What I don't get about the hate for Moss?

[BradyFTW!]

The $11M decoy?

someone please explain to me how a guy who finishes first in TDs and 5th in yardage is a "decoy". Yes, Moss got shut down by Revis, but so did every other WR1 that went against the Jets. Either they all suck or Revis is really just that good.

 

[Satchboogie3]

I don't disagree with that.. in fact, if you read my original argument against pats1, I was disagreeing with him over getting rid of Moss.

But I am arguing that he is no longer the type of WR that can function despite double coverage. That part of his game, unfortunately, is no longer there.

Overall, I still believe he can be an integral part of the game, but it is redundant to continue to expect too much out of him now.

While I agree that you can't expect him to be as good as he was in '07 or his Minnesota years, he still does beat double coverage.

There have been countless plays this past season where he beat double/triple coverage. Sometimes Brady made a good throw and Moss caught it, sometimes Brady didn't make a good throw and it was out of reach. There were many plays where Brady didn't throw to him because either he didn't notice or didn't have the time.

He can beat double coverage, the problem is the O-line giving Brady the time, Brady making the read and making a good pass.

 

[RayClay]

He didn't demand double coverage against the Ravens.

Coverage doesn't matter when routes are slow developing (Phil Simms observation) and your quarterback has no time (Chicago Bears, NY Giants, Baltimore Ravens).

I'd love to see Moss in a balanced offense where the qb gets rid of the ball quickly, hands off, or runs play action 90% of the time and passes long to open receivers 10%.

 

[RayClay]

The $11M decoy. How much did he produce against the Ravens and Jets?

This isn't even taking into consideration his attitute problems, which, let's not kid ourselves, were very much still there this year. Brady and Belichick had to keep him happy, and he still always wasn't. He's not a leader and he's not hungry.

A guy that draws triple coverage regularly is invaluable. It's an awful offense that doesn't take advantage of that and make the defense pay.

I'm certain we had triple coverage on Moss and double coverage on Welker at times and either still threw to them, or settled for stupid 10 yard sideline outs to Watson with no YAC. That is just handing the defense their game plan. Insane.

 

[dhamz]

Can people stop quoting 11m as the cost for Moss? That would be his cap number next year when there is probably a 99.99% chance will be no cap.

From what I've read his salary for next year is 6.4m. Is he the player he was? Nope. Is he still really good? Yes. Can you add anything close to him at WR for 6.4m? No way.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

A guy that draws triple coverage regularly is invaluable. It's an awful offense that doesn't take advantage of that and make the defense pay.

I'm certain we had triple coverage on Moss and double coverage on Welker at times and either still threw to them, or settled for stupid 10 yard sideline outs to Watson with no YAC. That is just handing the defense their game plan. Insane.

Triple coverage on Moss?? Why??
He didn't require 3 guys to watch his jog through his routes.
Hope all of you saw the Cardinals/Packers game. If you did then saw what top shelf hard working professional WR's look like.
Moss' effort or should I say lack of effort is embarrassing and you guys defend him. Bizarre!
The bigger the game the smaller Moss plays.
The sooner the Patriots rid themselves of losers like Randy Moss, Adalius Thomas, Shawn Springs etc the quicker they will return to the top of the league.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

The $11M decoy. How much did he produce against the Ravens and Jets?

This isn't even taking into consideration his attitute problems, which, let's not kid ourselves, were very much still there this year. Brady and Belichick had to keep him happy, and he still always wasn't. He's not a leader and he's not hungry.

The Ravens game was a total disappointment on multiple levels, but you can't put it on Moss alone. If the line isn't protecting and Tom doesn't have time to throw, then Moss isn't going to be involved much, especially with our gameplan. Moss is a deep threat, but that's all O'Brien seem to use him as. In the second half, he started getting some intermediate catches as O'Brien figured out he doesn't have to throw bombs all the time.

Against Revis and the Jets, Moss drew triple teams at times, leaving Welker wide open for a big gain one time. Unfortunately we don't have a lot of WR depth to take advantage of these situations consistently. I also have to hand it to Revis, who is a great player. He also shut down Andre Johnson, Ochocinco, Steve Smith, and Marques Colston to name a few others this season. They are not all overpriced decoys. Having said all that, he was definitely open at times and the offense didn't take advantage of that.

The attitude problems, I just don't get where this comes from. The guy loves to play the game. He played with back problems because the team needed him to. Even when the offense hasn't looked his way, he hasn't blown up on the sidelines a la T.O. or punched out a teammate like Smith did. His teammates love him, the young guys all say he goes out of their way to help them (Nunn and Stanbeck both mentioned it). I think the media guys love to pick on him though, and it seems to be infecting the way others perceive him, which is unfortunate.

 

[pats1]

The Ravens game was a total disappointment on multiple levels, but you can't put it on Moss alone. If the line isn't protecting and Tom doesn't have time to throw, then Moss isn't going to be involved much, especially with our gameplan. Moss is a deep threat, but that's all O'Brien seem to use him as. In the second half, he started getting some intermediate catches as O'Brien figured out he doesn't have to throw bombs all the time.

Against Revis and the Jets, Moss drew triple teams at times, leaving Welker wide open for a big gain one time. Unfortunately we don't have a lot of WR depth to take advantage of these situations consistently. I also have to hand it to Revis, who is a great player. He also shut down Andre Johnson, Ochocinco, Steve Smith, and Marques Colston to name a few others this season. They are not all overpriced decoys. Having said all that, he was definitely open at times and the offense didn't take advantage of that.

The attitude problems, I just don't get where this comes from. The guy loves to play the game. He played with back problems because the team needed him to. Even when the offense hasn't looked his way, he hasn't blown up on the sidelines a la T.O. or punched out a teammate like Smith did. His teammates love him, the young guys all say he goes out of their way to help them (Nunn and Stanbeck both mentioned it). I think the media guys love to pick on him though, and it seems to be infecting the way others perceive him, which is unfortunate.

Is Moss a legitimate deep threat anymore? This isn't October 2007. This is going to be November 2010. There's a big difference.

He may not have blown up publicly, but everything I've heard points to him having a very delicate personality that has needed constant attention from Brady and Belichick. Everything I've heard points to him not being a team leader. Is he a cancer, like AD? No, but he doesn't seem like someone who is going to "get going when the going gets tough" like a Faulk or Welker.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I think randy moss is great........he may not be the best way to emphasize a championship offense, but from what I gather, he is a consummate teammate who simply find fans and media deplorable and most of the time, he is right

 

[pats1]

I think randy moss is great........he may not be the best way to emphasize a championship offense, but from what I gather, he is a consummate teammate who simply find fans and media deplorable and most of the time, he is right

I wouldn't call him a "consummate teammate."

 

[tanked_as_usual]

I wouldn't call him a "consummate teammate."

if you heard his teammates talk about him, you would

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

If whoever is designing and calling plays for the Pays can't figure out ways for Brady to get Randy the ball then shame on him. He should be fired!

 

[NEfan32]

Big games that Moss disappeared...

Do you notice when he disappears, usually either Brady is on his ass or anothe rWR has a big game because the coverage is rolled to Moss.

 

[dhamz]

Is Moss a legitimate deep threat anymore? This isn't October 2007. This is going to be November 2010. There's a big difference.

Of course he is. He was 4th in the league in receptions over 40 yards and 6th in receptions over 20.

If you don't think he is still a legit deep threat you must not think there are more than a couple in the entire NFL.

 

[emoney_33]

A guy that draws triple coverage regularly is invaluable. It's an awful offense that doesn't take advantage of that and make the defense pay.

I'm certain we had triple coverage on Moss and double coverage on Welker at times and either still threw to them, or settled for stupid 10 yard sideline outs to Watson with no YAC. That is just handing the defense their game plan. Insane.

I agree with most of this except that it's not really something you can gameplan out of. As you saw against the Ravens, there are NO other receivers after Moss and Welker who can even get a little separation. We've basically played having only 2 receivers all year. Watson I think would help a lot of he wasn't needed to block so frequently.

Is Moss a legitimate deep threat anymore? This isn't October 2007. This is going to be November 2010. There's a big difference.

He may not have blown up publicly, but everything I've heard points to him having a very delicate personality that has needed constant attention from Brady and Belichick. Everything I've heard points to him not being a team leader. Is he a cancer, like AD? No, but he doesn't seem like someone who is going to "get going when the going gets tough" like a Faulk or Welker.

I can't believe you just asked that question. You do realize we had ONE wide receiver and ONE slot receiver this year and Moss still put up those numbers against double and triple teams. THIS year, not talking about 2007.

And everything you've "heard" that points to his "delicate" personality has 100% come from the media. The same media that desperately try to talk to Moss every single day while he blows them off and makes them feel like crap.

Neither Brady nor Belichick has ever babied anyone's ego, ever. But for some reason you guys want to pretend that they are making some odd exception for "babying" Moss. The actual truth is that Moss is a hard working, smart, and amazing HOF football player. Much like BB he doesn't give a damn what the media portray him as, but people who actually know him know the truth. Enjoy it while you have it, because once it's gone you'll never see a receiver of his caliber play for the Patriots again.

I wouldn't call him a "consummate teammate."

But you aren't his teammate, and his actual teammates would vehemently disagree with you.

 

[Kontradiction]

Is Moss a legitimate deep threat anymore? This isn't October 2007. This is going to be November 2010. There's a big difference.

He may not have blown up publicly, but everything I've heard points to him having a very delicate personality that has needed constant attention from Brady and Belichick. Everything I've heard points to him not being a team leader. Is he a cancer, like AD? No, but he doesn't seem like someone who is going to "get going when the going gets tough" like a Faulk or Welker.

There are not many wide receivers in this league, outside of New England and Troy Brown/Wes Welker, that are team leaders. Just some that I can think of off the top of my head...

1. Hines Ward, PIT
2. Andre Johnson, HOU
3. Donald Driver, GB (very questionable, though)
4. Larry Fitzgerald, ARZ

That's four "team leaders" in the truest sense of the word, outside of New England. One of them is of questionable value when it comes to leadership. That said, expecting Moss to be a team leader and faulting him when he is not is unfair, IMO, based on the fact that there are so few true team leaders (and no, Reggie Wayne is not one of them) at the WR position around the league.

 

[Patspsycho]

But you aren't his teammate, and his actual teammates would vehemently disagree with you.

if you heard his teammates talk about him, you would

When Tom Brady was asked point-blank on Randy Moss's leadership quality in the locker room, he avoided answering it.

Brady: 'Leadership . . . wasn't where it needed to be' - Extra Points - Boston.com

Now I am not knocking Moss as a player, he is a good deep threat and a solid WR who knows the playbook. He is not a leader or a "when the going gets tough, the tough get going".. that is giving him too much props, but at least he doesn't complain like T.O. nor is he a locker room cancer like AD or Springs.

Overall, I will take that. It is what it is.

 

[emoney_33]

When Tom Brady was asked point-blank on Randy Moss's leadership quality in the locker room, he avoided answering it.

Brady: 'Leadership . . . wasn't where it needed to be' - Extra Points - Boston.com

"I have a lot of trust and confidence in Randy," Brady said. "Every team in the league game-plans around him. There weren't a lot of opportunities for him yesterday where he didn't have a safety over the top of him. That's good defense by them."

SO this quote leads you to believe that he's NOT a "consummate teammate". Let's ignore his TEAMMATES voting him captain, and let's ignore every other word spoken about him by his teammates.

Also "consummate teammate" does not equate to "leader". Then again I'm confident Moss leads by example, and we've never heard a single bad word about his work ethic.

 

[emoney_33]

Now I am not knocking Moss as a player, he is a good deep threat and a solid WR who knows the playbook. He is not a leader or a "when the going gets tough, the tough get going".. that is giving him too much props, but at least he doesn't complain like T.O. nor is he a locker room cancer like AD or Springs.

Overall, I will take that. It is what it is.

What the hell does "when the going gets tough, the tough get going" mean? I know all these little cliches sound good, but they really don't mean anything when applied to specific situations.

Moss is the BEST WR in the NFL, and some of you talk about him like he's a middle-of-the-pack receiver. This "leadership" talk is crap, Moss works his arse off in the weight room and in practice and during the game. If you think a player needs to be a cheerleader to be a leader than you are just wrong.

 

[Patspsycho]

Also "consummate teammate" does not equate to "leader". Then again I'm confident Moss leads by example, and we've never heard a single bad word about his work ethic.

Again, I am not knocking Moss, but to call him a "consummate teammate" is an insult to the likes of Bruschi, Vrabel, and Harrison.