There is 1 thing wrong with this team

[Zeus]

The fact is that they had a realistic chance to win four of the five games they lost. When you lose by 1 or 3 (or even 7) points, you can't point to any one player or player as the reason. They simply haven't made the plays when they had the opportunity to do so.

It really comes down to a lack of urgency, focus and concentration. The difference between winning and losing is razor thin. Any single play can make the difference. The problem is you don't know when the opportunity to make that play will present itself, so you have to assume that every play represents that opportunity.

Whether or not they know how to win is a semantic discussion that isn't all that meaningful to me. What's important is that they haven't won. They've been close, but that hasn't been good enough. No point in assigning blame -everybody has to play (and coach) better.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

No difference at all. The players who've won before know how to win. New players need to be taken in to the circle. That's just a reality. This team has a boatload of players who've been, and in many cases won, the Super Bowl. Claiming the team doesn't know how to win, when I was able to list 19 Super Bowl participants without even trying, is a cop out and just plain wrong.

yeah. i mean i don't get it. i know that people are very disappointed in how the season has evolved, myself included. but saying that the explanation is that this collection of professionals, headed by a hof qb and a hof hc, doesn't know how to win is, i don't know, i just don't get it.

there have been some on field gaffes, some bad coaching decisions, a couple of bad calls and maybe even some bad luck. but all of those things are part of the game. if the Faulk spot is one yard farther up field, if ghost's kick goes through in Denver and we're 9--3, then do the same players know how to win? But if Leodis McKelvin doesn't run the ball out in the opener and if Clayton catches the pass against the Ravens and we're 5--7 are the same players then just a bad team?

 

[PatsFanSince74]

The fact is that they had a realistic chance to win four of the five games they lost. When you lose by 1 or 3 (or even 7) points, you can't point to any one player or player as the reason. They simply haven't made the plays when they had the opportunity to do so.

It really comes down to a lack of urgency, focus and concentration. The difference between winning and losing is razor thin. Any single play can make the difference. The problem is you don't know when the opportunity to make that play will present itself, so you have to assume that every play represents that opportunity.

Whether or not they know how to win is a semantic discussion that isn't all that meaningful to me. What's important is that they haven't won. They've been close, but that hasn't been good enough. No point isn assigning blame -everybody has to play (and coach better).

Now, that's tangible and I can relate to what you're saying. "lack of urgency, focus and concentration."

After the dust settles on the season, those may indeed turn out to be the difference between a Number Four seed and early playoff exit and a number two seed and long playoff run.

For now, I just don't know. When Brees, Flacco, Manning and even effing Chad Henne move the ball down the field at will at key times, though, I'm not ready to say they are the reason for the season not being what we hoped it might be.

 

[thodoks]

I'm skeptical of any argument that attributes success or failure to one - and only one - cause. The truth is rarely so nice and neat.

This instance is no different.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I'm skeptical of any argument that attributes success or failure to one - and only one - cause. The truth is rarely so nice and neat.

This instance is no different.

:agree:

10 char

 

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

I think thats way too general a statement. Does that imply that the Dolphins, Jets, Broncos, and Saints "Know how to win?"

 

[Don_the_patfan]

Am going to be blasted for this but it is just my opinion.

Our problems are too many at this point to be solved this season.

From lack of pass rush, from busts like Wheatley(2nd round pick) and ineffectiveness of Wilhite to the non playing of Brace(2nd round pick) to the ineffectiveness of Burgess who we got for a 3rd. To the horrible play calling on D to the uncreative play calling on O. In addition to the 'we don't play very hard at times' from Brady, to Faulk and other players from our championship years refused to be in front of the camera yesterday. This team has unresolved issues in week 12? We are simply beyond BB's help at this point the only thing we can do is figure out who we want in this locker room next year. Even with that I am concerned because we extending contracts for scrubs like Alexander and Kaczur( who deserves to be benched) yet we still have to sign Wilfork, Mankins, Ghost, etc,.

Our mistakes in the draft and our wrong choices in FA in addition to the loss of coaches have finally caught up to us. It's time to clean house and stop the in-job training.

Solution: Bring Weis back to bring the creative play calling and provide the kick in the ass that Brady may need here and there when he makes rookie mistakes in the end zone. With Weis taking care of the offense BB can take over the playcalling on D or hire Romeo. Yes Kraft needs to open up his wallet and pay the coordinators some major coin. Yes I said it.

And start paying the heart of this team and that means Wilfork, Mankins and Ghost are musts and let the players who are not giving it their all go. On top of that use ALL THE DRAFT PICKS. With holes at ILB,OLB,DT,CB, RB etc, you need all of them.

It's time to rebuild this team with good coaches and players who give it their all out there.

Flame away..

 

[Metaphors]

Throwing out the TEN and NO games since they are outliers (totally different than any other game either team has played, so the results tell you nothing) and here are the defensive point totals so far at the half-way point of the 4th quarter:

17, 16, 10, 21, 10, 7, 17, 21, 14, 19

Take away the return TDs for BUF and BAL and the numbers look like this:

10, 16, 10, 14, 10, 7, 17, 21, 14, 19

Since home games don't seem to be an issue, just look at the roadies:

16, 10, 7, 21, 19

If I had told you at the beginning of the season that the Pats would be sitting at the 7:50 mark of the 4th quarter with those points allowed, you would have been thrilled. Absolutely overjoyed. So I agree with the OP that the Pats don't know how to close out games in the final 7+ minutes. So what are the issues:

1) Offense delivering the knockout blow. Outside of the 1st two weeks when the offense was still knocking off the rust, the offense could have closed out every game except NO with a single well-executed play late.

2) Coming up small on defense at a key moment. AD letting the tipped interception deep in Jets territory drop to the ground. The interception knocked up in the air and caught by Gaffney in Denver. 4th and 6 against the Fins. 3 wins pissed away during 15 seconds of clock time.

3) Snake-bit by officials on the road. The Meriweather roughing-then-taunting penalty against Denver. The Butler PI and 4th-n-2 spot against Indy. The Aiken offensive PI on 4th-n-3 against the Fins. And these are just the inexcusably bad calls.

I'm really not worried about #1 assuming people are healthy for the stretch run. Watson, Taylor, Edelman and Vollmer will make a big difference in finishing games.

Assuming the Pats can score 28+ a game and execute on their 4th quarter drives, I'm also not worried about #2. The Pats defense is young and talented enough to keep the opposing score reasonable...as long as they aren't asked to carry the team for the whole 4th quarter. They just aren't good enough at taking the ball away yet, so when teams need to score late (using all 4 downs) the Pats defense is going to struggle.

#3 is a serious worry. On the road, the Pats have played themselves into a major disadvantage. The officials have the narrative in their brains now that the Pats offense struggles on the road (holding and offensive PI calls) and the defense can't stop teams with the game on the line (PI and illegal contact penalties). That is a full touchdown liability that the Pats carry on their backs heading in the playoffs, which is tough. Going into SD or Indy with a target of 35+ points as a target to win may be too much to overcome.

 

[aluminum seats]

#3 is a serious worry. On the road, the Pats have played themselves into a major disadvantage. The officials have the narrative in their brains now that the Pats offense struggles on the road (holding and offensive PI calls) and the defense can't stop teams with the game on the line (PI and illegal contact penalties). That is a full touchdown liability that the Pats carry on their backs heading in the playoffs, which is tough. Going into SD or Indy with a target of 35+ points as a target to win may be too much to overcome.

Excellent point, and one not brought up enough--the psychological component of "bad" officiating. There are many calls each game that can be called or not without anyone really complaining too much....that is, they can be justified. How a team is perceived plays a role in this, similar to good hitters getting the benefit of the doubt when they lay off a close pitch.

One mitigating factor going into the playoffs is this--the Pats will win their last four games convincingly.

 

[mgteich]

We're going to learn how to put games away by playoff time?

Before this year, Belichick's lost exactly one game when we were leading at the half. Now it's five. If we didn't learn by now, why should anyone believe that the results will be the same after four more weeks?

They dont know how to win.
They have played well enough to be AT LEAST 9-2.
They just are failing to make one key play (out of many chances) to put games away.
Good News: It is a learned trait, and can still be learned by playoff time
Bad News: It is the most important trait in a champion and so far we lack it

 

[stcjones]

It's just a statement of fact. Team's identities evolve all the time. Now what you could say is that there are players on the team who have won before and so you are confident that will be able to regain that characteristic. Key there would be Brady, who for all his gaudy numbers this year, hasn't made the plays necessary to win several times. I don't doubt his ability to recapture his past form in that regard, but he doesn't have it yet.

So I suppose you could say that this team has forgotten how to win, but I don't see that being a particularly interesting distinction.

It's all about chemistry.....and it comes down to the leaders on a team. To post guys that have "been to a SB" and "know how to win" is asinine. It comes down to how the new guys gel with the established vets and there have to be leaders out there....like Bruschi, Seyour, Harrison, and Vrabel.......oh wait a minute....they're all gone......Now you have guys who don't give a sh#t like Thomas and Burgess, light and Kaczur......and there is NO team chemistry.

It's like starting a new job and you go in the first day and a few guys that have worked there for several years say "What the he** did you come here to work for??? This place sucks".....and automatically your morale goes down......and many times people fall into that same "who gives a sh#t mentality"........That is where this team is now.....no leadership + declining chemistry + LESS PLAYERS DRINKING THE F'IN KOOL AID and not respecting BB......= NO TEAM.......

 

[IcyPatriot]

I think there is way too much over analysis of this team. The offensive line is struggling to make it through the game (strongly) due to injuries. The inability of the line to play effective in the 2nd half has led to the defense being overworked in the 2nd half which leads to errors here and there.

If the O-Line was healthier the rotations would be better and the defense would get more more rest in the 2nd half ... that's 90% IMO. The rest is nit pick stuff that is easy to see the day after a game.

Also ... I think it's critical for a unit to have sideline time during games. Our young secondary could use some sideline time to be coached and look at the pictures of the game. They are on the field most of the 2nd half ... no coaching time available. I think it's a big domino effect here that could well swing to the good with the return of Vollmer and a healthier Neal.

 

[patsfan-1982]

i can't say this them dose not know how to win like OP said they do have 7 wins

and they dont need more leadership don't get me worng seau is one of the best LB to ever play this game but he just can't play this game any more and as a player you can't lead be from the side lines i have a coach for that


ray lewis is a great leader but he dose not till he's player how to do it he shows them

and that's what vrabel and teddy b and so on did they lead there team will they where makeing plays

brady did not win 3 rings on he's own he just did a nuff to get the lead and let the D win it

the pats have never won a super bowl in a year where the D was off it's game

not that this year is not over they can still make a playoff run but you will see BB sign trade for or draft a whole lot of players on D next year

 

[brady et al fan]

I dunno. I think that's way too hypothetical. That might or might not be one among a whole range of potential explanations for why the Pats are where they are (all of which have been beaten to death here since around 4:00 yesterday afternoon ). Personally, I've taken the view both last week and today that I don't even want to think about them until the end of the season.

For example, if we take away the Leodis McKelvin brain fart in the Buffalo game and the Mark Clayton dropped pass in the Ravens game, we could also say that they have played poorly enough to be 5--7. What's the point of saying they might be 9--2 or 5--7? To me, those are each vacuous discussions.

The bottom line is that the Pats are 7--5 in a so-so or weak division and have generally played like that, not winning a single game on the road and only beating one team that's above .500 this morning.

But, I do agree that can all change. I still say the Pats are the one AFC team that nobody wants to play in January and I ain't counting them out of nothing.

How you come to your last conclusion is beyond me. You spent most of your post making a case for mediocrity, which I agree with, but then end by saying the Pats are the one AFC team nobody wants to play? Why is that exactly?

 

[wilfork is beastin']

brady did not win 3 rings on he's own he just did a nuff to get the lead and let the D win it

the pats have never won a super bowl in a year where the D was off it's game

the defense blew a 2 TD lead in the 4th quarter of SB XXXVI and gave up 30+ points to Jake Delhomme in SB XXXVIII. The defense was a major factor in getting to the Super Bowl, and was the main reason they won their first one, but in the end it was Brady who lead the team to victory when it mattered most

 

[PatsFanSince74]

How you come to your last conclusion is beyond me. You spent most of your post making a case for mediocrity, which I agree with, but then end by saying the Pats are the one AFC team nobody wants to play? Why is that exactly?

simple. because i think it's true. i dispute the premise of the thread that this team "doesn't know how to win." this team has played like a 7--5 team, but that's for a whole bunch of reasons that are very tangible, all of which have been rehearsed almost indefinitely on this board this week and none of which, in my opinion, couldn't be turned around.

in January, all bets are off. i'm pretty sure if you asked the Colts the one team they don't want to have to beat to get to Miami, it would be the Pats, whatever their record.

 

[eagle eye]

I'll tell you what we are missing and I'm leaving out trades that happened which were a mistake imo.

The D doesn't seem to have leaders, the guys that are in your face when you make a bad play and again when you make a good play. How many guys do you see turn to the crowd in Foxboro and wave their arms for more noise. You need guys that know how to pump players.

One guy makes a mistake and he has to be chewed to bits for it, another guy you have to tell to forget about it that the next play is a new day. If a guy apologises for a mistake I would make him give me 50 on the spot and tell him I never want to hear that again. I'd explain to him that apologies make a team weak.
We need to be fired up at all times.

Even on offense I see this as a problem. If Moss is overthrown he kind of turns as if its not his fault. I personally think he should get in Brady's face and tell him not to miss him next time.
Welker is so impressive and I'd like to see him pump his fists everytime he gets up after a catch and let everybody see it.

Thats what I haven't seen enough of this year.

I've never coached football but I have coached and I'm on fire for the whole game and I expect everybody else to be as well.

 

[patsfan-1982]

I'll tell you what we are missing and I'm leaving out trades that happened which were a mistake imo.

The D doesn't seem to have leaders, the guys that are in your face when you make a bad play and again when you make a good play. How many guys do you see turn to the crowd in Foxboro and wave their arms for more noise. You need guys that know how to pump players.

One guy makes a mistake and he has to be chewed to bits for it, another guy you have to tell to forget about it that the next play is a new day. If a guy apologises for a mistake I would make him give me 50 on the spot and tell him I never want to hear that again. I'd explain to him that apologies make a team weak.
We need to be fired up at all times.

Even on offense I see this as a problem. If Moss is overthrown he kind of turns as if its not his fault. I personally think he should get in Brady's face and tell him not to miss him next time.
Welker is so impressive and I'd like to see him pump his fists everytime he gets up after a catch and let everybody see it.

Thats what I haven't seen enough of this year.

I've never coached football but I have coached and I'm on fire for the whole game and I expect everybody else to be as well.

i dont see how one grown man screaming in a other grown man's face will make this team win on the road ?


do you know what realy motivate's a NFL player MONEY and there are a lot of player that will be FA next year and a lot of low round pick's still playing on there rookie contracts and if millions of dollers can't motivate them to play harder then screaming in there face wont

 

[stoertebeker]

i think it looks like the star of bill belichick is fading. all the years he did the right calls at the right time, but this year, he and his coaching crew made mistakes when the y call the moves. most of his assistant coaches are unexperienced. the last years he had excellent assistant coaches but time after time they went out for higher duties at other teams, so the coaching stuff has to be rebuilded. that dind't work in one year so we have to be patient. i don't think that the players are full. and one more thing that is wrong, we have too many injured starters even in the o-line so this must be a year for rebuilding and focussing on the future.
just my 2 cents

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Its lost its MoJo.

Agreed. the magic is gone.

I'd buy the argument that they don't know how to win but many of these games have come down to brady needing to complete some passes for a few first downs to ice the game and he hasn't been able to do that.

who has more experience and knows how to win more than Tom Brady?