit them under the cap next season. With Moss's current deal our only options are veteran Joey Galloway type signings. I don't know about you, but I don't want to go through that again.

 

[Patspsycho]

Yeah, but Moss STILL was 5th in yards and 1st in TDs THIS year.
3 consecutive seasons of 1,000+ yards and 10+ TDs is an elite level of production, and he did that with a back up QB throwing to him for an entire season.

The fact is he was still the best receiver in the game this past season.

I don't disagree with that.. in fact, if you read my original argument against pats1, I was disagreeing with him over getting rid of Moss.

But I am arguing that he is no longer the type of WR that can function despite double coverage. That part of his game, unfortunately, is no longer there.

Overall, I still believe he can be an integral part of the game, but it is redundant to continue to expect too much out of him now.

 

[ausbacker]

How in the world can you blame Randy Moss for what Tom Brady does? How can you blame Randy Moss for that the offensive line does? How can you blame Randy Moss for the defensive scheming employed against him?

Randy Moss has been the consummate performer for the Patriots in his time here. He's not created any locker room problems and more often than not performed on game day. He caught the go ahead touchdown in SB42 before the defense did a Barry Crocker.

I suspect his back injury is worse than we all know, as Moss' greatest attribute is his vertical receiving ability. That's been non-existent this season.

What the Patriots need are that viable 3rd receiver option and a decent enough fourth option. The receivers were shagged once Galloway didn't work out and Aiken was promoted to 3rd receiver.

Get the rocks out of your heads and realise there's not much else Randy Moss could have done for the Patriots in his time here.

 

[iapatsfan]

Yeah, but Moss STILL was 5th in yards and 1st in TDs THIS year.
3 consecutive seasons of 1,000+ yards and 10+ TDs is an elite level of production, and he did that with a back up QB throwing to him for an entire season.

The fact is he was still the best receiver in the game this past season.

I do not agree that Moss was the best WR in the game this past season, and neither do his peers as he was not voted to the Pro Bowl this year (until Welker got hurt).

 

[Jangles]

If i were Moss I would moon the haters.

Fantastic idea

 

[the assman]

I'm not a moss hater, but... it's a fact that in his biggest games in a Pats uniform he has disappeared. I know he had a TD in the SB but he was MIA for most of that game. 1 impact play in 4 PO games doesn't cut it for a #1 WR.

I actually like Moss but not as a focal point of the offense. Belichick really screwed up the WR position. Aiken? Slater? Stanback? That's pretty pathetic.

 

[emoney_33]

If you are talking about the 2007 season, that was the year we surprised everyone with the spread offense. I really think it has to be categorized as an abberation. Nobody, not even you or me could ever have dreamed that such a season would have happened, and that Brady and Moss would connect on such an interstellar level. The good thing was that no other team ever thought to expect it either. There were times that Brady could have grown a beard in the pocket.

Moss is older now and slower now, and it doesn't help that everyone is beating him up as they know that is the best way to throw him off his game.

No actually I'm talking about this year, 2009. #5 in yards, #1 in TD.

 

[emoney_33]

I don't disagree with that.. in fact, if you read my original argument against pats1, I was disagreeing with him over getting rid of Moss.

But I am arguing that he is no longer the type of WR that can function despite double coverage. That part of his game, unfortunately, is no longer there.

Overall, I still believe he can be an integral part of the game, but it is redundant to continue to expect too much out of him now.

I'm completely confused. How are you arguing that he "is no longer" the type of WR that JUST put up those numbers in 2009? And he sure was doing it against double coverage.