Was this Josh McDaniels best game?

[Rob0729]

Yet more ad hominem because you cannot debate on the facts.

I do not have hatred for McDaniels, but I am able to objectively see, over a 3 year body of evidence, that he isn't the offensive God you and others make him out to be. The guy comes in with good game plans, but is horrible with in-game adjustments.

Rather than brand every McDaniels criticism from anybody as being out of hate, why don't you take a look in the mirror and think about why you get so uppity every time anyone says a negative thing about him? In terms of who is a less objective fan, it is the one who refuses to see any faults with his team whatsoever.

LOL! I would be glad to debate facts with you. Let me know when you actually offer some up because you have been trashing this guy forever without any facts. You compare him to Weis and when I display facts where I showed the Pats averaged 4-5 three an outs per game within 10 of their 16 games in 2003, you ignore it. You just would rather go with the perception that Weis never struggled on offense than the facts that he did. I deal with facts all the time.

I never said that McDaniels was an "offensive God". I said he was an above average OC who still has more learning to go.

You blame him for "sloppy mistakes" like Thomas' late hit and Gaffney's dropped pass last week because that is the OC responsibility, but refuse to credit him with the fact that the Pats as a team have committed an amazing 4 penalties in the last three weeks. There's a fact for you. Of course you won't give McDaniels the credit for the efficiencies of minimizing penalties, but only blame him for the infrequent ones.

I wouldn't be so vigil about defending the guy if there wasn't guys like you and NEM before you who irrationally bash the guy for everything and credit him for next to nothing. I can't wait for you to post for the 30th time that McDaniels is the Gen-X version of Norv Turner (which I don't think it is as big of a diss as you intend it to be since Turner is a very good OC, but horrible head coach).

 

[VJCPatriot]

McDaniels needs to improve his playcalling in the redzone. Even the last TD we scored in the redzone might not have happened if it weren't for a stupid penalty by the Bills giving us some extra downs to burn. He is improving but he has lots of room for more improvement. He's no Charlie Weiss yet. Yeah maybe it's an unfair comparison, but when your standards are championships, that's the guy he has to be measured against.

 

[maverick4]

Actually Norv Turner is not a great offensive coordinator, but it makes sense you would think so since you also think McDaniels is the f'n man.


I sincerely hope McDaniels keeps improving. His best coached game will be one in the future, in a huge playoff game, where his game plan he went into with fell apart, yet we still won because he adjusted tactics and recognized what the other side was doing in the heat of battle. Until then, he still leaves a lot to like.

 

[Rob0729]

Actually Norv Turner is not a great offensive coordinator, but it makes sense you would think so since you also think McDaniels is the f'n man.


I sincerely hope McDaniels keeps improving. His best coached game will be one in the future, in a huge playoff game, where his game plan he went into with fell apart, yet we still won because he adjusted tactics and recognized what the other side was doing in the heat of battle. Until then, he still leaves a lot to like.

I never said Turner was great. I said he was very good. There is a difference. The guy has been pretty successful wherever he goes as an OC. He sucks as a head coach, but the guy actually was able to trick the world into thinking that Alex Smith was going to be an up and coming QB in the league. The fact that he made an awful Smith look pretty good is a testiment to his OC prowes. Let's not forget he actually was able to get something out of Jay Fiedler too. Turner was a far better OC than you give him credit for.

 

[maverick4]

OK fair enough.

But even as an above average OC, Turner is flawed. Same with McDaniels.

McDaniels reminds me a bit of Martz in that his own stubborn-ness or confidence in his game plan going in, holds him back as an OC.

Martz knows how to put up points, but I still wouldn't trust Martz in a huge playoff game. I don't know if that makes sense. But that is pretty much how I feel about McDaniels too. He comes in with good game plans, but if it's not working then we're in trouble.

 

[captain stone]

And, once again, as if by magic, someone comes along and proves my point.....

So, does that mean that you do not agree with any of the points I made?

 

[Deus Irae]

So, does that mean that you do not agree with any of the points I made?

Your arguments were ridiculous, and that's being kind. You actually complained about empty backfield formations with this team. Have you watched this team play a single game of football under Bill Belichick?

The moment you wrote that, you should have hung your head in shame, deleted your post and done wind sprints as a self-punishment for such a ridiculous complaint.

 

[Rob0729]

OK fair enough.

But even as an above average OC, Turner is flawed. Same with McDaniels.

McDaniels reminds me a bit of Martz in that his own stubborn-ness or confidence in his game plan going in, holds him back as an OC.

Martz knows how to put up points, but I still wouldn't trust Martz in a huge playoff game. I don't know if that makes sense. But that is pretty much how I feel about McDaniels too. He comes in with good game plans, but if it's not working then we're in trouble.

Every OC has their flaws. Weis had problems converting third downs in 2003 for example. I still don't see the stubborness to the point you see. I know you buy into the unsubstantiated rumor that McDaniels told brady that he refused to change the gameplan in the second half, but he did. It just didn't work. The guy does make adjustments even though you refuse to believe it. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

I still think this year has disproved the theory that McDaniels was just along for the ride last year and anyone could have done what McDaniels did with the talent he had. I don't think any OC (which includes his staff) could do what McDaniels is doing right now with Cassel at QB and Ben Jarvus Green Ellis as the lead back. Some might, but a lot would have this offense in shambles right now.

McDaniels is a third year OC. I think he is far ahead of the curve compared to other OCs with similiar experience, but still has stuff to learn. He wasn't as savvy as Weis was in 2004, but Weis was an OC for nearly a decade at that point. Weis was stripped of his play calling duties by Parcells in his third year of being an OC with the Jets. So look at the potential McDaniels has.

I feel people want to judge this guy based on the legend of Charlie Weis, not even the actual production of Weis. People say Weis has three Super Bowls, but would he have three Super Bowls if he had the defenses that McDaniels had? I am guessing no. Maybe he wins the Super Bowl last year, but I doubt the Pats end up any better in the other two years.

 

[BadMoFo]

McDaniels is an excellent young coordinator and has been putting excellent game plans together for a long time.

Wait, I thought most people here says he stinks.

 

[Deus Irae]

Wait, I thought most people here says he stinks.

Most people here said Cassel should have been cut, too.

 

[maverick4]

The 2001 defense was horrible, what are you smoking?

Also, our defense the past three years has been dominant and among league leaders.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

What better spot to insert this gem from the National Football Post diner column today:

"New England Quarterback Matt Cassel is a free agent at the end of the year and he is really playing within the system right now. He is more confident and more decisive with the ball. He is growing within the Patriots offense and that is critical.

If I were the GM of the Lions, I would interview Josh McDaniel, the offensive coordinator of the Patriots. He is very impressive to watch coach and when you observe the sidelines of the Patriot games, he has gained the complete confidence of head coach Bill Belichick. A Cassel/McDaniels ticket this off season may be a powerful combination. "

 

[JSn]

What better spot to insert this gem from the National Football Post diner column today:

"New England Quarterback Matt Cassel is a free agent at the end of the year and he is really playing within the system right now. He is more confident and more decisive with the ball. He is growing within the Patriots offense and that is critical.

If I were the GM of the Lions, I would interview Josh McDaniel, the offensive coordinator of the Patriots. He is very impressive to watch coach and when you observe the sidelines of the Patriot games, he has gained the complete confidence of head coach Bill Belichick. A Cassel/McDaniels ticket this off season may be a powerful combination. "

Saw that too. Um... gut feeling is that McDaniels isn't going anywhere. Who would leave the Pats to go to the Lions? LOL

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Saw that too. Um... gut feeling is that McDaniels isn't going anywhere. Who would leave the Pats to go to the Lions? LOL

Only someone who wanted to be a HC/QB in the belichick/bradyless NFC...

I don't think Josh is itching to move yet either, ala Eric, but the point is nationally the view of our OC and QB can be quite different than they tend to be here...

 

[JSn]

Only someone who wanted to be a HC/QB in the belichick/bradyless NFC...

I don't think Josh is itching to move yet either, ala Eric, but the point is nationally the view of our OC and QB can be quite different than they tend to be here...

Hehe, yeah, good point there.

Bench Cassel! Fire McDaniels! Burn the witch! Burn the witch!

 

[maverick4]

Now you are giving legitimacy to what the mainstream media is saying?

You are so two-faced it's not even funny. First you rail on the mediots for their consistently insane analysis when it comes to the Pats, especially the past few years, and now you use that quote to somehow validate your extreme homer bias when it comes to McDaniels.

Nice. Next you'll be pulling some quote from the Gossip Queen and Barometer of Idiocy Peter King to validate your homerism.

 

[captain stone]

...You actually complained about empty backfield formations with this team...

Damn right I do. I would never, ever use an empty backfield exc. in the most obvious passing downs. By using the EB, you have given the defense literally half as much of your playbook with which to concern itself, and you have given your QB nobody to block an unaccounted-for rusher.

 

[Rob0729]

What better spot to insert this gem from the National Football Post diner column today:

"New England Quarterback Matt Cassel is a free agent at the end of the year and he is really playing within the system right now. He is more confident and more decisive with the ball. He is growing within the Patriots offense and that is critical.

If I were the GM of the Lions, I would interview Josh McDaniel, the offensive coordinator of the Patriots. He is very impressive to watch coach and when you observe the sidelines of the Patriot games, he has gained the complete confidence of head coach Bill Belichick. A Cassel/McDaniels ticket this off season may be a powerful combination. "

I think McDaniels will have his pick of almost any position he wants out there potentially even the Dallas job since Jason Garrett's stock has been dropping. I think the only Coordinator who will be hotter as a Head Coaching candidate is Tony Sporano in NY. I can't see him settling on Detriot which is one of the worst positions in sports right after Oakland.

I don't see McDaniels going anywhere though. I think he likes the situation and wants to learn as much as he can from Belichick before he leaves.

 

[Deus Irae]

Damn right I do. I would never, ever use an empty backfield exc. in the most obvious passing downs. By using the EB, you have given the defense literally half as much of your playbook with which to concern itself, and you have given your QB nobody to block an unaccounted-for rusher.

Using the empty backfield has helped this team become the dynasty of the decade, and one of the 2-3 best dynastic teams in the history of the league. Your argument is idiotic because your personal preference regarding such a successful formation has nothing, at all, to do with whether or not McDaniels and Weis were/are good offensive coordinators.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Can we stash the "When and where will Josh go" talk:violent: AND the same goes for the " Thanks for the memories Matt" talk too

Just sit back and enjoy the moment. We've earned it