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Was this Josh McDaniels best game?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JoeSixPat, Nov 9, 2008.

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  1. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    As many know I've been pretty skeptical of McDaniels for quite some time, but today's game struck me as particularly "well called". Nothing flashy - just perfectly fine tuned to the personnel we had on the field.

    And while I know Buffalo wasn't exactly at full strenght on D, I think you have to look at that 9 minute TD drive and really step back and appreciate some pretty good playcalling. Really, if you go over the other drives in the game, some of the FG drives stack up pretty well also.

    There were definately some big throws and catches - but McDaniels definately deserves some credit for running some plays that got those guys open.

    Cassel may have stepped it up a notch these last few games but I think McDaniels has as well. I suppose some might want to assert that any OC's best game was one of the blowouts - but to me, a game like this, where certain plays simply must be made at certain times and the OC, along with the rest of the team, makes the right calls at the right times count as among the best games, even if the score isn't a blowout.
  2. Rob0729

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    I'm glad McDaniels is getting some well deserved recognition (imagine if Charlie Weis did what he has done this year with Matt Cassel and Ben Jarvus Green Ellis as his QB and RB how much rump swabbery would be going about Weis' genius), but McDaniels has had better games than this most notably the Jacksonville playoff game last year and the game vs. the Vikings two years ago. Those two games had gameplans that could not be improved in anyway and near perfect play calling.

    McDaniels has not gotten the credit he deserves in developing Cassel over the season. It has been his gameplans and play calling that has helped the guy to develop like he has. Many OCs would have just changed the gameplans to accent the QB's strengths even if it hinders the offense and the growth of the QB (see Minnesotta with there constant rollouts of Tarvarius Jackson or Jake Plummer in Denver with the same problem). McDaniels revised the set Patriots offense to not expose Cassel early and has slowly given him more and more leeway as he got confidence. Many of the calls that he made early in the season that people hated are starting to pay off now in the season because it made Cassel a better QB.

    No McDaniels is not an offensive genius, but he is a far better OC than people give him credit for. At least 2/3 of the OCs in the league would have had this offense crumble with Cassel at QB. Is there really any question why Belichick gives far more automony to McDaniels than he does to Dean Pees?
  3. jmt57

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    No, Thursday will be Josh McDaniels best game. :D
  4. Deus Irae

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    McDaniels is an excellent young coordinator and has been putting excellent game plans together for a long time.
  5. PatsDeb

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    Boy I hope so! Then who will they show as the "hero" at the end of the game? While I thought this game plan was good, there was a third & less than a yard in the 1st half where Mickey D called a pass that fell incomplete. That was a head scratcher.
  6. JMarr

    JMarr Rookie

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    Great post. I've done my share of questioning certain play calls, but you are absolutely right, especially regarding Cassel.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2008
  7. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A few things:
    1) QB development goes to the BB and McDaniels.
    2) The offensive game planse are developed by the entire offensive coaching staff. I am not sure if Cassel is in on them the way Brady was, but I think he is, if it is to just hear things he needs to be looking for.
    3) McDaniels is still developing as a OC and he still has his brainfarts (see the 3rd quarter series with 3 straight running plays).
    4) I've questioned McDaniels, but never been a full fledged hater like some people on here.
    5) The only thing that I think the Pats need to do is to start giving Cassel some audible capability. Like, when he sees more than 7 in the box on a play where the Pats have called an inside run. Either change where the run is going or audible to a pass.
  8. Joker

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    for anyone who wants to bash McDaniels....just look at the Eagles game tonight at the end...it could be FAR FAR worse
  9. Rob0729

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    1.) McDaniels deserves a lionshare of credit since he is the OC and QB coach, but you are right that Belichick played an important role
    2.) The OC gets the credit and blame. When people touted Charlie Weis as an offensive genius, there were plenty of assistants who helped him look good.
    3.) McDaniels is clearly not a complete product yet, but he is in his third year as an official head coach. There are far more seasoned OCs that he is far, far better than. As for brain farts, did you watch the end of the Philly/NYG game tonight? Most OCs and Head Coaches have them. McDaniels will probably get better.
    4.) McDaniels deserves questioning at time. I have questioned him. I have questioned Charlie Weis. I have questioned Belichick. No one is perfect especially younger coaches who don't have the valuable experience in certain situations.
    5.) I think it will come in time. The Pats looked to have focused on him working on going through his progressions and having a better command of the pocket. Now that he seems to be well on his way in those areas, they will probably give him more knowledge. I am guessing they do not want to overload Cassel by giving him too much at once. I could be wrong.
  10. Rob0729

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    I thought the same thing. I watch games every week with teams with some of the worst offensive play calling I've seen and wonder if many of the people who bash McDaniels actually watch other games and the attrocious play calling.
  11. jbb9s

    jbb9s Rookie

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    I dont know whose call it is for substitution packages, but seeing Vrabel on the field for consecutive NON-goal-line plays is pretty worrisome. Especially since that was after the Adalius injury.

    If you are defending having Vrabel in on random offensive plays, you are telling me he is a better tight end than Dave Thomas and if that is the case, Thomas needs to be cut if he is outplayed by a OLB.

    Also, remember the play that seemed to trigger a series of injuries for Big Sey - the fullback snaps 3 or 4 years ago.
  12. Deus Irae

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    The problem is that a lot of what people call "play calling" is nothing of the kind. Go take a look at the Bills board from today's loss, like this thread for example:

    A Few Thoughts About The Game - Two Bills Drive Forums

    And you will see the fans of other teams making the same claims of "I knew every play they were going to call", etc...

    Those people are lying, of course. Furthermore, what looks the same to the viewer is often a similar play run from the same formation because something was seen earlier, or some other variant brought forth in the course of the game.

    Another problem is that people complain no matter what happens, if a play is deemed unsuccessful. If a 3rd and long leads the coach to try a draw, the screams are that the team was too conservative. If that same play results in an incomplete pass, the complaint is that a draw would have gotten the yards. Coordinators are always in the cross hairs because, no matter how good a game the O.C. calls, there will always be some plays which didn't succeed, so there will always be someone who thinks that they could have done a better job.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2008
  13. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

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    How in the world can a game in which the offense scores only 20 points be considered an OC's best game? When/if Heath Evans is used more often as BJGE's lead blocker, when/if the coaches don't outsmart themselves with empty backfield formations during runnable down/distances, and when/if they stop tightening their sphincters in the RZ, then we can more likely discuss whether McD has had a "best game evah" moment...and I hope that happens this Thursday night.
  14. Deus Irae

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    And, once again, as if by magic, someone comes along and proves my point.....
  15. Leave No Doubt

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    I think we all forget Josh is(to some degree anyway) a work in progress. Also this year he's had to gameplan around a backup QB who's seen no real NFL playtime yet had to step in for a HOF QB. When Brady went down EVERYTHING changed, and the priority shifted from slamdunking every game to the development of Matt Cassel and his offense.

    Josh deserves a lot of credit this season for the way he (with BB) has nurtured this development. Maybe some of the playcalling has been at the expense of a win here and there but preparing and building the Cassel-led team for a playoff run is more important than anything else. As long as we win enough games to get to the dance...the most important thing is that once we get there the stakes go up, and MattyIce has to be prepped and ready. Josh and BB are steadily (and thus far pretty successfully) working towards that goal.

    If nothing else we should have learned something key from last year...it doesn't matter how you start out, what matters is how you finish.
  16. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    McDaniels is not a BAD offensive coordinator. I can give him credit for a great game yesterday. Going into a game plan with an above average strategy was never his problem. The problem is when things aren't working like he wrote on the blackboard, and he has trouble recognizing or adjusting while in-game. The game plan worked yesterday so there was no need for adjustments in game. Yesterday was a good game though, BJGE is a great runner, he finds small holes and makes the most of them, always churning for more yards.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2008
  17. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    First of all, Charlie Weiss won a Superbowl with a no-name 6th round QB, a free agent castoff in Antowain Smith, an offensive line made up of spare parts, and David Patten and Troy Brown as his receivers. Only Brown was a stud going into that season.

    Second of all, I love how your last sentence admits that McDaniels runs the show mostly on offense, yet whenever something goes wrong offensively you will deny this and point all your fingers at Belichick. McDaniels must be your relative, the way you defend him with such bias.
  18. Rob0729

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    First, I don't remember the Pats going to the Super Bowl with just an offense and no defense or special teams. I am pretty sure the Pats got to the first two Super Bowls with dominant defenses and offenses that didn't make costly mistakes. In fact, the defense got the Pats to the Super Bowl in 2003 despite a very average offense that had a lot of trouble converting third downs.

    Second, I have never said McDaniels does anything alone. Belichick gives him autonomy, but he has a staff and Belichick is still very involved in the offense. In fact, if you look at my response to DaBruinz, I said that Belichick played "an important role" in Cassel's development. Whether an OC succeeds or fails, he has a staff and a head coach who play a role in that success or failure. As I said to DaBruinz, the OC gets the blame or credit for that success or failure. You can say the same thing about Belichick. He cannot succeed unless he has talented coaches supporting him.

    As for bias, your hatred of McDaniels is well documented. You should worry about your on credibility on the subject of the man when you blamed him last week for Dave Thomas' late hit and Jabbar Gaffney's dropped ball. With comments like those, you really shouldn't be questioning other people's biases and credibility now should you?
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2008
  19. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Yet more ad hominem because you cannot debate on the facts.

    I do not have hatred for McDaniels, but I am able to objectively see, over a 3 year body of evidence, that he isn't the offensive God you and others make him out to be. The guy comes in with good game plans, but is horrible with in-game adjustments.

    Rather than brand every McDaniels criticism from anybody as being out of hate, why don't you take a look in the mirror and think about why you get so uppity every time anyone says a negative thing about him? In terms of who is a less objective fan, it is the one who refuses to see any faults with his team whatsoever.
  20. Deus Irae

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    You're another one who confuses opinions with facts. Your opinion is NOT fact.
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